Bengals Learn Your Lesson From Losing Joseph In FA

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Just because the same foot was injured more than once doesn't mean it is the same injury or related to a previous injury.

If you want to claim he injured the same foot more than once, fine. If you want to claim he had the same injury, show your evidence it was the same injury. However, you can't show that evidence because you don't have it and we both know it.

http://cin.scout.com/a.z?s=117&p=2&c...%2f814354.html

The Bengals lost their third defensive starter to the IR list on Friday when cornerback Johnathan Joseph’s season was ended by a recurring foot injury.


http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...i81121055.html

Joseph missed two early games with the injury, but had played in six straight games before aggravating it Sunday against Philadelphia. He didn't play in Thursday night's loss at Pittsburgh


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12290374

The 2008 season was supposed to be their breakout season together. But a re-occurring foot injury has limited Joseph the past two seasons. He broke it in the spring of 2007, and then broke it again in the 10th game of 2008, ending his season.

"It's one of those things that has held me back," Joseph said. "I'm just hoping it doesn't happen again."

[THE PISTONS]

To me, the point about Joseph's foot injury is moot.

The Bengals tried to re-sign him and he took a deal to go to the Texans. Once again, it isn't like the Bengals intentionally let him walk because of injury history.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Show me the balance sheet of lost vs. retained.

That's discussed below. The fact is we only have 4 players on this team that were drafted by the Bengals from 2007 or before.

We do retain guys like Cook and Presley also. But they weren't drafted by us and aren't really core players.

I'd say we are average to other teams at keeping our own players and I'm not using guys like Rucker and Fanene as big losses.

[THE PISTONS]

The best thing I can say about losing Joseph in hindsight is that the NFL has really transitioned to an offensive league over the past 2 years with the rule changes. I would rather invest $10 million into a WR than a CB.

On defense, it's all about having a pass rush because without that, CB's don't matter as much.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by FootballBender

If it makes you happy, I just bought a used copy of Madden12 and I re-signed Joseph.

I traded Ocho to Pats for 2 1st rounders, traded Rivers for 2 1st rounders and traded Palmer to Raiders. That was the most difficult trade.

I tried to get Gradkowski along with draft picks. Problem was, the Raiders didn't want Palmer (which I found was hilarious) but ended up getting two 3rd rounders for Palmer and signed Grad the following year.

I only simulate the Franchise mode seasons. So far, they finished 6-10 the 1st year and 8-8 the following year. I had to make adjustments to Dalton, Green & Atkins ratings to make them more realistic. My 1st draft, I went straight for a FS and SS. I'm about to build a winning football team and dominate. This mode will get me through the real offseason until FA and draft time.

I like the Maddn 12 and I just got it for Christmas....I'm 58 and the wife wanted to get me something, and the PlayStation 2 stuff are all new games to me. So besides being The Godfather or Scarface or Lord of the Rings, I've been on the franchise mode of this same game you are on.....and yes they gave Dalton, Green, Atkins lousy ratings yet have Ocho listed as some great star....At first I wanted to gather our Bengals players, but this game going into 2011 makes it impossible. I did immediatly dump Ochos contract and Carsons....I've discovered that in Madden, the draft stinks because you often are paying big money to a bum. So I just look for who the best young players are on other teams and trade my top picks. I traded the Bengals picks in rounds 1, 2 and 3 for a great middle linebacker only 22 years old on another team, and I was set at MLB for years. ......Trading the picks only makes sense in Madden because Madden doesn't give you a clue how good the rookie picks are. .....So you have to do things different than real football.....I'm in year 25 of 30 years and I've made the Brown family over 300 million in profit....and gone to the play-offs most of the time and won the Super Bowl a few times ( letting the computer simutate the game scores based on my team and coaching style ).......I try to keep the team young and talented at starters, and every year I fill in the bench with the best lowest paid one year contracts, and that gets me to have all these great 22 starters under the salary cap in Madden.....and as owner I give away things every Christmas season in a fan appreciation game, uniform jerseys or hooded sweaters or NFL footballs, something for the kids and family, but I don't spend a dime on advertising, so I can do this instead. ......anyway, it's a fun game, kind of like playing Monopoly only with an NFL team.....I learned I have no use for draft picks in this Madden game, in this game I'ld rather trade them for a good young player. .........

Anyway, we are both playing the same game......yes, I traded Carson but I found few takers and sure didn't get what the Raiders gave Mike Brown. ...Heres a hint on you playing this game, watch out trading or dumping guys with 2 years or more of a contract, you really get hit on the cap penalties the next year....old guys with their contracts up or with 1 year left are the time to move them. You may have to put up with some slug when you start if he has a long contract, until it's financialy possible to unload him. ....Example was one year I was 100 million over the cap. I knew that had to be a mistake so I didn't spend the money. It was to good to be true and the next year I was 100 million over the cap, but by not spending the cash I was able to field a team and move on. This came from trading all my old players for young players, but the contracts and cap penalties had hidden problems. There is a way you can go young in this game and avoid the cap hits. ....Not a bad game, like Monopoly.,,,I would never have drafted Weeden in this game, why would I want a 29 year old rookie. My way, I trade the top picks for some other teams young QB or just get a young free agent QB. At 29, I start looking to unload players in Madden. No way I would want a 29 year old rookie..........Oh, the stadium upgrades are funny. I try to keep PB Stadium at an excellent rating with good improvements, but some of these things are too silly to spend money on, such as climate control at each seat. No way I want everybody in the stadium all trying to change the thermostat all game long if you add the retractable cover at some point. . I saw no need for massages in the luxury suits. Good chefs was a good idea though.

I know Madden selling point is that if it's in the game, it's in the game....but you really have to do this alot different than the real game in franchise mode because the draft is horrible. In real life, I look forward to the Bengals draft....in this, I'm just trading off draft picks for other teams players.

Yes, I did keep Joseph and Hall together in this and why not, who was I going to get that was better than these two and both were still kind of young. Plus it's 20/20 hindsight now...I knew better than to let him go.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

That's discussed below. The fact is we only have 4 players on this team that were drafted by the Bengals from 2007 or before.

We do retain guys like Cook and Presley also. But they weren't drafted by us and aren't really core players.

I'd say we are average to other teams at keeping our own players and I'm not using guys like Rucker and Fanene as big losses.

Not too odd really as the average career of a player making a roster as a rookie is merely 6 years.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

http://cin.scout.com/a.z?s=117&p=2&c...%2f814354.html

The Bengals lost their third defensive starter to the IR list on Friday when cornerback Johnathan Joseph’s season was ended by a recurring foot injury.


http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...i81121055.html

Joseph missed two early games with the injury, but had played in six straight games before aggravating it Sunday against Philadelphia. He didn't play in Thursday night's loss at Pittsburgh


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12290374

The 2008 season was supposed to be their breakout season together. But a re-occurring foot injury has limited Joseph the past two seasons. He broke it in the spring of 2007, and then broke it again in the 10th game of 2008, ending his season.

"It's one of those things that has held me back," Joseph said. "I'm just hoping it doesn't happen again."

Fred, you're falling for the same bone bruise trap. You're just repeating what some other idiot wrote about Joseph's injury who doesn't know any more than you do. Just like with Braham's bone brusie which was really a tibial plateau fracture.

I would think a criminal defense lawyer would know the difference between hearsay and objective evidence. Apparently not.

Also, you're a self-annointed bone bruise expert because you know the Bengals' medical staff misdiagnosed and mismanaged Braham's bone bruise. But, you admitted "I don't know anything about bone swelling" in the setting of a stress fracture on an MRI report. I have to admit I howled with laughter at your expense about your inability to recognize a bone bruise based upon an MRI report since you're such a bone bruise expert. (Still waiting for my "thank you" for the bone bruise consult, btw.)

Pay attention, counselor.

September 2004 Foot Injury
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2533400

A broken right foot limited Joseph to just two appearances in his first season with the Gamecocks.

June 2007 Foot Injury
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-...5-D5EE51E20F36

It turns out the Bengals suffered a significant injury this weekend when cornerback Johnathan Joseph got hurt Saturday afternoon and now has his left foot in a boot, shelving him for the last two weeks of spring workouts. But head coach Marvin Lewis said Sunday that Joseph will be ready for training camp in seven weeks.

Joseph, arguably the Bengals' best defensive player, suffered what appears to be some kind of a fracture because Lewis said Joseph plans to get surgery.

November 2008 Foot Injury
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-...0-9230c8ff667e

That's why he planted himself on the divan immediately following Dec. 3 surgery on his right foot to repair a recurring stress fracture that wiped out the last six games.

So Fred, was the one and only left foot fracture in 2007 recurring? Was the one and only left foot fracture related to the original right foot fracture in 2004? Was the one and only left foot fracture the cause of the 2008 right foot fracture? Inquiring minds want to know, counselor.

Was the second right foot fracture in 2008 related to the original right foot fracture in 2004 after playing on that foot for almost four seasons at the highest level of collegiate and professional sport?

Well, since you're a bone bruise expert who can't recognize a bone bruise with your mother's MRI report staring you in the face I have zero confindence in your ability to tell me if they are related or unrelated. But, since I can recognize a bone bruise from your description of your mother's MRI, I'll tell you if they are related or unrelated.

They 2004 fracture and the 2008 fracture are two unrelated fractures that occured in the same foot seperated by over 4 years. How do I know this? Because he played on the foot without it causing him to miss another game for over 3 plus seasons. Because once the bone had healed it would require the same amount of force to break the bone a second time as it required the first time it was broken. Although you don't know this, but I do. If you got punched in the nose and it was broken in 2004 and then punched in the nose again in 2008 and it was broken again, does that mean you had a recurring broken nose or two seperate broken noses on two seperate occasions? It would mean you suffered two seperate broken noses on two seperate occasions.

And still to this day, you can't tell me which bone in his foot was broken and if it was the same bone which was broken in 2004 and 2008. For all you know, it was two different bones. Just like it was two different feet which were fractured in 2007 and 2008 yet your links "prove" a left foot fracture and a right foot fracture were related and recurring.

[TheBengals]

I don't think anyone has learned anything, really.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Fred, you're falling for the same bone bruise trap. You're just repeating what some other idiot wrote about Joseph's injury who doesn't know any more than you do. Just like with Braham's bone brusie which was really a tibial plateau fracture.

I would think a criminal defense lawyer would know the difference between hearsay and objective evidence. Apparently not.

Also, you're a self-annointed bone bruise expert because you know the Bengals' medical staff misdiagnosed and mismanaged Braham's bone bruise. But, you admitted "I don't know anything about bone swelling" in the setting of a stress fracture on an MRI report. I have to admit I howled with laughter at your expense about your inability to recognize a bone bruise based upon an MRI report since you're such a bone bruise expert. (Still waiting for my "thank you" for the bone bruise consult, btw.)

Pay attention, counselor.

September 2004 Foot Injury
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2533400



June 2007 Foot Injury
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-...5-D5EE51E20F36




November 2008 Foot Injury
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-...0-9230c8ff667e



So Fred, was the one and only left foot fracture in 2007 recurring? Was the one and only left foot fracture related to the original right foot fracture in 2004? Was the one and only left foot fracture the cause of the 2008 right foot fracture? Inquiring minds want to know, counselor.

Was the second right foot fracture in 2008 related to the original right foot fracture in 2004 after playing on that foot for almost four seasons at the highest level of collegiate and professional sport?

Well, since you're a bone bruise expert who can't recognize a bone bruise with your mother's MRI report staring you in the face I have zero confindence in your ability to tell me if they are related or unrelated. But, since I can recognize a bone bruise from your description of your mother's MRI, I'll tell you if they are related or unrelated.

They 2004 fracture and the 2008 fracture are two unrelated fractures that occured in the same foot seperated by over 4 years. How do I know this? Because he played on the foot without it causing him to miss another game for over 3 plus seasons. Because once the bone had healed it would require the same amount of force to break the bone a second time as it required the first time it was broken. Although you don't know this, but I do. If you got punched in the nose and it was broken in 2004 and then punched in the nose again in 2008 and it was broken again, does that mean you had a recurring broken nose or two seperate broken noses on two seperate occasions? It would mean you suffered two seperate broken noses on two seperate occasions.

And still to this day, you can't tell me which bone in his foot was broken and if it was the same bone which was broken in 2004 and 2008. For all you know, it was two different bones. Just like it was two different feet which were fractured in 2007 and 2008 yet your links "prove" a left foot fracture and a right foot fracture were related and recurring.

I am howling with laughter at you because you were wrong about my mother. She doesn't have a bone bruise. She has a stress fracture which is different from a bone bruise. Maybe you should ask a real doctor about the difference. The funny thing is that even though I specifically said she had a stress fracture with bone swelling in my thread you still misdiagnosed it as a bone bruise instead of a fracture. Now do you understand why I never bothereed to thank you for your amatuer and laughably incorrect consult?

Also you have no clue about Joseph's injuries. All you have is the exact same evidence that i do, and that is a number af articles describing his injury as "recurring".

Also if you were a real doctor you would know that a bone does not always heal back properly. So your claim that once a bone is healed it is as strong as it was before is not always true.

So maybe you should spend a little more time studying instead of trying to puff yourself up on a message board.

And finally Joseph's own comments based on his own observations about his injury are not heresay. They are objective evidence. I know this because I am a real licensed attorney while you are just a play pretend doctor..

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

I am howling with laughter at you because you were wrong about my mother. She doesn't have a bone bruise. She has a stress fracture which is different from a bone bruise. Maybe you should ask a real doctor about the difference. The funny thing is that even though I specifically said she had a stress fracture with bone swelling in my thread you still misdiagnosed it as a bone bruise instead of a fracture. Now do you understand why I never bothereed to thank you for your amatuer and laughably incorrect consult?

This is what you asked...

Originally Posted by fredtoast

After an MRI the doctor told her that she had stress fractures and bone swelling. She was not familiar with stress fractures and did not understand if the bone swelling caused the stress fracture or if the stress fracture caused the bone swelling.

I did a little research and found about 60 different causes for bone swelling, but I am still unclear on what exactly happened to her. I know about stress fractures, but I can't think of anything my mother was doing that would have caused them. I don't know anything about bone swelling. Anyone know anything about this condition?

This is what I wrote...

Originally Posted by Wingnut

A bone bruise. That's what bone swelling is. A bone bruise. It is only visible on an MRI. It can't be seen on an xray or CT scan. The MRI reveals increased fluid and blood within the bone at the site of injury. The stress fracture caused the bone swelling.

You asked what bone swelling was in the setting of a stress fracture and I explained what bone swelling with a stress fracture was. In the setting of a stress fracture, bone swelling is a bone bruise caused by the stress fracture. I never claimed she only had a bone bruise nor that she didn't have a stress fracture. You asked what the bone swelling was and I explained what the bone swelling was. I also explained what caused the bone swelling. It isn't my fault you aren't intelligent enough to comprehend the explanation. I don't know how to dumb it down for you any further than the stress fracture caused the bone swelling and bone swelling is a bone bruise. Still waiting on the "thank you," btw.

Also you have no clue about Joseph's injuries. All you have is the exact same evidence that i do, and that is a number af articles describing his injury as "recurring".

You mean the evidence that shows he didn't break the same foot when your "evidence" claimed it was a recurring injury affecting the same foot? Oh, well if that's the case then I guess you can't believer everything you read in the media, Fred. Which is my entire point, Fred. You don't have any actual objective evidence yet you pretend to know what is wrong based upon media reports which are only correct when you say they are correct and incorrect when anyone else says they are correct.

I have no clue about his injuries, but you do? Even though you can't tell me his diagnosis or even which bone he broke? Or even that it wasn't the same foot everytime like you suggested?

Also if you were a real doctor you would know that a bone does not always heal back properly. So your claim that once a bone is healed it is as strong as it was before is not always true.

I never claimed to be a doctor. I claim to be a PA-C which requires just a tiny bit more medical education than a criminal defense lawyer. If his bone wasn't healed he wouldn't have passed all those physicals at the University of South Carolina, the NFL Combine, and the Cincinnati Bengals to play 3+ seasons on his foot without it causing him to miss at least one game, or a half, or a quarter, or a series, or a single play in a game...or practice. If you can play one season of SEC football and two plus seasons of NFL football that bone is fully healed and it would require just as much force to break it a second time as it did the first time. Regardless of what some Honoluluwhatever.com website or a lawyer with absolutely zero medical education claims. I never claimed a bone always heals as strong as it was before. That's a strawman.

So maybe you should spend a little more time studying instead of trying to puff yourself up on a message board.

And finally Joseph's own comments based on his own observations about his injury are not heresay. They are objective evidence.

You should spend a little less time making stuff up and just admit when you are wrong instead of continuing your charade.

What did Joseph say?

"I'm just hoping it doesn't happen again."

I'm sure he is hoping he doesn't break his foot again. Was he referring to breaking the left foot again or the right foot again?

Just because he hopes he doesn't break his foot again, doesn't mean it is a recurring injury.

I'm sure Mohamed Sanu hopes he doesn't break his foot again, but that doesn't mean he has a recurring fracture.

I know this because I am a real licensed attorney while you are just a play pretend doctor..

A real licensed attorney without any medical education or experience who still cannot tell me what bone Joseph broke. In either foot. Ever.

There are 26 bones in the foot. Sometimes more depending upon accessory bones which can vary from person to person. When describing a fracture and determining if it is a recurring fracture you must be able to identify which bone is broken WHICH YOU HAVE NOT AND CANNOT DO. Without that critical piece of information you're just blowing smoke up our butts.

"It is a tale, Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

You asked what bone swelling was in the setting of a stress fracture and I explained what bone swelling with a stress fracture was. In the setting of a stress fracture, bone swelling is a bone bruise caused by the stress fracture. I never claimed she only had a bone bruise nor that she didn't have a stress fracture. You asked what the bone swelling was and I explained what the bone swelling was. I also explained what caused the bone swelling. It isn't my fault you aren't intelligent enough to comprehend the explanation. I don't know how to dumb it down for you any further than the stress fracture caused the bone swelling and bone swelling is a bone bruise. Still waiting on the "thank you," btw.

Except that you are completely wrong playdoc.

She asked her REAL doctor and he told her that she did not have a bone bruise. I don't know what the difference is between a stress fracture with swelling and a bone bruise but I trust a real doctor over a pretend one.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

You should spend a little less time making stuff up and just admit when you are wrong instead of continuing your charade.

What did Joseph say?

"I'm just hoping it doesn't happen again."

I'm sure he is hoping he doesn't break his foot again. Was he referring to breaking the left foot again or the right foot again?

Just because he hopes he doesn't break his foot again, doesn't mean it is a recurring injury.

I'm sure Mohamed Sanu hopes he doesn't break his foot again, but that doesn't mean he has a recurring fracture.

Except Joseph made this comment in middle of the '08 season when he went down after THE EXACT SAME INJURY RECURRED. He had missed time earlier in the season, and whe he returned the injury recurred. Everyone said that. When they asked Joseph about it he said he hoped it didn't happen again.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Not too odd really as the average career of a player making a roster as a rookie is merely 6 years.

More of our players drafted by us in 2007 or before are playing on other teams than ours.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Except that you are completely wrong playdoc.

She asked her REAL doctor and he told her that she did not have a bone bruise. I don't know what the difference is between a stress fracture with swelling and a bone bruise but I trust a real doctor over a pretend one.

That seems like an excellent question to ask your mother's REAL doctor to explain to you.

A bone bruise by its very definition is an occult bone lesion that causes edema, or "bone swelling", within the bone and is associated with some sort of injury of insufficient force to cause a fracture which can be detected with a xray. The edema cannot be seen on an xray, CT scan, or bone scan. The edema can only be detected with an MRI.

Does your mother have an injury? Check. She has a stress fracture so something caused an injury. Does your mother have edema within the bone? Check. You stated she has "bone swelling". Was the edema within the bone detected with a MRI? Check.

So if your mother has all the elements of the defintion of a bone bruise surrounding the stress fracture, why doesn't she have a bone bruise surrounding the area which was injured causing the stress fracture?

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Except Joseph made this comment in middle of the '08 season when he went down after THE EXACT SAME INJURY RECURRED. He had missed time earlier in the season, and whe he returned the injury recurred. Everyone said that. When they asked Joseph about it he said he hoped it didn't happen again.

Really? He missed time earlier in the season with the exact same injury? And after he returned "THE EXACT SAME INJURY RECURRED"? Final answer, counselor?

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-...F-993A3FEDE4E7

http://www.nfl.com/fantasyfootball/s...-report-week-3

http://www.nfl.com/fantasyfootball/s...-injury-report

And Joseph should be able to play all the way for the first time since injuring his ankle Sept. 14.

Is an ankle injury the same as a foot injury, Fred?

I've never claimed to be a REAL doctor, just a PA-C who exams, diagnoses, and treats orthopedic injuries as part of my job description; but no, an ankle injury is not the same as a foot injury. The foot and the ankle are two distinctly different body parts. But, as a criminal defense lawyer without any objective evidence, medical education, or the ability to tell me which bone in the foot was broken; you probably are unaware the ankle and the foot are two distinctly different body parts. Just like you were unaware a left foot fracture in 2007 and a right foot fracture in 2008 are unrelated and not considered recurring...unless you're a criminal defense lawyer who is just making stuff up without any real knowledge of the situation and is only regurgitating what he read at Honolulusomething_or_other.com.

See Fred, when Joseph broke a bone in his foot in November 2008, the injury required season ending surgery and he was done for the year.

When Joseph injured his ankle in September 2008, the injury required two weeks of rest before he could continue to play until he suffered a DIFFERENT and season ending injury to a body part unrelated to the ankle injury.

He injured a different body part which required radically different treatment with a completely different prognosis.

Thus, your statement "THE EXACT SAME INJURY RECURRED" is completely false. Again. You make a habit of being wrong.

[THE PISTONS]

Whether Joseph was injury prone or not is irrelevant because the Bengals made him a pretty large offer. Its not like they just let him walk due to injury history. They tried to retain him.

[Lolli]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Spikes did not want to be here.

Walter was a back up.

Brooks was a bust.

Madieu, Steinbach, and TJ were overpaid. If we had given them the same contracts they got from other teams then fans here would be saying that Mike Brown made a mistake giving them that kind of money.

I think you are being too specific. Take the names out of it. Do not worry about whether or not we should have or should not have kept player X and what their real market value is.

Just look at the results, not the failure mode. We only have 4 players on our team that we drafted that are past their initial contract.

[Lolli]

Originally Posted by Stewy

No he wouldn't. No he wouldn't. No he wouldn't. No he wouldn't. You and all like you need to stop saying this because it is patently UNTRUE.

I have stated over and over, so maybe one day people will listen. I know I've replied specifically about this before, but people can keep believing in the JJoe fantasy, but I'll state it again so maybe one day people will come out of thier fantasy world.

I live in Houston. When JJoe signed here he did extensive interviews with the local ESPN Radio affiliate. In multiple interviews over the weeks after FA, JJoe stated clearly, plainly and specifically, that the Bengals made him a good and equal offer, but it was TIME TO MOVE ON. When asked to elaborate, he would not. He just kept saying that it was time to move on. In multiple interviews. Over multiple weeks.

We made him a good offer. He didn't want to be here. He moved on. By his own words. He was never coming back. DEAL WITH IT.

Once again, I refer you to the time line post.

We wanted to be here BEFORE the Palmer fiasco. After it, not so much. I do not think any reasonable person would blame a player for not wanting to be a part of the team during that time. If you wanted to win, it was time to move on. This team was a disaster. They dumb lucked their way out of it.

[Lolli]

Originally Posted by Stewy

Ha! Great find! Color me corrected!

I will note however, that this was before the season of 2010. Obviously, something changed his mind, and that something was most likely the CP debacle. Again this doesn't mean the FO wasn't trying, and actually this interview renforces my key point, which was he had decided to leave. He'd had enough. He wasn't staying. The 2010 disaster and CP gate was enough for him to look elsewhere.

Again. Timeline. The CP fiasco hit the fan BEFORE the Franchise Tag deadline. If he is your must sign guy. And just changed his tune about staying. You tag him.

The FO screwed the pooch.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Whether Joseph was injury prone or not is irrelevant because the Bengals made him a pretty large offer. Its not like they just let him walk due to injury history. They tried to retain him.

The relevance is Fred claims Joseph was too much of an injury risk to give that much guaranteed money to re-sign because he had a recurring injury.

However, Fred is just repeating what somebody else reported in the media who doesn't have any more information than Fred does.

Everytime Fred produces some "evidence" to prove his false allegations are true, the "evidence" blows up in Fred's face and he proves his own false allegations are indeed false.

Like the earlier 2008 injury recurred later in the season, except the eariler injury involved his ankle, not his foot.

Or the 2008 foot injury was a recurrence of the 2007 foot injury, except the two injuries involved different feet.

Or the 2008 foot injury was a recurrence of the 2004 foot injury, however he played CB at the highest levels for almost 4 years without the right foot causing him to miss playing time proving that foot was fully healed. And he can't tell anyone which of the 26 bones in the foot was injured.

But, but, but..."everyone said that" Joseph had a recurring injury just like everyone said that Braham had a bone bruise, too. That doesn't mean what everyone reported in the media is true. Once again, Fred has fallen for the bone bruise trap which reminds me of an idiom, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

This guy said it best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A