Realistic view of the receiving corp

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Real TEs block. Yes it should be practiced and no Gresham is not as bad a blocker as you make him out to be. Nothing like picking one of the best blocking TEs ever to compare him to. That would be like comparing the receiving ability of Kelly to Gonzalez.

I NEVER said Gresham was a bad blocker, although others have. I said Bengals coaching have used Kelly as a crutch that should have never been allowed to go on as long as it did. Either your tackle can pass block or you need a new tackle. That is part of mu beef,if you cant follow my train of thought. Gresham should have never been expected to become Kelly 2! But Bratkowski, Marvin, and now Gruden are doing the same thing.Every once in a while blocking DE's, ok. Doing it as much Gresham does it? A huge waste of a valuable play maker! Andre needs to block his man!

* since I believe that Gresham will move on after his rookie deal ( he has a 5 year one)-I would not mind picking up
Travis Kelce




Ian

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by mrcrockj

Back to the original thoughts. We need a playmaker to add into the mix. If we're going to try and run the WCO we need someone that can catch the ball and do something with it.

Green is the true elite #1.

Sanu is a keeper for now, unless he changes my mind. He has a spot in the red zone and third down.

Hawkins is the gadget slot guy.

Jones is a great depth WR. Can step in and give guys a blow from time to time.

What we need is a WR that can go deep, and catch the short ball and do something with it. My pick is Cordarelle Patterson. He's the guy that will make the offense better. Get a speed RB and we'll be good.

We will not pick a WR in round 1, and this year seems to me like a down year for WR's.

I like the Hartline idea more and more if Miami is stupid enough to not resign him...

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

I NEVER said Gresham was a bad blocker, although others have. I said Bengals coaching have used Kelly as a crutch that should have never been allowed to go on as long as it did. Either your tackle can pass block or you need a new tackle. That is part of mu beef,if you cant follow my train of thought. Gresham should have never been expected to become Kelly 2! But Bratkowski, Marvin, and now Gruden are doing the same thing.Every once in a while blocking DE's, ok. Doing it as much Gresham does it? A huge waste of a valuable play maker! Andre needs to block his man!

Ian

They use Charles as the blocking TE now. Note blocking was his weakness coming out of college.

The penalties and dropped passes are also part of the Gresham package. You also should break his run blocking and pass blocking up.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Joelist

Really what we are missing is exactly what other teams showed off this weekend - possession receivers. Note that both the 49ers and Ravens have receivers who may not be burners but they catch the ball reliably and get in the right spots to make plays. If you want to see what happens to an offense with a big time playmaking WR but no possession receivers to compliment them, look at us and look at Detroit.

Give us someone else to put out there next to AJ who we can rely on to catch the ball and be in the correct spot and the offense will run a lot smoother.

And they both that have a QB that hits them in thre numbers and not 3 feet over their heads.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

I NEVER said Gresham was a bad blocker, although others have. I said Bengals coaching have used Kelly as a crutch that should have never been allowed to go on as long as it did. Either your tackle can pass block or you need a new tackle. That is part of mu beef,if you cant follow my train of thought. Gresham should have never been expected to become Kelly 2! But Bratkowski, Marvin, and now Gruden are doing the same thing.Every once in a while blocking DE's, ok. Doing it as much Gresham does it? A huge waste of a valuable play maker! Andre needs to block his man!

* since I believe that Gresham will move on after his rookie deal ( he has a 5 year one)-I would not mind picking up
Travis Kelce




Ian

Carefull Ian
when ever I speak of drafting a Bearcat player, or talk about one I get my tail end roasted and handed to me. Ialso think Kelce would be a good pickup.

[WhoDeyWho]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.

I agree. I see Sanu as a Hines Ward-type WR. Tough and gritty. The fact that he can throw the ball and line up at RB makes him all the more dynamic. Notice how our offense dropped off when he went down.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.

I think Sanu would make a solid #2 but an excellent #3 just as soon as we get the dude in my sig.

I want Hartline as much as you I think. Then we can hopefully draft players good enough to come in and be quality starters at RB, LB and/or SS with our first couple of picks.

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by old man

Carefull Ian
when ever I speak of drafting a Bearcat player, or talk about one I get my tail end roasted and handed to me. I also think Kelce would be a good pickup.

Myself critic' would be the Bengals have not really effectively used a receiving TE since Rodney Holman (we Zentih'd with Dan Ross) after that we had Tony McGee who truly had the hands of stone-and then it got really bad! Best guy was Matt Schobel who left for a team that used the TE as a receiver. I really think unless things change Gresham will do the same, and so could Orson Charles who us a receiving type TE as well, and I would like to see him a get some more playing time to see what he can and cant do. Gresham is signed through 2015 and Charles 2016. So I doubt Bengals will look for another TE as High as Kelce will go 2or 3 round.

Ian

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by finso

Most around here believe a true "legit" probowl #2 receiver would take this team to the promise land.
There are some really good ones on other teams.
My question is..can you name 5 teams complete core of WR's/TE's you would trade for the Bengals complete core of WR's/TE's ?
And no you can't keep A.J.
If you can name more than 5, please do.

Pats
Packers
Steelers (2012 with Wallace)
Broncos
Giants
Cowboys
Falcons

Equal to Bengals -
Ravens
Texans
Colts
Saints
Lions

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

Myself critic' would be the Bengals have not really effectively used a receiving TE since Rodney Holman (we Zentih'd with Dan Ross) after that we had Tony McGee who truly had the hands of stone-and then it got really bad! Best guy was Matt Schobel who left for a team that used the TE as a receiver. I really think unless things change Gresham will do the same, and so could Orson Charles who us a receiving type TE as well, and I would like to see him a get some more playing time to see what he can and cant do. Gresham is signed through 2015 and Charles 2016. So I doubt Bengals will look for another TE as High as Kelce will go 2or 3 round.

Ian

Tony McGee was arguably BETTER than Holman.

And that's a fact: if he had a better supporting cast around him, just imagine what he could've done.

Hands of stone good one

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Tony McGee was arguably BETTER than Holman.

And that's a fact: if he had a better supporting cast around him, just imagine what he could've done.

Hands of stone good one

Pro's didnt think so, Holman went to the probowl 3 times, Mcgee never went.

Here are their stats:

Holman: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...H/HolmRo00.htm

Mcgee: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/McGeTo00.htm

This comment was plainly silly.....

Ian

[bengalfan74]

I believe this teams has like 4 or 5 key needs, and number 1 among them may well be a vet #2 WR. We need someone who can step in and play....preiod !

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by bengalfan74

I believe this teams has like 4 or 5 key needs, and number 1 among them may well be a vet #2 WR. We need someone who can step in and play....preiod !

Not for me, number 1-difference maker at RB & I am on record to unload every back not named Ben Javis Green-Ellis! Extremely tired of backs who cant break a long one for a TD, cant stay on the field, or wont be used for what ever reason by the coaching staff. Yes-I would like hartline to come here. Miami would be likely to try to keep him however since they let their #1 receiver go last year and the outcry in South FLA is quite loud and pi**y.

Ian

[bengalfan74]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

Not for me, number 1-difference maker at RB & I am on record to unload every back not named Ben Javis Green-Ellis! Extremely tired of backs who cant break a long one for a TD, cant stay on the field, or wont be used for what ever reason by the coaching staff. Yes-I would like hartline to come here. Miami would be likely to try to keep him however since they let their #1 receiver go last year and the outcry in South FLA is quite loud and pi**y.

Ian

Oh there's no doubt a speed back that's a true game changer is also a must ! We have to be able to get productive runs on a fairly regular basis for Andy to thrive.

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by bengalfan74

Oh there's no doubt a speed back that's a true game changer is also a must ! We have to be able to get productive runs on a fairly regular basis for Andy to thrive.

Screen game has gotta get better, same for passes to the backs-This is where I see Sanu. His size and Harmon's are similar-same with Preston Pearson. Some here think I am ready to just waive Sanu-furthest thing from my mind! I want him to succeed! Same for Marvin Jones, and Andrew Hawkins, Jermaine Gresham and Orson Charles, Whalen and any guy who wears stripes.

I do not look at out guys through rose colored glasses-Hawkins is small, Sanu will never beat press coverage lining up as WR, Jones is very raw, Whalen has not had enough reps to see what he has.Gresham needs to be coached up better, and Charles needs more playing time and touches as well. BJGE tried his best ,and will always try his best, but he is not an elusive back capable of creating huge plays of screens, draws , trap, circle routes...

Some of this is Dalton who frankly is on my *hit list for myiard of reasons, some is on Gruden where was the creativity we love from him? It ends with Marvin who has got to get over run the ball play defense win the game 10-7...

Ian

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

Screen game has gotta get better, same for passes to the backs-This is where I see Sanu. His size and Harmon's are similar-same with Preston Pearson. Some here think I am ready to just waive Sanu-furthest thing from my mind! I want him to succeed! Same for Marvin Jones, and Andrew Hawkins, Jermaine Gresham and Orson Charles, Whalen and any guy who wears stripes.

I do not look at out guys through rose colored glasses-Hawkins is small, Sanu will never beat press coverage lining up as WR, Jones is very raw, Whalen has not had enough reps to see what he has.Gresham needs to be coached up better, and Charles needs more playing time and touches as well. BJGE tried his best ,and will always try his best, but he is not an elusive back capable of creating huge plays of screens, draws , trap, circle routes...

Some of this is Dalton who frankly is on my *hit list for myiard of reasons, some is on Gruden where was the creativity we love from him? It ends with Marvin who has got to get over run the ball play defense win the game 10-7...

Ian

Ahhhh......the ole rose colored glasses comments.

So please explain why Sanu will never beat press coverage as a WR. Please do not refer to the tired collegiate scouting reports which he, Geno, and MJ have made look silly.

[coachmcneil71]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.

Sanu was coming on strong and just missed his first 3 TD game before his injury. I would love for the team to have another first round talent on the otherside of AJ and it seems the best way to do that within the financial boundries of the new CBA is to draft one early.
With that said I am against drafting a WR early this season. There are no AJ Greens or J.Jones in this draft imo. I would like to see the team grab T.King or someone akin in the middle rounds. I am not sold on the UT WR's quite yet. Now that may change come combine time but right now I would like to see the O-line,Safety, and LB corps addressed first. I am not sold on Cook,Robinson, or Boling. Now I now that the team gets Wharton back and hopefully that will help the o-line some but personally I like BJGE,Peerman, and Boom going forward at RB.Not oppossed to the team grabing a speedy back but I just don't see it as a MAJOR need with a vet implace that is coming off of a 1000 yard season in his first year with the team.
I like Sanu and Jones going into their SECOND season...just saying!
Patterson of UT does have potential at WR though.I want to see how the combine goes first.
I mean I like J.Jones as much as the next guy but realistically the Falcons moving up to draft him hasn't been able to get them much farther in the playoffs than Cincy over the past two seasons.

[Since82]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

It ends with Marvin who has got to get over run the ball play defense win the game 10-7...

Ian

Funny, if Marvin would have had a little more of this we would have won the Dallas game...

While the 49ers and Seahawks put up huge scoring numbers at times they both run the ball more than they pass and both play defense well. We shouldn't have any problems with wanting to run the ball well and playing good defense, however, conservative play calling and poor clock management will get you beat regularly. Those are problems Coach Lewis has exhibited over his 10 years here and hasn't gotten any better at IMO.

[Dalton's_Gang]

Originally Posted by WhoDeySailor

I'm still on the Hartline wagon for adding another reciever. I'd like our first 3 picks of the draft to look like this: 1.)SS 2a.)LB 2b.) HB. This way we don't waste a draft pick at WR when they really aren't that good this year.

if we can address a #2 WR in FA, then we can get a LB in FA. we need to spend high picks on the Offense IMO.

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by Since82

Funny, if Marvin would have had a little more of this we would have won the Dallas game...

While the 49ers and Seahawks put up huge scoring numbers at times they both run the ball more than they pass and both play defense well. We shouldn't have any problems with wanting to run the ball well and playing good defense, however, conservative play calling and poor clock management will get you beat regularly. Those are problems Coach Lewis has exhibited over his 10 years here and hasn't gotten any better at IMO.

Last 3 game we averaged 16.3points per game, lowest of any playoff team. Both the Seahawks and 49'ers have tremendous backs in Frank Gore and Marshawn Lynch. The 49'ers have excellent receivers as well. They also have dynamic QB play makers who can both run and pass, Dalton is neither of these guys, nor is he Brady or Rogers, hell he isn't even Flaco or Big Ben.

We need a play maker Barner is available, guys on this board have me convinced if Hartline is available get him here, get him here now!

I stick by my point that Sanu is Ronnie Harmon and that Marvin Jones is a huge find who just needs to be coached. He is raw. Gresham is a guy we drafted in round 1 and gave a five year deal-I am ready to fire the TE coach and get Donald Lee back here to coach him...

Ian

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by Dalton's_Gang

if we can address a #2 WR in FA, then we can get a LB in FA. we need to spend high picks on the Offense IMO.

WR in FA? OK high picks on Offense-not so sure we need another young CB to hedge our bets with Kirkpatrick and Ghee-both have proven to be very breakable. I want a difference maker drafted at SAM, I want Howard back to play Wil, and Burfict moves to Mike-Rey finds a team that wants him....a young safety to compliment Nelson would be great.

Ian

[ThunderCloud]

Originally Posted by coachmcneil71

Sanu was coming on strong and just missed his first 3 TD game before his injury. I would love for the team to have another first round talent on the otherside of AJ and it seems the best way to do that within the financial boundries of the new CBA is to draft one early.
With that said I am against drafting a WR early this season. There are no AJ Greens or J.Jones in this draft imo. I would like to see the team grab T.King or someone akin in the middle rounds. I am not sold on the UT WR's quite yet. Now that may change come combine time but right now I would like to see the O-line,Safety, and LB corps addressed first. I am not sold on Cook,Robinson, or Zeitler. Now I now that the team gets Wharton back and hopefully that will help the o-line some but personally I like BJGE,Peerman, and Boom going forward at RB.Not oppossed to the team grabing a speedy back but I just don't see it as a MAJOR need with a vet implace that is coming off of a 1000 yard season in his first year with the team.
I like Sanu and Jones going into their SECOND season...just saying!
Patterson of UT does have potential at WR though.I want to see how the combine goes first.
I mean I like J.Jones as much as the next guy but realistically the Falcons moving up to draft him hasn't been able to get them much farther in the playoffs than Cincy over the past two seasons.

Why would you not be sold on Zeitler?

[Ian Demagii]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Ahhhh......the ole rose colored glasses comments.

So please explain why Sanu will never beat press coverage as a WR. Please do not refer to the tired collegiate scouting reports which he, Geno, and MJ have made look silly.

The NFL has scouts for a reason-Geno has proved to be an all pro, Johnson was highly touted, Sanu has not proven anything and is no where near the proven commodity of the other 2....

The scouting reports are only tired, because they dont line up with your opinion. Sanu has zero speed 4.75 40 is TE speed. It doesn't matter-you don't care...just keep your deluded opinion, but that us all it is....

Ian

[Bengal4ever68]

Originally Posted by Ian Demagii

The NFL has scouts for a reason-Geno has proved to be an all pro, Johnson was highly touted, Sanu has not proven anything and is no where near the proven commodity of the other 2....

The scouting reports are only tired, because they dont line up with your opinion. Sanu has zero speed 4.75 40 is TE speed. It doesn't matter-you don't care...just keep your deluded opinion, but that us all it is....

Ian

Sanu is a possession guy. I think he will be our #2 guy next to Aj while Marvin Jones being in the slot. Or Jones may be the #2 with Sanu in the slot.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68

Sanu is a possession guy. I think he will be our #2 guy next to Aj while Marvin Jones being in the slot. Or Jones may be the #2 with Sanu in the slot.

If Jones and Sanu are both on the field then Sanu would be in the slot most of the time.