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  #626  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post

How 'bout Newton out there with Harbaugh and CK in Carolina, what happens ya think?
I think Newton would do well in SF. He is of a very similar skillset to CK.

I'll try this again, but most people would have Dalton ranked behind those two. Coaches, "experts", commentators, casual fans, die hard fans. Almost everyone is going to take Kaepernick right now. Not too many people would be taking Dalton to build their team over CK.

You can keep trumping up SF's offense, but it doesn't change the fact that the kid has ouplayed him recently. He looks better. A whole lot better.

I guess you're the only one that has it right though. Dalton is equal or better than CK. CK is only good because of his surroundings, even though they've had offense that's ranked in the bottom 3rd the last 3 years.

Last edited by Toast Jones; 01-23-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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  #627  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:55 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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What's the matter dude?
What do you mean?
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  #628  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Newton's better than Dalton too. I think those two (Newton and CK) are somewhat similar from an overall talent standpoint, therefore their records would be similar if they flip flopped. Who knows, SF may be better with Newton. If Dalton went to San Fran, I'd have to guess that their offense wouldn't be nearly as good as it is right now with Kaepernick.

I'll try this again, but most people would have Dalton ranked behind those two. Coaches, "experts", commentators, casual fans, die hard fans. Almost everyone is take Kaepernick. Not too many people would be taking Dalton to build their team over CK.

You can keep trumping up SF's offense, but it doesn't change the fact that the kid has ouplayed him recently. He looks better. A whole lot better.
Newtons a better athlete than Dalton but, IMO, Dalton is the better QB.

Newton struggled pretty bad in some stretches this season when teams started making him throw the football.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Newtons a better athlete than Dalton but, IMO, Dalton is the better QB.

Newton struggled pretty bad in some stretches this season when teams started making him throw the football.
Newton has no help though. He's got a 5ft 40 year old Steve Smith and that's it. He has a simlar QB rating to Dalton, with way less talent, and he's rushed for over 700 yards each year. He also has TWENTY TWO rushing TD's.
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  #630  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Newton has no help though. He's got a 5ft 40 year old Steve Smith and that's it. He has a simlar QB rating to Dalton, with way less talent, and he's rushed for over 700 yards each year. He also has TWENTY TWO rushing TD's.
I agree.

But you are listing rushing stats to support your argument, athlete.

He isn't quite the passer yet.

I would take Newton over Dalton every time, so would anyone starting a team.

IMO, Its the dynamic factor that Newton has that Dalton will never match.

Newton can make plays Dalton can't due to being a superior athlete i.e running, arm strength.
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  #631  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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I think Newton would do well in SF. He is of a very similar skillset to CK.

I'll try this again, but most people would have Dalton ranked behind those two. Coaches, "experts", commentators, casual fans, die hard fans. Almost everyone is going to take Kaepernick right now. Not too many people would be taking Dalton to build their team over CK.

You can keep trumping up SF's offense, but it doesn't change the fact that the kid has ouplayed him recently. He looks better. A whole lot better.

I guess you're the only one that has it right though. Dalton is equal or better than CK. CK is only good because of his surroundings, even though they've had offense that's ranked in the bottom 3rd the last 3 years.
That's not what I've been saying though. You can go back through this thread and see where I said that I grade CK higher than Dalton now.

I've been debating the idea that we can already see based on what Dalton has done here with the much lesser team what he would be able to accomplish were he to find himself in a situation more similar to what CK is in.

I never said CK doesn't look right now to be better, of course he does. I just don't look at CK this year, or Eli last year, or Rodgers in 2010 or Brees in 2009 and on down the line and go "Welp, it's a wrap, look at that guy, we'll never accomplish what they are with Dalton cuz Dalton will never be as good as that guy"......Heck, maybe he won't, but the jury is still out, and he's shown enough that we should look forward to seeing what happens with him if and when our run game don't stink on ice and we've got some more weapoons other than AJ.

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Newtons a better athlete than Dalton but, IMO, Dalton is the better QB.

Newton struggled pretty bad in some stretches this season when teams started making him throw the football.
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Newton has no help though. He's got a 5ft 40 year old Steve Smith and that's it. He has a simlar QB rating to Dalton, with way less talent, and he's rushed for over 700 yards each year. He also has TWENTY TWO rushing TD's.
I can't call it between these two. Newton is more dynamic physically, what can he do with a better team? That remains to be seen with both Dalton and Newton cuz neither one of them have much to work with on offense. People have a lot of respect for that RB combo down there, but it never seems to really bear much fruit....Coaching prolly has something to do with that, plus it always seems like one or both have nagging injuries.
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  #632  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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They're all NFL caliber starters. I'd take Wilson over any of them right now, including Luck.
That's odd coming from someone who is beating the "QB is only as good as the players around him" drum.

Few QBs were asked to do as much as Luck this year.

He threw the ball 627 times!!!!

He was pretty much their offense and the Colts had a middle of the road defense.

Seattle asked Wilson to throw 393 times and he had an "Elite" RB and a near "Elite" Defense.

Who had the harder job?
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  #633  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Wilson is farther along than say Newton or RGIII at being a "Real" NFL QB, but not as far along as Luck IMO.

I agree that the Bengals with Kaepernick probably would not be playing.

I like Kaep more as an athlete than QB, who knows if he will develop into something more.

He has made some pretty throws though.
Idk about that. RGIII had a 102.4 rating this year. He looked phenominal as a real NFL QB imo.

RGIII > Wilson > Newton > Kaepernick > Dalton > Luck > any other QB from the past 2 drafts.

RGIII and Wilson are neck and neck. I'm obviously not sold on Luck. Dalton could be higher with better pieces.
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  #634  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Idk about that. RGIII had a 102.4 rating this year. He looked phenominal as a real NFL QB imo.

RGIII > Wilson > Newton > Kaepernick > Dalton > Luck > any other QB from the past 2 drafts.

RGIII and Wilson are neck and neck. I'm obviously not sold on Luck. Dalton could be higher with better pieces.
Wasn't RGIII running the "pistol"?

Its a 1 read offense that Shanahan is only doing to simplify things for him.

Shanahan ran his real offense when Kirk Cousins was in there.

I won't argue that he looked phenominal.

He is going to have to learn to read a defense though or the people on here saying he won't last are right.

He can't take shots like that his whole career or he will be another Mike Vick.

Luck needs some help but its too early to know how good any of these young guys will be.

I am positive that Bengal fans are the only people who would take Dalton over Luck lol.

Last edited by gardner30; 01-23-2013 at 03:55 AM.
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  #635  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

[quote=Toast Jones;2788862] Dalton is equal or better than CK. CK is only good because of his surroundings, even though they've had offense that's ranked in the bottom 3rd the last 3 years.[/quote]

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And fwiw, this elite offense that SF supposedly boats, that he's such a beneficiary of, finished 26th last year. They finished 24th in 2010 and 27th in 2009. Even this year, they finished outside the top 10. The way people talk about all these weapons he has, you'd think he joined the Rams of the "Greatest Show on Turf" days.


moving forward than Dalton. I really don't see how anyone can dispute that he looks to be better right now, and moving forward. The guy has a skill set that that appears to be superior to Dalton's. NoMost people looking at things objectively would say that Kaepernick is going to be the better QB ?
Toast brings up an excellent point backed by data that many seem to be sidestpping. San Fran's offense has ranked near the bottom before CK. I'd be willing to bet (though don't have the time to look it up) that stastically they marginally improved in the games that he played.

So those of you that contend SF has a better offense, how do you explain the niners poor offensive rankings? Same personell except for one, finished 26th v. the soft NFCW in 2011?
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  #636  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

[quote=D.Boon;2788894]
Quote:
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Dalton is equal or better than CK. CK is only good because of his surroundings, even though they've had offense that's ranked in the bottom 3rd the last 3 years.[/quote]



Toast brings up an excellent point backed by data that many seem to be sidestpping. San Fran's offense has ranked near the bottom before CK. I'd be willing to bet (though don't have the time to look it up) that stastically they marginally improved in the games that he played.

So those of you that contend SF has a better offense, how do you explain the niners poor offensive rankings? Same personell except for one, finished 26th v. the soft NFCW in 2011?
Because he is better than Alex Smith?

He still has more options on offense than Dalton. Smith did too, he just isn't as good as CK. And yes I do think Dalton is better than Smith as well.
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  #637  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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I am positive that Bengal fans are the only people who would take Dalton over Luck lol.
I am positive that Bengal fans are the only people who would take Dalton over Colin lol.
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  #638  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:08 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Wasn't RGIII running the "pistol"?

Its a 1 read offense that Shanahan is only doing to simplify things for him.

Shanahan ran his real offense when Kirk Cousins was in there.

I won't argue that he looked phenominal.

He is going to have to learn to read a defense though or the people on here saying he won't last are right.

He can't take shots like that his whole career or he will be another Mike Vick.

Luck needs some help but its too early to know how good any of these young guys will be.

I am positive that Bengal fans are the only people who would take Dalton over Luck lol.
They run the pistol in San Fran, but all of a sudden its simple because RG3 does it?

Dafuq?
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  #639  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

[quote=Pezmerga;2788912]
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Because he is better than Alex Smith?

He still has more options on offense than Dalton. Smith did too, he just isn't as good as CK. And yes I do think Dalton is better than Smith as well.
The answer is because he is significantly better than Smith...and you can make an argument that in the games they played this year Smith was better than Dalton. At the very least they are comparable QB's (i.e. game managers w great defenses).

Just to make the point, in the playoffs the niners lead all teams in total offense. They've averaged 36.5 points per game. CK is responsible for 700 yards and five touchdowns in two games.

Give the man credit. He took an offense that was ranked near last in the league one year ago (no major cahnges in personnel save for one) and has transformed it into a juggernaut. While true that the defense held ATL in check, CK calmly and confidently lead his team on a historic comeback and is going to the friggin' suberbowl. How are people not impressed by this?
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  #640  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

One of these days I'm' gonna login to not find this topic on page 1.
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  #641  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

[quote=D.Boon;2789058]
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The answer is because he is significantly better than Smith...and you can make an argument that in the games they played this year Smith was better than Dalton. At the very least they are comparable QB's (i.e. game managers w great defenses).

Just to make the point, in the playoffs the niners lead all teams in total offense. They've averaged 36.5 points per game. CK is responsible for 700 yards and five touchdowns in two games.

Give the man credit. He took an offense that was ranked near last in the league one year ago (no major cahnges in personnel save for one) and has transformed it into a juggernaut. While true that the defense held ATL in check, CK calmly and confidently lead his team on a historic comeback and is going to the friggin' suberbowl. How are people not impressed by this?
I know I'm impressed. He is very accurate and throws such a beautiful ball and can throw a thirty yard frozen rope on the money. Honestly, anyone who's not impressed is just trying not to be, imo.

It doesn't take anything away from any other QB to say CK is a very skilled player who possesses a large quantity of the "IT" factor.
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  #642  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:03 AM
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It may not be the team around him, but to dismiss the 49er's success as being related to just Colin Kaepernick is just ridiculous.....
The 49ers record has nothing to do with why I'm impressed with Kaep ... I'm not just looking at the final scores and going 'wow', I have actually watched the games. Honestly, have you actually watched the games that he's played? I've watched the following 49ers games which Kaep started in their entirety: Saints, Patriots, Seahawks games from their regular season, Packers and Falcons playoff games. I guess all I got left to say is that if anybody watches all of those games and doesn't come away impressed with what Kaepernick as an individual player is doing on the field then I'm just all out of ideas. You're just a very difficult person to impress!
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  #643  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

26 pages. Damn!
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  #644  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

What it boils down to also is that Harbaugh put Kaepernick in an offense that uses his strengths. It's essentially a college offense and they have a mauling offensive line.

If Kaepernick was on the Bengals, he'd likely be running the same flavor of offense that Dalton is which wouldn't be suited to his strengths.

Is the Bengals offense ideally suited for Dalton? No. It isn't either.

Some teams have visionaries on offense. Some don't.
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  #645  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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What it boils down to also is that Harbaugh put Kaepernick in an offense that uses his strengths. It's essentially a college offense and they have a mauling offensive line.

If Kaepernick was on the Bengals, he'd likely be running the same flavor of offense that Dalton is which wouldn't be suited to his strengths.

Is the Bengals offense ideally suited for Dalton? No. It isn't either.

Some teams have visionaries on offense. Some don't.
This is a huge offseason for Jay. I would suggest that his "WCO" should actually act like a WCO.
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  #646  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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One of these days I'm' gonna login to not find this topic on page 1.
What do you care? Obviously you care enough to open the thread and post in it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:34 AM
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This is a huge offseason for Jay. I would suggest that his "WCO" should actually act like a WCO.
I think that the main thing it lacks is a RB that can catch the ball.

We obviously need a #2 WR too. But, true WC offenses have backs that catch the ball.
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  #648  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:38 AM
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I think that the main thing it lacks is a RB that can catch the ball.

We obviously need a #2 WR too. But, true WC offenses have backs that catch the ball.
Also, where are the slants, the curls, the quick outs, etc?
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  #649  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:42 AM
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What do you care? Obviously you care enough to open the thread and post in it.
calm down tiger, i was just trying to be funny, don't take it as a personal attack.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:54 AM
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calm down tiger, i was just trying to be funny, don't take it as a personal attack.
I didn't take anything personally (what was there to take?) Just pointing out that it's stupid to complain about the existence of a thread that you're participating in. Your humor apparently was lost on me...
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