Ray Lewis...greatest of all time.

[Bengalzona]

Some names I haven't seen discussed here:

Mike Singletary
Jack Hamm
Ray Nitschke

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

Some names I haven't seen discussed here:

Mike Singletary
Jack Hamm
Ray Nitschke

The talk is about the beast in the middle, Ham was an outside backer... god damn you're stupid.

[Slappy from New Haven]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

**** Butkus was not better than Ray Lewis by any measure. There isn't one thing he did better. The talking heads that say he's better are just nostalgic morons who are remembering stories their daddies told them.
It's the same way in baseball. People want to give the edge to older players. It feels good for some people that it was "the good old days" but in reality Butkus couldn't hold Ray's jock. Football wasn't even fully integrated at that time either.

Butkus, in his day, was one mean nasty SOB.. What Ray did was take the Linebacker position and redifined it and took it to a new level..

I previously laid out all the measurements.

Ray was the best MLB in the league only half his career **** was the best every one but his rookie year

[Bmoreblitz]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

I previously laid out all the measurements.

Ray was the best MLB in the league only half his career **** was the best every one but his rookie year

Ok but still both at their BEST Butkus doesn't compare....or come close.

[Bengalzona]

Originally Posted by Woodley

god damn you're stupid.

And yet I bring intelligence to a thread full of Steeler fans such as you.

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

And yet I bring intelligence to a thread full of Steeler fans such as you.

Lol...was J/K... guess you missed the

[Slappy from New Haven]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

Ok but still both at their BEST Butkus doesn't compare....or come close.

At Butkus' best he was the best MLB the league all but one year of his career, his rookie year

At Rays best he was dominant a little better than half the time.

Being the best is being the best when you play ..........not half the time.

Ray was a product of who he had playing in front of him. When the Ravens front line was great so was he. When they weren't he was average.

**** never had that luxury, he was the best all the time

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

At Butkus' best he was the best MLB the league all but one year of his career, his rookie year

At Rays best he was dominant a little better than half the time.

Being the best is being the best when you play ..........not half the time.

Ray was a product of who he had playing in front of him. When the Ravens front line was great so was he. When they weren't he was average.

**** never had that luxury, he was the best all the time

That is completely inaccurate. Ray Lewis made plays on a regular basis that Butkus couldn't even make against far inferior athletes than what Ray has played against. Ray Lewis' last five years of 17 haven't been as good as the first 12 but he's probably still better right now than Butkus was at his best.

So no, Lewis wasn't just the best "half the time" and he wasn't just a product of his DLine either. That's ludicrous. You can't make the plays he made just cuz your DL is good. C'mon man.

[Bengalzona]

Originally Posted by Woodley

Lol...was J/K... guess you missed the

I thought that was sexual innuendo!

[SunsetBengal]

Muhammad Ali was also the greatest of all time.

Did you ever see him 5 years after the ring..

[Slappy from New Haven]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

That is completely inaccurate. Ray Lewis made plays on a regular basis that Butkus couldn't even make against far inferior athletes than what Ray has played against. Ray Lewis' last five years of 17 haven't been as good as the first 12 but he's probably still better right now than Butkus was at his best.

So no, Lewis wasn't just the best "half the time" and he wasn't just a product of his DLine either. That's ludicrous. You can't make the plays he made just cuz your DL is good. C'mon man.

What plays did Butkus not make? Far inferior athletes? Why are the inferior? Because they didn't **** down HGH? or were not marketed better than today's NFL?

If Ray was and all Pro 59% of his career it is impossible to say he is better than someone who is better 88% of his career.

Saying Ray is better now than Butkus at his best is ill informed and reaching at its' best

[gmdino]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

Muhammad Ali was also the greatest of all time.

Did you ever see him 5 years after the ring..

Rocky Marciano was the greatest of all time.

Ali called *himself* the greatest.

Great boxer. Not the greatest boxer. but hype and reputation goes a long way.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

What plays did Butkus not make? Far inferior athletes? Why are the inferior? Because they didn't **** down HGH? or were not marketed better than today's NFL?

If Ray was and all Pro 59% of his career it is impossible to say he is better than someone who is better 88% of his career.

Saying Ray is better now than Butkus at his best is ill informed and reaching at its' best

Even the highlights I see of Butkus he looks like a guy who be a plodding tomato can in today's game.

All Pro schmall pro. From what I've seen of both guys, Ray is way better. I will give you that I've not seen nearly as much of Butkus though and there's a good chance I'm selling him short, I'll admit that.

But you can't just say player A was all pro for a higher percentage of his career than player B so player A is better. There is definitely more to it than that.

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

I thought that was sexual innuendo!

Then I would have used

[Bengalzona]

Originally Posted by Woodley

Then I would have used

Nice one!

I hadn't seen that one before,

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

Nice one!

I hadn't seen that one before,

I hadn't either...until I googled "smiley porn" lol

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by gmdino

Rocky Marciano was the greatest of all time.

Ali called *himself* the greatest.

Great boxer. Not the greatest boxer. but hype and reputation goes a long way.

If you ask me, Ray is not better than Lawrence Taylor. Just my opinion.

[gmdino]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

If you ask me, Ray is not better than Lawrence Taylor. Just my opinion.

There were at least a couple that were as athletic...or more so. Some played for bad teams. Some didn't play as long. None got the hype or the media push that Ray got.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

If you ask me, Ray is not better than Lawrence Taylor. Just my opinion.

Taylor was the first dominant pass rushing OLB and probably the best ever. Rey Lewis is arguably the best MLB of all time. Apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by gmdino

There were at least a couple that were as athletic...or more so. Some played for bad teams. Some didn't play as long. None got the hype or the media push that Ray got.

He got the hype cuz his performance was extraordinary, whether you like it or not, whether you think he killed someone or not, whether you think he should have ratted out his friends or not.....none of that has anything to do with why he gets the hype. He gets the hype because his play demanded it.

[Bmoreblitz]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

I previously laid out all the measurements.

Ray was the best MLB in the league only half his career **** was the best every one but his rookie year

You didn't lay down ish!! You showed NO STATS to back your HORRIBLE claim.

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

At Butkus' best he was the best MLB the league all but one year of his career, his rookie year

At Rays best he was dominant a little better than half the time.

Being the best is being the best when you play ..........not half the time.

Ray was a product of who he had playing in front of him. When the Ravens front line was great so was he. When they weren't he was average.

**** never had that luxury, he was the best all the time

Things I see in Ray that I can't see evidence of in Butkus:

1. The ability to lift those around him to a higher level of play (Butkus' teams had a record of 48-74-4 (.397 winning percentage vs. .568for Ray). Since 2000, Lewis' teams have a career winning percentage of .591). If I try to do the same for Butkus, the best I can do is break off his first 4 seasons where the Bears played .527 ball.

2. Post-season success (0-0 vs. 15-8). The Ravens' 15-8 playoff record over Lewis' 17 seasons is excellent but doesn't even begin to tell the story.

3. Longevity at a high level.

I don't think any one of these alone would be an indication that Butkus wasn't as great as Ray, but in the face of all 3, I'd have to have evidence that Butkus was a significantly superior individual contributor to believe he was as good as Ray in terms of his effect on the team or his defense. None of their relative awards, honors, or the stats provide a compelling argument that Butkus was better at his peak, let alone for his career.


You just keep rambling with NOTHING to back it up. False HGH claims is your ONLY arguement?!?!? Prove it then. Or just stop embarrassing yourself.

[gmdino]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Taylor was the first dominant pass rushing OLB and probably the best ever. Rey Lewis is arguably the best MLB of all time. Apples and oranges.



He got the hype cuz his performance was extraordinary, whether you like it or not, whether you think he killed someone or not, whether you think he should have ratted out his friends or not.....none of that has anything to do with why he gets the hype. He gets the hype because his play demanded it.

Is that why Tebow gets all that hype?

Sometimes the media just gets on one guy's jock and doesn't let go. Yes, Ray put up some numbers to back it up for the start of his career. But I think he got too much credit on a team of good players.

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by Woodley

The talk is about the beast in the middle, Ham was an outside backer... god damn you're stupid.

The title says best line backer of all time, so he is not as stupid as you, my vote is,





























































































Rey Mali-goofy

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

You didn't lay down ish!! You showed NO STATS to back your HORRIBLE claim.


Things I see in Ray that I can't see evidence of in Butkus:

1. The ability to lift those around him to a higher level of play (Butkus' teams had a record of 48-74-4 (.397 winning percentage vs. .568for Ray). Since 2000, Lewis' teams have a career winning percentage of .591). If I try to do the same for Butkus, the best I can do is break off his first 4 seasons where the Bears played .527 ball.

2. Post-season success (0-0 vs. 15-8). The Ravens' 15-8 playoff record over Lewis' 17 seasons is excellent but doesn't even begin to tell the story.

3. Longevity at a high level.

I don't think any one of these alone would be an indication that Butkus wasn't as great as Ray, but in the face of all 3, I'd have to have evidence that Butkus was a significantly superior individual contributor to believe he was as good as Ray in terms of his effect on the team or his defense. None of their relative awards, honors, or the stats provide a compelling argument that Butkus was better at his peak, let alone for his career.


You just keep rambling with NOTHING to back it up. False HGH claims is your ONLY arguement?!?!? Prove it then. Or just stop embarrassing yourself.

Thats baloney...ray was on a rat team already with a damn good defense around him. Lambert was on a team with a great defense around him.

Butkus WAS the Bear defense period.
Put ray on that Bear team and lets see how well he "lifts" those bums around him...riiight, lift this lol.

[Beaker]

Lambert was a pansy with a tough guy act. No wonder you relate to him woodley....story of your life.

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Beaker

Lambert was a pansy with a tough guy act. No wonder you relate to him woodley....story of your life.

Lol... says a puppet.