A fine Championship Day Mock

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

I like it. Especially upgrading the #2 WR and interior offensive line.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a WR in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named AJ on the offense.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a S in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Nelson in the Safety corp.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a LB (or 2) in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Burfict in the LB corp.

Wow! This logic really "proves" a lot.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a RB in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named . . . Oh, that's right. There isn't really anyone in the RB corp. The Bengals will need a playmaker at RB.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by mulligan

To anyone who doesn't think we need a S in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Nelson in the Safety corp.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a LB (or 2) in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Burfict in the LB corp.

Wow! This logic really "proves" a lot.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a RB in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named . . . Oh, that's right. There isn't really anyone in the RB corp. The Bengals will need a playmaker at RB.

He selected a S in the 2nd round.

He selected a little known LB in the 3rd round who will be better known after the combine.

He selected RB in the 4th round that would go higher based upon ability, but whose value has dropped due to injury concerns. Like it or not, barring injury BJGE will still be the #1 RB next year. If Michael doesn't have to carry the load it lessens the injury concerns which means he is good value for the draft slot.

This logic doesn't "prove" anything because it is a "mock" draft. It isn't real. It's make believe. It's opinion. Thus the term, "mock."

No mock draft can fill every whole with a starter with 8 picks. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The general consensus among those who took the time to comment is this would be a very good draft for the Bengals. Must you drag your whiny histrionics into every mock draft every year? It's annoying. If I never see "WTS" again it will be too soon.

bfine addressed a glaring offensive need with the first pick and a glaring defensive need with the second pick. Starting with the first pick, he alternated between offense and defense until the 6th round. It's call balance.

In 2011 and 2012, the defense ranked 7th and 6th, respectively. The offense, 20th and 22nd, respectively. It is amazing the defense ranked as high as they did considering the Bengals poor 3rd down conversion percentage (27th) meant the offense couldn't sustain drives. Spending three out of the four top picks on the 6th ranked defense and one on the 22nd ranked offense, as you seemed to suggest, is the opposite of balance.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by hacker

you are ignoring or hoping that later round selections somehow miraculously pan out.

wait for it...

Allow Sanu and Jones to pan out and then let's see.

Is it just me or aren't you hoping later round selections somehow miraculously pan out, too?

[Lawless_1]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

The dude in your sig is the strength and that's a problem lol. Doesn't say much for your other receivers when AJ gets as much attention as he does and they can be as unimpressive as they were.

Oh AJ Green will probably go down as one of the best player this franchise has ever seen but out side of him we had nothing and everyone knew it. We knew it, the Bengals knew it (which is why they waived the season opening #2 WR), and the biggest problem was other teams knew it.

Look Sanu is a good player and I like him.... in the slot...

I'm not as sold on Marvin Jones as everyone else seems to be. He lacks explosiveness and does not have any assets to make up for it.... he's just decent at a lot of things and has mediocre at others.

[Going_Green]

I like this draft a lot, however I kinda want a rb early, btw why does it seem like in every pic Matt Elams jersey is way too small for him lol

[savagehenry54]

Gimme a "if we sign Hartline" mock.......I've got a dream maaannn.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Natikid873

I just feel that our War Room may not see eye to eye on drafting a WR in Rd.

Hoping the Playoff game opened up their eyes. Dalton is not good enough to do it on his own; he needs weapons.

Originally Posted by mrcrockj

The only thing I might try is getting a RB like Ellington with 2b.

I like Ellington as well and mockedhim in a preseason mock @ 2b

Originally Posted by urinalcake

only thing that would make it better woud be getting a good OC at 2B instead of OG. Frederick probably isn't in the cards unfortunately though.
Great work.

Like I said Warford has experience at OC. Heck you could even move Z to OC (he dominated in last year's Senior Bowl Practice) and put Warford at RG

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

If that round 4 RB works out then I love this.

Been on the Michael bandwagon since his Freshman year. IF (big if) he had remained injury free he'd be the 1st RB taken in this draft

Originally Posted by mulligan

To anyone who doesn't think we need a S in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Nelson in the Safety corp.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a LB (or 2) in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Burfict in the LB corp.

Wow! This logic really "proves" a lot.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a RB in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named . . . Oh, that's right. There isn't really anyone in the RB corp. The Bengals will need a playmaker at RB.

To be far the dude said "offense", you just named a bunch of positions

Originally Posted by Wingnut

wait for it...



Is it just me or aren't you hoping later round selections somehow miraculously pan out, too?

I was thinking the same thing

Originally Posted by Going_Green

I like this draft a lot, however I kinda want a rb early, btw why does it seem like in every pic Matt Elams jersey is way too small for him lol

Cause Elam's yoked like that.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

In 2011 and 2012, the defense ranked 7th and 6th, respectively. The offense, 20th and 22nd, respectively. It is amazing the defense ranked as high as they did considering the Bengals poor 3rd down conversion percentage (27th) meant the offense couldn't sustain drives. Spending three out of the four top picks on the 6th ranked defense and one on the 22nd ranked offense, as you seemed to suggest, is the opposite of balance.

The defense has been built on a deck of cards for years. It will waiver in 2013 if it isn't addressed.

Offense: Four (4) first round picks - Green, Gresham, Zeitler, & Smith
Offense: Two (2) second round picks - Dalton, Whitworth,
Defense: Two (2) first round picks - Dre Kirk & Leon Hall
Defense: Three (3) second round picks - Maualuga (UFA), Dunlap, Still

First round picks are "playmakers". Currently, the offense has more "playmakers" than the defense.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/7/...gent-list-2013
In addition, the Bengals have literally twice as many defensive UFA (12) than offensive UFA (6).
Name a offensive playmaker that isn't named AJ Green on the offense: Andre Smith, Andrew Whitworth, Jermaine Gresham (2nd on the team in all offensive categories), & Zeitler.

Zimmer has put together top 10 defenses with his coaching and scheming. If/when Zimmer finds a HC position, most likely the next DC will not be so successful the same grouping.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by mulligan

The defense has been built on a deck of cards for years. It will waiver in 2013 if it isn't addressed.

Offense: Four (4) first round picks - Green, Gresham, Zeitler, & Smith
Offense: Two (2) second round picks - Dalton, Whitworth,
Defense: Two (2) first round picks - Dre Kirk & Leon Hall
Defense: Three (3) second round picks - Maualuga (UFA), Dunlap, Still

First round picks are "playmakers". Currently, the offense has more "playmakers" than the defense.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/7/...gent-list-2013
In addition, the Bengals have literally twice as many defensive UFA (12) than offensive UFA (6).
Name a offensive playmaker that isn't named AJ Green on the offense: Andre Smith, Andrew Whitworth, Jermaine Gresham (2nd on the team in all offensive categories), & Zeitler.

Zimmer has put together top 10 defenses with his coaching and scheming. If/when Zimmer finds a HC position, most likely the next DC will not be so successful the same grouping.

Nelson is a former first rounder of someone else who has revived his career here, very solid at FS and it's with the high round talent you covet.

Also, I don't care where Geno was drated, he's our best defender.

The defense is far from a house of cards. Very good DLine anchored by an All Pro. Solid secondary anchored by a very good CB who may well have another pro bowl caliber guy across from him if Dre Kirk gets healthy and works out. LBs are shaky, I think Taze will be an improvement in the middle and we need to pick up some OLBs, give me one in the draft and maybe FA, plus hopefully Howard will come back from the injury okay, he's pretty decent.

I'm not saying we should ignore defense, SS and LB def need addressed, and I think they will be. Not a house of cards. I look for them to make a couple upgrades and quite possibly go from good to great.

[bonesaw]

Ok i don't watch the Vols too much. For those who do i have a question. Based on skill, talent, size, and speed only who is the best out of patterson, hunter, and da'rick.

[Lawless_1]

Originally Posted by bonesaw

Ok i don't watch the Vols too much. For those who do i have a question. Based on skill, talent, size, and speed only who is the best out of patterson, hunter, and da'rick.

Patterson to me is the best WR in this class.

Reminds me of Randy Moss.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by mulligan

To anyone who doesn't think we need a S in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Nelson in the Safety corp.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a LB (or 2) in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Burfict in the LB corp.

Wow! This logic really "proves" a lot.

To anyone who doesn't think we need a RB in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named . . . Oh, that's right. There isn't really anyone in the RB corp. The Bengals will need a playmaker at RB.

Originally Posted by mulligan

The defense has been built on a deck of cards for years. It will waiver in 2013 if it isn't addressed.

Offense: Four (4) first round picks - Green, Gresham, Zeitler, & Smith
Offense: Two (2) second round picks - Dalton, Whitworth,
Defense: Two (2) first round picks - Dre Kirk & Leon Hall
Defense: Three (3) second round picks - Maualuga (UFA), Dunlap, Still

First round picks are "playmakers". Currently, the offense has more "playmakers" than the defense.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/7/...gent-list-2013
In addition, the Bengals have literally twice as many defensive UFA (12) than offensive UFA (6).
Name a offensive playmaker that isn't named AJ Green on the offense: Andre Smith, Andrew Whitworth, Jermaine Gresham (2nd on the team in all offensive categories), & Zeitler.

Zimmer has put together top 10 defenses with his coaching and scheming. If/when Zimmer finds a HC position, most likely the next DC will not be so successful the same grouping.

Another foolish post in a long succession of foolish posts by you. You have something to complain about in almost every mock draft you comment in like it is your damn job.

So just because a player was drafted in the first or second round that makes him a playmaker? Okay. We'll use your definition. By your definition of playmaker the offense has Zeitler, Smith, Gresham, Green, Leonard, Whitworth, and Dalton. The defense has Lawson, Jones, Newman, Allen, Clements, Nelson, Hall, Kirkpatrick, Anderson, Howard, Dunlop, Still, Mauluga, and Mays. So using your definition of playmaker the defense has more than double the amount of playmakers than the offense.

Name a playmaker not named Burfict in the LB corp? Lawson, Howard, and Mauluga were drafted in the 1st, 2nd, and 2nd rounds, respectively. Name a playmaker not named Nelson in the S corp? Mays was drafted in the 2nd round. Name a playmaker at RB? Brian Leonard was drafted in the 2nd round. According to your definition all are playmakers. Mulligan, how can Lawson, Mauluga, Mays, and Leonard simultaneously be playmakers and not be playmakers according to you?

According to your definition, the offense has 7 playmakers while the defense has 13 playmakers. Since the Bengals have the most salary cap space in the NFL heading into the 2013 free agency period they should have no problem re-signing their own. Right? So pretty hard to argue the Bengals need to spend their top four picks on a S, two LBers, and a RB when they already have playmakers at each of those postions...according to your definition of playmaker. According to your definition, the defense has more defensive playmakers than defensive positions.

If the defense waivers from 6th in the league to to merely average, it will still be better than an offense that ranked in the bottom 1/3rd of the league.

Zimmer won't have the same grouping of players next season that he had this season, so of course a new DC will have a different grouping in 2014 at the earliest. Duh. If you have a top 6 defense it will be difficult for anyone to do better. Even Zimmer himself whose defenses ranked better 3 times, but ranked worse 7 times. Why are you even worried about a hypothetical defensive coordinator sometime in the future because a defensive player drafted this year might not even fit his scheme sometime down the road in the future.

Dayum.

[Pezmerga]

Originally Posted by bonesaw

Ok i don't watch the Vols too much. For those who do i have a question. Based on skill, talent, size, and speed only who is the best out of patterson, hunter, and da'rick.

I like Da'Rick Rogers. I know the character issues, but if he falls to the end of the 2nd, or even the 3rd because of it, it is great Value. Patterson might have to be taken in the first.

Also Da'Rick has elite skills. I really think he can be special if he focuses on football and stops being a knucklehead.

[PhxBENGALfanatic]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Watching the NFC/AFC Championship games today, I decided to do my part to show Mikey will have us playing in this game next year.

This is my first mock since the season ended and we know where all of our picks are going to be (sure 5B can moved 1 or 2 positions).

So here you go Mikey; pay atention and address FA accordingly. PM me if you need help with that.

1. CORDARRELLE PATTERSON WR/TENN


6'3", 205 pound track star. Single-handedly lowered David Amerson's draft status one round in his first FBS game. This guy can do everything, has the speed to take the top off a defense, the size to go over the middle, the runing ability to be used on gadget plays, and is a dynamic Kick Returner. 1st player in 4 years to score a TD 4 different ways (receiving, rushing, kick return, punt return). I like Marvin and Mohamed as much as the next guy; however, Corderrelle is a signifigant upgrade. Ever wonder what it would be like to has AJ and Julio Jones on the same team? Draft this guy and find out.

2A. MATT ELAM SS/UF


I look at this guy and I see Troy Polamalu. Identical in size and game. Troy like to lay the wood and seems to be everywhere on the field. You watch a Florida game and you will see the same out of Matt. Some consider Matt undisciplined and goes for the big hit instead of the wrap up; however, Matt has been called the best form tackler in college. Put Matt back there with his fellow Gator and we have a dynamic duo.

2B. LARRY WARFORD OG/UK


Travis Frederick in currently the sexy pick here; however, Warford is simply a better interior lineman. Has some experience as Center and Can play all 3 interior lineman positions and RT in a pinch. UK linemen never get any national recognition; however, Warford was named AP 3rd Team All-American. The first Wildcat Olineman since 1976

3. JAMIE COLLINS OLB/SO.MISS


Former DB, turned LB, turned D-Lineman. Absolutely fills up the stat sheet: 92 tackles (20.0 TFL), 10 sacks, 4 Forced Fumbles. Experience as a DB speaks well for his cover skills and 16.5 sacks (39.5 TFL) in the 2 years he played D-line speak we, ll for his ability to be disruptive in the opponent’s backfield. At 6’3”, 239 pounds with 4.6 speed he has the perfect size/speed blend required of a SAM.

4. CHRISTINE MICHAEL RB/TA&M


Value, value, value. Christine would be gone in the 2nd if it weren't for an ACL injury suffered at the end of his Junior Year and the fact that he and the new TA&M didn't see things eye to eye. The only person that might like him better than me as a prospect is Mike Mayock. Mayock raved over his practice week and game performance during the East-West Shrine Game. This guy is bigger, faster, and has more wiggle than Eddie Lacy.

5. AJ KLEIN MLB/ISU


Drafting AJ gives us flexibility. Best case he excels in the middle and allows us to keep Vontaze at WILL. Worst case we have a upgrade of Skuta as a swiss Army Knife type LB. AJ can play all three LB position and his athletic ability is often over looked.He leave ISU with 342 tackles (19 TFL) and 3 sacks. AJ excels in pass coverage: 5 INTs, 9 PDs, and no LB in College history was returned more INTs for TD than AJ.

6A. LEVINE TOILOLO TE/STAN


Still a work in progress at TE. But he has the tools to develop into an elite talent. 6'8", 265 pounds with good hands. Insurance policy for when Gresh's contract is up. We can let him develop on the PS or he can take Quinn's spot as the guy on the 53 that is never active.

6B. BRADEN BROWN OT/BYU


6'6", 305 pound OT that was recruited as a TE. Can come in and take over Roland's duties on the field. When we line up in the overload package, this guy could provide us with a catch or 2.

Love this draft! Nice work! My only concern is the Kentucky OG. I think our OG are set and deep if Wharton comes back ready to rumble. DE or another OLB would be a decent option. With that being said this draft would make me a very happy boy.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by PhxBENGALfanatic

Love this draft! Nice work! My only concern is the Kentucky OG. I think our OG are set and deep if Wharton comes back ready to rumble. DE or another OLB would be a decent option. With that being said this draft would make me a very happy boy.

When Leon Hall ruptured his Achilles tendon he was 27 and in his prime. I was extremely confident he would be ready to play Week 1 the following season.

When Travelle Wharton ruptured his his right ACL he was 31 (will be 32 in May) and is past his prime. Not only does he need to rehab the knee, he will need to regain the muscle mass and strength lost after his surgery to play against guys like Haloti Ngata. I'm not as confident Wharton can come back as readily as Hall did at this point in his career. You don't recuperate as well when you're 31 or 32 compared to 27.

I'd rather have Warford than both Wharton and Boling.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

When Leon Hall ruptured his Achilles tendon he was 27 and in his prime. I was extremely confident he would be ready to play Week 1 the following season.

When Travelle Wharton ruptured his his right ACL he was 31 (will be 32 in May) and is past his prime. Not only does he need to rehab the knee, he will need to regain the muscle mass and strength lost after his surgery to play against guys like Haloti Ngata. I'm not as confident Wharton can come back as readily as Hall did at this point in his career. You don't recuperate as well when you're 31 or 32 compared to 27.

I'd rather have Warford than both Wharton and Boling.

Wharton was hurt in August of 2012 (pre-season) and Hall was hurt in November 2011 against the Steelers, Wharton will have over a year to be ready. If it was just an ACL (not MCL and meniscus), then he should know problem being ready in 8 or 9 months. His repaired knee may be stronger than it was before the injury.

I suspect Wharton is cleared for May OTA's.

[PhxBENGALfanatic]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

When Leon Hall ruptured his Achilles tendon he was 27 and in his prime. I was extremely confident he would be ready to play Week 1 the following season.

When Travelle Wharton ruptured his his right ACL he was 31 (will be 32 in May) and is past his prime. Not only does he need to rehab the knee, he will need to regain the muscle mass and strength lost after his surgery to play against guys like Haloti Ngata. I'm not as confident Wharton can come back as readily as Hall did at this point in his career. You don't recuperate as well when you're 31 or 32 compared to 27.

I'd rather have Warford than both Wharton and Boling.

I understand but I think Boling worst case will be just fine. With pick 2b this team has plenty of options and thats a good thing!

[D.Boon]

Sweet draft. I'm more of a DeAndre Hopkins guy and love Elam...if it played out this way I'm pretty damn happy.

[bfine32]

Don't know if anybody is watching the Senior Bowl practices, but my man Warford is killing it. They have him playing RG and LG, he's pulling, stone-walling, and getting to the 2nd level. Only negative is he appeared to get gassed toward the end.

[ilovethedraft]

I want absolutely nothing to do with a 1st round WR. I think you can have an equally talented WR in the 2nd. If I had to absolutely take a 1st round WR, it would probably be Patterson.

With the potential of both Wheaton and Patton being available at the top of the 2nd round, I think you can get equal productivity and better value from the WR position from either of those players.

When it comes to the RB position, Ray Graham from Pitt will be available in the 5th and, again, he would provide the same productivity at greater value.

With it all said and done, though, this draft is well thought out top to bottom.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Another foolish post in a long succession of foolish posts by you. You have something to complain about in almost every mock draft you comment in like it is your damn job.

So just because a player was drafted in the first or second round that makes him a playmaker? Okay. We'll use your definition. By your definition of playmaker the offense has Zeitler, Smith, Gresham, Green, Leonard, Whitworth, and Dalton. The defense has Lawson, Jones, Newman, Allen, Clements, Nelson, Hall, Kirkpatrick, Anderson, Howard, Dunlop, Still, Mauluga, and Mays. So using your definition of playmaker the defense has more than double the amount of playmakers than the offense.

Name a playmaker not named Burfict in the LB corp? Lawson, Howard, and Mauluga were drafted in the 1st, 2nd, and 2nd rounds, respectively. Name a playmaker not named Nelson in the S corp? Mays was drafted in the 2nd round. Name a playmaker at RB? Brian Leonard was drafted in the 2nd round. According to your definition all are playmakers. Mulligan, how can Lawson, Mauluga, Mays, and Leonard simultaneously be playmakers and not be playmakers according to you?

According to your definition, the offense has 7 playmakers while the defense has 13 playmakers. Since the Bengals have the most salary cap space in the NFL heading into the 2013 free agency period they should have no problem re-signing their own. Right? So pretty hard to argue the Bengals need to spend their top four picks on a S, two LBers, and a RB when they already have playmakers at each of those postions...according to your definition of playmaker. According to your definition, the defense has more defensive playmakers than defensive positions.

If the defense waivers from 6th in the league to to merely average, it will still be better than an offense that ranked in the bottom 1/3rd of the league.

Zimmer won't have the same grouping of players next season that he had this season, so of course a new DC will have a different grouping in 2014 at the earliest. Duh. If you have a top 6 defense it will be difficult for anyone to do better. Even Zimmer himself whose defenses ranked better 3 times, but ranked worse 7 times. Why are you even worried about a hypothetical defensive coordinator sometime in the future because a defensive player drafted this year might not even fit his scheme sometime down the road in the future.

Dayum.

You say complain, I say discuss. I guess it is a matter of opinion.

Age doesn't factor into your evaluation (Clements, Newman). Nor does apparent "bust" or lackluster pick (Lawson, Maualuga).

I think that Nelson, Pacman, Hall, & Dunlap are solid players.

Dre Kirk is still unproven (I am hopeful though). So is Still for the most part.

Mays appears to be a lost cause.

Anderson wasn't too impressive prior to going on IR.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Nelson is a former first rounder of someone else who has revived his career here, very solid at FS and it's with the high round talent you covet.

Also, I don't care where Geno was drated, he's our best defender.

The defense is far from a house of cards. Very good DLine anchored by an All Pro. Solid secondary anchored by a very good CB who may well have another pro bowl caliber guy across from him if Dre Kirk gets healthy and works out. LBs are shaky, I think Taze will be an improvement in the middle and we need to pick up some OLBs, give me one in the draft and maybe FA, plus hopefully Howard will come back from the injury okay, he's pretty decent.

I'm not saying we should ignore defense, SS and LB def need addressed, and I think they will be. Not a house of cards. I look for them to make a couple upgrades and quite possibly go from good to great.

Couldn't the same argument be made for offense?

I'm not saying we should ignore offense, RB & WR2 def need addressed, and I think they will be.

As for the house of cards, the Safety corp is a mess, especially when you consider Clements probably won't be a Bengal in 2013 nor will Chris Crocker. The LB corp is a mess as well, especially when/if Lawson isn't a Bengal in 2013. And Maualuga may not be one either. Our "saviors" are an UDFA (Burfict) and a WILL coming back from IR (Howard).

Without a compelling argument, I find it out to fathom a mock that doesn't address LB, S, & RB with the first 3 picks.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

Wharton was hurt in August of 2012 (pre-season) and Hall was hurt in November 2011 against the Steelers, Wharton will have over a year to be ready. If it was just an ACL (not MCL and meniscus), then he should know problem being ready in 8 or 9 months. His repaired knee may be stronger than it was before the injury.

I suspect Wharton is cleared for May OTA's.

His knee will not be stronger after the surgery than it was before. That's a myth.

Let's test your theory. Make an appointment with an orthopedist. Request he repair your pefectly healthy ACL so it will be stronger after surgery. Let me know what he tells you about surgery making your knee stronger post op.

http://www.londonkneeclinic.com/arti...n=4&article=24

Review the graph at the bottom.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/a...urgery#hw28291

"After an ACL injury and surgery, the knee is never "normal." But most people regain enough strength and range of motion to return to their usual activities."

May 2013 would put Wharton 8 months s/p ACL reconstruction and he may very will be cleared for OTAs. That means he has enough ROM and strength to participate. However, that doesn't mean he has the same level of strength he had prior to the surgery.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by mulligan

You say complain, I say discuss. I guess it is a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by mulligan

To anyone who doesn't think we need a S in the first two rounds, name one playmaker not named Nelson in the Safety corp.

Originally Posted by bfine32

2A. MATT ELAM SS/UF

I may have written "complain", but I meant complaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain which ephasizes your near constant whine.

Age doesn't factor into your evaluation (Clements, Newman). Nor does apparent "bust" or lackluster pick (Lawson, Maualuga).

We're using your definition of a playmaker, not my evaluation.

I think that Nelson, Pacman, Hall, & Dunlap are solid players.

How can they only be "solid" when by your definition they are playmakers based upon their draft position? Especially since you previously cited Hall by name as a playmaker, but now he is only "solid"?

Dre Kirk is still unproven (I am hopeful though). So is Still for the most part.

Previously, you cited both these players as playmakers. How can they be playmakers and unproven players simultaneously?

Mays appears to be a lost cause.

But, but, but...

According to your definition of playmaker, he is the very definition of playmaker.

Anderson wasn't too impressive prior to going on IR.

Jamaal Anderson was a top 10 draft pick. Last time I checked, top 10 picks are in the first round. First round picks are playmakers by your definition.



Geno Atkins was a 4th round pick. You didn't include 4th round picks in your definition of playmakers. According to your definition of playmaker, Geno Atkins is not a playmaker even though he is the best player on the Bengals' defense.



So what does all this suggest about your definition?

[ilovethedraft]

@wingnut and @mulligan, stop hijacking this thread. If you want to argue about who's ****** is bigger, take it to 4chan.