Cedric Benson

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

What if were looking at a QB and I only pointed to his yards. I said "Look, this guy threw for 4,000 yards so he is".

If he was 1 of only 5 in the NFL that did it for 3 straight years.. I'd say look at that.

But some would say otherwise.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by Broken1

Benson was hurt by the fact that teams have never respected Carson like they did before the elbow injury. I don't hold any ill will towards Benson...he did the best he could with what he had, and didn't perform horribly when called upon. It's just hard to go from Dillon to Johnson, and then look what Benson produced and look at it as anything great.

Naw, not great, but good, better than Ellis and I think personally, better than Rudi could have done in the same spot.

[Broken1]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Naw, not great, but good, better than Ellis and I think personally, better than Rudi could have done in the same spot.

Ellis had a great 5 game stretch which has endeared him to some fans. I personally am not a fan of their player and think that both are average backs who have good qualities, but also significant flaws in their game.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

It's cuz given the same line and same passing game some feel, myself included that Ced would have done more with it than did Rudi.

I never saw Ced running through holes I would think to myself, "man I could have got 8 yards outta that".......But I saw Rudi run through holes like that all the time.....and get about 8 yards.

Benson ran behind an unbalance line one year. Rudi never ran behind 17 offensive lineman.

Look, I'm not saying Rudi was great. But he put up 3 or 4 straight 1300, 1400 yard years. He hit double digit s TD's. But he never gets any credit. Yet this guy gets talked about like those 1,200 yard seasons were 1,600 yard seasons???

All I'm saying, or really asking, is: why are we even wasting time talking about this guy right now? No one who knows anything would says this guy was great. We can all argue over how we define good and ok, but who really cares?

Can't we all agree that whoever we roll with next year will hopefully do a lot better than the one man show of Cedric Benson did in 2010 and 2011?

[Broken1]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Can't we all agree that whoever we roll with next year will do a lot better than the one man show of Cedric Benson did in 2010 and 2011?

Actually, Green-Ellis had a very Cedric Benson type season last year. Good in stretches, terrible in others. 280 carries, right around 1,100 yards, and single digit touchdowns.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Rudi never ran behind 17 offensive lineman.

Silly really

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Broken1

Actually, Green-Ellis had a very Cedric Benson type season last year. Good in stretches, terrible in others. 280 carries, right around 1,100 yards, and single digit touchdowns.

Sorry, I just edited that. It was supposed to say: "Can't we all agree that whoever we roll with next year will hopefully do better..."

I'm just saying that I would think we would all agree that we hope our run game is much better in 2013 than it was in 2010 and 2011. And 2012 for that matter. Like you said, the numbers are pretty close.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Silly really

Oh, it was joke. C'mon, I know you had to pick up on that. And nevertheless, the dig still holds a little weight. Benson managed one good year YPC wise here, and it just so happened to be the year that we only needed to roll out 3 OT's for him to get there.

[Broken1]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Sorry, I just edited that. It was supposed to say: "Can't we all agree that whoever we roll with next year will hopefully do better..."

I'm just saying that I would think we would all agree that our run game is much better in 2013 than it was in 2010 and 2011. And 2012 for that matter. Like you said, the numbers are pretty close.

I believe that our running game will be better next year regardless of who is in the backfield. As Zietler and Boling got their feet wet they both became very physical in the run game. Even to the point that I seen Brian Billick state on NFL Network that four different teams who played the Bengals believed they had the most physical offensive line in the league. I think that trend will continue as those players grow. Hopefully their pass protection picks up as well.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Oh, it was joke. C'mon, I know you had to pick up on that. And nevertheless, the dig still holds a little weight. Benson managed one good year YPC wise here, and it just so happened to be the year that we only needed to roll out 3 OT's for him to get there.

Ced' did a fine job for us as RB, It's OK if you and others can't see it.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Ced' did a fine job for us as RB, It's OK if you and others can't see it.

Yup, fine job indeed. We agree. But I think of it as: fine = ok = average.

The guy isn't, and never was, even remotely close to an elite level back. It's ok if you and other can't admit it.

Curious, do you consider Reshard Mendenhall as a top tier running back? Cuz that's pretty much the exact type of player Benson was. Well, minus the fumbles of course.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Curious, do you consider Reshard Mendenhall as a top tier running back? Cuz that's pretty much the exact type of player Benson was. Well, minus the fumbles of course.

Yep, Benson was a rock for us; missed about 3-4 games in his 4 years here. I could see how somebody woud try to equate that to mend my bones.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by Broken1

Ellis had a great 5 game stretch which has endeared him to some fans. I personally am not a fan of their player and think that both are average backs who have good qualities, but also significant flaws in their game.

Ced appeared to me to be the better runner but lacked the ball security. And he was getting old, bad timing really. I do believe an 08-10 Benson would have performed considerably better than Ellis did this year.

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Benson ran behind an unbalance line one year. Rudi never ran behind 17 offensive lineman.

Look, I'm not saying Rudi was great. But he put up 3 or 4 straight 1300, 1400 yard years. He hit double digit s TD's. But he never gets any credit. Yet this guy gets talked about like those 1,200 yard seasons were 1,600 yard seasons???

All I'm saying, or really asking, is: why are we even wasting time talking about this guy right now? No one who knows anything would says this guy was great. We can all argue over how we define good and ok, but who really cares?

Can't we all agree that whoever we roll with next year will hopefully do a lot better than the one man show of Cedric Benson did in 2010 and 2011?

Bfine would like that but I wouldn't have as much to say, i don't follow college ball like that. I gotta stick to what I know, the NFL and the Bengals. I hope we draft a beast, and then I'mma be all "i told you so" to all the Dalton haters.

Originally Posted by Broken1

Actually, Green-Ellis had a very Cedric Benson type season last year. Good in stretches, terrible in others. 280 carries, right around 1,100 yards, and single digit touchdowns.

On paper, yea, but like I say, I just think Benson had more vision, more wiggle, but still powerful. Not great at any of that (except maybe power), and fumbled, but overall, more of a threat to a defense than Ellis has been or will ever be.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Yep, Benson was a rock for us; missed about 3-4 games in his 4 years here. I could see how somebody woud try to equate that to mend my bones.

"Mend by bones" played in 47 of 48 games in 2009, 2010, and 2011.

He also averaged 4.6, 3.9 and 4.1 yards (slightly higher) and had a season where he scored 13 TD's. His 2nd best was 9, which is still better than Ced's career high. He has 65 catches in those years, and, oh, and he only had 6 fumbles in those 3 seasons. (Ced had 7 in just one season alone)

I do think they're pretty similar though actually, especially considering the timeline being used here. But you didn't answer my question, do you consider Mendenhall to be a top tier back?

[Broken1]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

"Mend by bones" played in 47 of 48 games in 2009, 2010, and 2011.

He also averaged 4.6, 3.9 and 4.1 yards (slightly higher) and had a season where he scored 13 TD's. His 2nd best was 9, which is still better than Ced's career high. He has 65 catches in those years, and, oh, and he only had 6 fumbles in those 3 seasons. (Ced had 7 in just one season alone)

I do think they're pretty similar thought actually. especially considering the timeline being used here. But you didn't answer my question, do you consider Mendenhall a top tier back?s

But did he run for 1,000+ yards in all three of those seasons?

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Broken1

But did he run for 1,000+ yards in all three of those seasons?

Well played.

Fwiw, he had nine and change the 3rd year. So, no.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Cedric was pretty good when he was here. I think we let him go at the right time though, although since Ellis was all we were gonna get to replace him, I'd just as soon have kept him for another year.

I wasnt sure about the BJGE signing, we essentially replaced Cedric with a back who offered the same amount of talent. This brings to light a bigger issue which is just what exactly do we want to do with our running backs. Frankly I dont think Jay Gruden and Jim Anderson are on the same page. I agree with Jim that we do need a back who can run it between the tackles 20 times a game, but when we sign one like the Law Firm, why in the hell are we running him outside the tackles, an area in which he is obviously weak at. Bernard Scott was supposed to be that change of pace and when he went down what did we do? Replace him with BJGE clones. I think there is a serious underlying conflict in the coaching staff to what talent we should exactly we should have in the backfield. Jim wants a guy who can purely pound it inside 20 times a game, and Jay wants a more diverse backfield. Unfortunatley Jim who is a Mike Brown good ole boy is going to get his way. Im hoping that in the draft we can find a back like Lacy who is a 3 down back who is big enough to pound it inside, break tackles, and he has some lateral agility that we havent seen in our last two feature backs.

[RoadHazard]

Originally Posted by bfine32

This debate took over another thread, so I thought I start one to discuss the issue at hand.

During his tenure here he rushed for over a 1000 yards in 3 consecutive seasons; a feat only matched by CJ2K, MJD, Ray Rice, and Steven Jackson in the same timeframe.

Keep in mind during Ced's tenure here we only ranked above 16th in passing yards once. So it wasn't like defenses had to play the pass.

Great post and 100% agree! Also lets not forget 2010 and 2011 OL was very bad in the middle, He had to bounce the play to the outside on most plays (and that was not his strong game). BJGE had a much better line Boling (played pretty solid this season, and not like a star struck lil girl) and Zietler played a lot better than Boling and Livings last year, and still only got what benson averaged.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by yellowxdiscipline

I wasnt sure about the BJGE signing, we essentially replaced Cedric with a back who offered the same amount of talent. This brings to light a bigger issue which is just what exactly do we want to do with our running backs. Frankly I dont think Jay Gruden and Jim Anderson are on the same page. I agree with Jim that we do need a back who can run it between the tackles 20 times a game, but when we sign one like the Law Firm, why in the hell are we running him outside the tackles, an area in which he is obviously weak at. Bernard Scott was supposed to be that change of pace and when he went down what did we do? Replace him with BJGE clones. I think there is a serious underlying conflict in the coaching staff to what talent we should exactly we should have in the backfield. Jim wants a guy who can purely pound it inside 20 times a game, and Jay wants a more diverse backfield. Unfortunatley Jim who is a Mike Brown good ole boy is going to get his way. Im hoping that in the draft we can find a back like Lacy who is a 3 down back who is big enough to pound it inside, break tackles, and he has some lateral agility that we havent seen in our last two feature backs.

Slightly off topic but the Eagles hired Duce Staley as an assistant RB coach, so why don't we bring in Corey Dillon or James Brooks as an assistant RB coach?

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Bryan

Slightly off topic but the Eagles hired Duce Staley as an assistant RB coach, so why don't we bring in Corey Dillon or James Brooks as an assistant RB coach?

1.) Corey Dillion would never come work here again. Plus, I don't see him as the coaching type.

2.) James Brooks can't read. I'm not being mean, I'm serious though. This could be a problem.

But I wouldn't mind bringing some fresh blood. Garrison Hearst maybe? Harold Green? There's probably a lot of former players that could do well given the chance.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

1.) Corey Dillion would never come work here again. Plus, I don't see him as the coaching type.

2.) James Brooks can't read. I'm not being mean, I'm serious though. This could be a problem.

But I wouldn't mind bringing some fresh blood. Garrison Hearst maybe? Harold Green? There's probably a lot of former players that could do well given the chance.

Seriously? And didn't Hobson interview Dillon a few years back when he was inducted into our websites HOF? If I remember correctly Dillon was trying to mend some bridges.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Bryan

Seriously? And didn't Hobson interview Dillon a few years back when he was inducted into our websites HOF? If I remember correctly Dillon was trying to mend some bridges.

No, he really can't read. (see below) Like I said, I'm not being a *****, but I would think that is a major concern when looking to add someone to the staff.

http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/12...cant_read.html

http://diverseeducation.com/article/10/

http://falsehustle.blogspot.com/2008...e-athlete.html

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

No, he really can't read. (see below) Like I said, I'm not being a *****, but I would think that is a major concern when looking to add someone to the staff.

http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/12...cant_read.html

http://diverseeducation.com/article/10/

http://falsehustle.blogspot.com/2008...e-athlete.html

Well, I'm sure he wouldn't need to read too much if he's teaching them by example.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Bryan

Well, I'm sure he wouldn't need to read too much if he's teaching them by example.

Do you know how many itineraries, playbooks, etc are probably handed out throughout the course of the year? Even the logistics of things like reading a menu or checking in or out of a hotel may prove to be difficult. Forget about emails and texting among coaches. I'm sorry, but I don't think a situation like that translates very well to being a member of a professional coaching staff.

It may sound stupid, or like I'm an a-hole, but really think about the reality of the situation. I just don't see it being feasible on a long term basis.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Do you know how many itineraries, playbooks, etc are probably handed out throughout the course of the year? Even the logistics of things like reading a menu or checking in or out of a hotel may prove to be difficult. Forget about emails and texting among coaches. I'm sorry, but I don't think that translate very well to be a member of a professional coaching staff.

It may sound stupid, or like I'm an a-hole, but really think about the reality of the situation. I just don't see it being feasible on a long term basis.

No, you're absolutely right. But I'm speaking about him coaching purely the fine points of the position, like how to plant a foot a certain way in order to make would be tacklers look dumb.