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  #51  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
What if were looking at a QB and I only pointed to his yards. I said "Look, this guy threw for 4,000 yards so he is"...

And what if that QB happened to have averaged 40 throws a game, had a 50% completion percentage, and threw 25 picks on the year. Oh and he only threw for 25 TD's as well. Would knowing all of that need to be weighed in how you value him, or would we only need to look at the 4,000 yard number?

A.) Of course everything would be weighed.

So why is it different with running backs? Why do some on here only point to yards, and think other people are simply hating on the guy when bringing up his YPC and fumbles in determining what his ultimate value was?

Cedric Benson was near the bottom of the league in YPC. He never did much in the passing game. And he had almost as many fumbles as he did TD's. He didn't have many long runs, and he was a terrible teammate at times.

SO WHY IS IT SO UNFAIR TO SAY HE WAS AVERAGE?!?!?!?!

There are 32 teams in the NFL. Meaning they're are 32 starting running backs. So if you start at yards alone, he's probably around 7-14 range, I'm guessing, in each individual full year he was here.

Ok, we have a starting number b/t 7-14, right? Then let's look at other factors. YPC, receptions, TD's. big plays, fumbles, team's overall record, etc, etc. etc.

Where would you guys rank him? Why is so unfair to say he's probably somewhere in that 12-20 range (Average)? Do catches not count? Guys like Ray Rice and Lesean McCoy don't get credit for that? Fumbles don't matter at all. All we go off is yards? Why?

I really can't believe this needed another thread. Rudi Johnson accomplished a whole lot more than Cedric Benson, yet I never hear him getting a lot of praise on here. I don't get why we're even wasting our time at this point. The guy was ok, but certainly not great. He was kinda a little ***** at times, and we never won squat with him. I hope he makes some other lucky team extremely happy, but somehow I really doubt it.
We swept and won the division off of him and got us awful close to beating the jets. I don't consider that squat. I remember in 08? How terribly our run game was till they brought him in off the street. I get what your saying, but with what he had he did a good job
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

I liked Ced. He did well for us. I know he got frustrated because when no one else was performing (Carson, Ocho, etc), Ced wanted to carry the load on his shoulders.

But, he did seem to be declining last season. And, of course this past season he was hurt.

Once he got out of that toxic Bears situation, he was a good (not great) RB.

I hope he can bounce back (but I highly doubt it).
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

Ced was a good runner and ran people over but he was a true cancer to the team.
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

I got no problem with Ced. He played his heart out. We probably kept him one year too many. I will say that he would have scored on some of those long runs BJGE had this year.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

Was a big Ced fan while he was here. Do believe we moved on at right time though.

Loved how in ran behind his pads and will never forget when Polamalu tried to take him on head first and become punch drunk after contact. Tried to run straight to bench but instead ran 10 yards sideways before falling over and requiring players to assist.

Not glad he was hurt, never pull for injuries. Even on steelers. But probably was the most savage collision that I have seen live. Was right in front of my seat.

Ced did not even flinch as he hustled back to the huddle.

Ced got bad rap about dancing in backfield in latter years. But there just were not holes to hit imo.
Ced is ok in my book. But he is the Bengals past and the the future RB is what is peaking my interest now.

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  #56  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by Go Cards View Post
Loved how in ran behind his pads and will never forget when Polamalu tried to take him on head first and become punch drunk after contact. Tried to run straight to bench but instead ran 10 yards sideways before falling over and requiring players to assist.

Not glad he was hurt, never pull for injuries. Even on steelers. But probably was the most savage collision that I have seen live. Was right in front of my seat.

Ced did not even flinch as he hustled back to the huddle.
That play alone would have made me a Ced fan. I think the league or Troy has had all links to that video removed. I cannot find it anywhere.
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  #57  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
This debate took over another thread, so I thought I start one to discuss the issue at hand.

During his tenure here he rushed for over a 1000 yards in 3 consecutive seasons; a feat only matched by CJ2K, MJD, Ray Rice, and Steven Jackson in the same timeframe.

Keep in mind during Ced's tenure here we only ranked above 16th in passing yards once. So it wasn't like defenses had to play the pass.
I always look to the YPA, he was a solid runningback, but other 2009 he was nothing spectatacular. 2009 he did impress me like crazy though.Teams would stack the box against us, and he would still shred them.
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  #58  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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That play alone would have made me a Ced fan. I think the league or Troy has had all links to that video removed. I cannot find it anywhere.
Troy bought the video and burned it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

His first season--was it '08--he gave us something worth watching in the midst of a horrible season. Will always love him for that.
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  #60  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

No doubt. In the last 20 years Ced has given us the best performance of any Bengal.

Corey Dillon

Rudi Johnson had a better 3 season stretch

and those are just 2 other backs in the same timeframe...


or were you speaking simply of playoffs?
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
No doubt. In the last 20 years Ced has given us the best performance of any Bengal.

Corey Dillon

Rudi Johnson had a better 3 season stretch

and those are just 2 other backs in the same timeframe...


or were you speaking simply of playoffs?
There is no doubt Corey was a much better Bengal and I personally think Rudi was as well; although, an argument could be made. I was talking post season, playing at an elite level, and giving us a chance to win. IMO the best since Dan Ross in 1982.
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  #62  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Seriously? And didn't Hobson interview Dillon a few years back when he was inducted into our websites HOF? If I remember correctly Dillon was trying to mend some bridges.
Stranger things have happened. I don't see it though. Dillon was pretty miffed at the Bengals when he was pulled from some games to keep him from getting bonuses.

That kind of bitterness usually stays with someone.

Read this for a "blast from the past" or "oldie but a goodie" if you're a newbie to this franachise. No wonder a lot of this teams fans got bitter as well.

Dillon hints at quitting
Brown not alarmed by players' 'frustration'

By Mark Curnutte mcurnutte@enquirer.com
The Cincinnati Enquirer


Bengals president Mike Brown chalks up two players' negative comments to frustration and refuses to discuss coach **** LeBeau's status.

On Monday, Bengals linebacker Takeo Spikes said the situation and attitude surrounding the franchise was the worst in his five years.

Also, three-time Pro Bowl running back Corey Dillon hinted that he might retire at the end of the season if major changes aren't made.

"They better get it right, or, at the end of the season, I've got a surprise for them," Dillon told a team employee in an interview posted on the Bengals' Web site.

After Tuesday's practice, Dillon refused to elaborate on his comments when approached by members of the independent media.

Brown was asked about his star players' comments earlier while watching practice.

"When you're in the position we're in, you're going to have this kind of thing," Brown said. "It's always a challenge for people to sit back and not flare out. "

"Heck, I've said things that aren't too dissimilar in the sense that, when I'm there and we're getting trounced, I might say something more than, 'Gee wiz."

"I think our guys are frustrated, they're hurt, and their comments reflect that. There isn't anybody down here who is feeling good about life right now."

LeBeau said he didn't read what Dillon and Spikes had said. Told what Dillon had said, LeBeau said, "If you talked to him today, you'd get a different story."

LeBeau's job appears to be safe for the season, but Brown said, "I just don't have anything to say about the coaching thing or a lot of things right now."

Dillon is in his sixth season with the Bengals. After the last game of his third season, 1999, Dillon said he would never play again for the Bengals and later said he would rather "flip burgers."

The Bengals are off to their second 0-6 start of Dillon's career.

The Bengals are the lowest-scoring team in the NFL, and their failure to mount a legitimate pass offense - they're ranked 30th of 32 teams - has allowed defenses to focus on stopping Dillon.

He takes a physical pounding each game, yet has just 24 victories in 86 games to show for his efforts.

"I'm tired of it," Dillon told the Web site. "Six years of this B.S. I ain't lying to you. I'm sick of this crap, period."

If he retires, Dillon would forfeit $6.3 million of his $10.5 million signing bonus. He signed a five-year contract worth an estimated $26 million in May 2001.

Dillon also would give up base salaries of $3 million, $3.3 million and $3.95 million in the next three years. His contract also includes the Bengals' standard loyalty clause, which gives the club the right to recoup signing bonus money paid to a player if he is excessively critical of team management in public.

Brown said Dillon didn't "go beyond the line" and violate the clause.

Dillon also told the team Web site that he has options other than playing out his contract."I've got plenty, believe that," he said.

Dillon has been the Bengals' superstar player since being drafted in the second round in 1997. He already is the leading rusher in franchise history and owns the NFL's individual single-game rushing record of 278 yards, set Oct. 22, 2000, in a victory over the Denver Broncos.

Dillon will turn 28 on Oct..24. In his time with the Bengals, he often has grown frustrated at the team's losing ways but - like Spikes - never let losing diminish his fierce determination to excel.

On Tuesday, Brown said losing is "one of the parts of our game. It's not a part we want to contend with. But when it comes on you, you have to face it and keep on keepin' on."

The Bengals were expected to snap their 11-year streak without a postseason appearance this season.

They finished 2001 with a 6-10 record, their best mark since 1997.
The Bengals are on pace to score the fewest and allow the most points in franchise history.
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  #63  
Old 01-26-2013, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
No doubt. I'll bet many of the anti-Ced group do not realize he has averaged more yards per carry in his career than Eddie George. Wonder if that group would call Eddie "mediocre"?
I know you've always been a huge Ced fan, but this is a strange comparison. Eddie George, was widely considered one of the best backs in the league his first 5 seasons ... not only did he produce more rushing yardage than Ced's career high in every single one of those five seasons, but he also had consistently more reception yards than Ced, including two seasons where his receiving yardage was more than double Ced's career high in receiving yards.

George was worked very hard his first five NFL season, and so his final four seasons were fairly pedestrian and had the effect of dragging down his career averages. But, nobody in their right minds called Eddie "mediocre" during his first 5 NFL seasons. By contrast, it's reasonable to call all but one of Ced's 8 NFL seasons mediocre. Ced did a good job for us at a time when we desperately needed some stability at RB, but was nothing more than mediocre and definitely a player we needed to upgrade from. After many people on these boards warned about how Ced was going to run riot in Green Bay now that he finally had a good O-line to block for him, fact is Ced was only averaging 3.5 yards/carry for the Pack when he got injured last year and had scored just 1 TD in five starts. Even on another team, he wasn't looking anything special. Heck, nobody thinks Green-Ellis is any kind of big playmaker at RB, and even so he had 7 runs of 20+ yards this season and 2 of 40+ ... that's more than Ced had in those two categories in 2010 and 2011 combined.

Last edited by Ryan Mc; 01-26-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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  #64  
Old 01-26-2013, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
I know you've always been a huge Ced fan, but this is a strange comparison. Eddie George, was widely considered one of the best backs in the league his first 5 seasons ... not only did he produce more rushing yardage than Ced's career high in every single one of those five seasons, but he also had consistently more reception yards than Ced, including two seasons where his receiving yardage was more than double Ced's career high in receiving yards.

George was worked very hard his first five NFL season, and so his final four seasons were fairly pedestrian and had the effect of dragging down his career averages. But, nobody in their right minds called Eddie "mediocre" during his first 5 NFL seasons. By contrast, it's reasonable to call all but one of Ced's 8 NFL seasons mediocre. Ced did a good job for us at a time when we desperately needed some stability at RB, but was nothing more than mediocre and definitely a player we needed to upgrade from. After many people on these boards warned about how Ced was going to run riot in Green Bay now that he finally had a good O-line to block for him, fact is Ced was only averaging 3.5 yards/carry for the Pack when he got injured last year and had scored just 1 TD in five starts. Even on another team, he wasn't looking anything special. Heck, nobody thinks Green-Ellis is any kind of big playmaker at RB, and even so he had 7 runs of 20+ yards this season and 2 of 40+ ... that's more than Ced had in those two categories in 2010 and 2011 combined.
Ironically enough, that is right at George's Career YPC of 3.6. Point is those that suggest Ced's tenure here was mediocre at best and in many cases terrible, would most likely never describe Eddie George in those terms. In George's career he only surpassed the magical 4.0 YPC twice (4.1 both times). Folks can't say "Well look at Ced's fumbles" cause Eddie George had 35 in his career

Bottom line is Ced was an Eddie George type runner while he was here; got his yards by being constantly fed and I wonder would anybody call Eddie mediocre or terrible
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Loved Benson. Very thankful for what he did here. His last season here, I could tell it was time for him to go. It was sad, really. Benson did very well here, and I liked him. Yeah, he wanted the ball, and sometimes he did need to get it.

I will never forget his game against the Jets in the playoffs. That game was probably his best. He earned every yard and kept fighting.

Much respect to Benson. Because he deserves it.
Yes that game he tried everything to get us there.... he really tried to get us that playoff win... Awesome.. Thanks.. Benson!!
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:31 PM
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Ironically enough, that is right at George's Career YPC of 3.6. Point is those that suggest Ced's tenure here was mediocre at best and in many cases terrible, would most likely never describe Eddie George in those terms. In George's career he only surpassed the magical 4.0 YPC twice (4.1 both times). Folks can't say "Well look at Ced's fumbles" cause Eddie George had 35 in his career

Bottom line is Ced was an Eddie George type runner while he was here; got his yards by being constantly fed and I wonder would anybody call Eddie mediocre or terrible
Still not sure it makes sense to use George's career numbers. His last four years in the league he put up fairly pedestrian numbers and I think during that time many people did acknowledge he was past his prime and had become mediocre. However, he was very productive in his prime ... Ced's numbers with the Bengals are mediocre in comparison to George's first five seasons when he was making 4 Pro Bowls. In other words, George had two phases to his career, the first where he was definitely not mediocre. With Ced, 2009 is really the only season in his entire career where it would be harsh to say he was mediocre.

Last edited by Ryan Mc; 01-26-2013 at 04:39 PM.
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  #67  
Old 01-26-2013, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

Ced was good here.....ill never say he wasnt. He gets hate because of the fumbles and his attitude. But he gave us good years. He may have broke 1500 at least once if he was faster, our line opened good holes for him. I liked how he attacked the hole hard...sometimes he danced and didnt have great BC vision to see holes that arent there yet but as a battering ram he was great.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
Ironically enough, that is right at George's Career YPC of 3.6. Point is those that suggest Ced's tenure here was mediocre at best and in many cases terrible, would most likely never describe Eddie George in those terms. In George's career he only surpassed the magical 4.0 YPC twice (4.1 both times). Folks can't say "Well look at Ced's fumbles" cause Eddie George had 35 in his career

Bottom line is Ced was an Eddie George type runner while he was here; got his yards by being constantly fed and I wonder would anybody call Eddie mediocre or terrible
Eddie George was a very good RB in his prime (I never felt he was great). He was the ultimate "bell-cow" (as far as taking a ton of carries and staying healthy), but when you compare his numbers to elite RBs, his YPC was pretty average even in his prime years.

In his first 5 seasons, George touched the ball an average of 385 times. That's why his prime was so short. The Oilers/Titans ran him into the ground. He did manage 3.90 YPC in those seasons though. However, in his final four seasons, his YPC was a measly 3.24. He was a shell of himself. That dragged his career YPC down to 3.6, and that's why you're using him as an example.

You had to bring up a RB that retired in 2004 because there simply aren't many examples of good bell-cow RB's that averaged around the 3.76 that Benson has for his career.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:03 PM
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Still not sure it makes sense to use George's career numbers. His last four years in the league he put up fairly pedestrian numbers and I think during that time many people did acknowledge he was past his prime and had become mediocre. However, he was very productive in his prime ... Ced's numbers with the Bengals are mediocre in comparison to George's first five seasons when he was making 4 Pro Bowls. In other words, George had two phases to his career, the first where he was definitely not mediocre. With Ced, 2009 is really the only season in his entire career where it would be harsh to say he was mediocre.
George's 1st 5 seasons in the league he still averaged under 4 YPC. During that thime he averaged 3.9 YPC, Ced averaged 3.8 YPC while here. Not sure what else I can do for you to show they were very similar.

Only difference is Eddie got what Ced wanted; more carries. Eddie's 1st 5 years in the league he averaged 353 carries per year while Ced only averaged 298 per year in his 3 full seasons with the Bengals.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:09 PM
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that's why you're using him as an example.
I'm using him as an example because his YPC numbers and ball security issues are similar to Ced's(even in his prime); yet, nobody would say he was mediocre or worse.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:26 PM
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No doubt. In the last 20 years Ced has given us the best performance of any Bengal.
See, this is when it's clear that this thread is pointless. Once you say Ced gave the best performance of any Bengals in the last 20 years... I don't know if you mean single game, or that 4 year stretch, but either way, the statement is ridiculous.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:33 PM
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See, this is when it's clear that this thread is pointless. Once you say Ced gave the best performance of any Bengals in the last 20 years... I don't know if you mean single game, or that 4 year stretch, but either way, the statement is ridiculous.
Perhaps this will clear it up:

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
There is no doubt Corey was a much better Bengal and I personally think Rudi was as well; although, an argument could be made. I was talking post season, playing at an elite level, and giving us a chance to win. IMO the best since Dan Ross in 1982.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:50 PM
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That play alone would have made me a Ced fan. I think the league or Troy has had all links to that video removed. I cannot find it anywhere.

Promise it is true. It happened right in front of me. But would not be surprised that it was removed. It made him look silly and the sport look very vicious.

Troy stood up and waved to the sideline signaling that he needed out, was about 10 yards in front of the Bengals bench, the defensive end, on the about the 35 or 30 yard line. Took two steps forward and then stumbled 10 yards sideways and fell onto his knee and elbow on the ground. Two teammates had to help him up and to the bench.

Believe it was 08 and at PBS, because seems I remember my Father being alive and sitting next to me that day.

Never have searched for it but can recall it vividly. Had an unobstructed view from the front row about 15 to 20 yards directly in front of me.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:43 PM
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I'm using him as an example because his YPC numbers and ball security issues are similar to Ced's(even in his prime); yet, nobody would say he was mediocre or worse.
In his last 4 years, he most definitely was mediocre or worse.

In my opinion, worse. He was living off his name at that point.

But in his first 5 years, he was definitely better than Ced in a multitude of ways.

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
George's 1st 5 seasons in the league he still averaged under 4 YPC. During that thime he averaged 3.9 YPC, Ced averaged 3.8 YPC while here. Not sure what else I can do for you to show they were very similar.

Only difference is Eddie got what Ced wanted; more carries. Eddie's 1st 5 years in the league he averaged 353 carries per year while Ced only averaged 298 per year in his 3 full seasons with the Bengals.
George's first 5 seasons:

3.90 per carry (never averaged less than 3.72 per carry in a season)
Averaged 33 catches
Averaged 10 scores

Benson with the Bengals:

3.77 per carry (averaged 3.5 per carry twice)
Averaged 20 catches
Averaged 5.5 scores

Benson doesn't even stack up to George, and that's probably the best example you can find.

Got anyone else? How about any of these guys?

Fred Taylor
MJD
Emmitt Smith
Barry Sanders
Chris Johnson
AP
LT
Corey Dillon
Rudi Johnson
Curtis Martin
Arian Foster
Rashard Mendenhall
Jerome Bettis
Priest Holmes
Larry Johnson
Thomas Jones
Thurman Thomas
Clinton Portis
Tiki Barber
Brian Westbrook
Ahman Green
Marshall Faulk
Edgerrin James

I bet none of those guys have a career avg below 3.77. I honestly think it would be a challenge to find any RB in the last 20 years that was a feature back for his team and averaged 3.77 ypc or less for his career.
__________________
From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:19 PM
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bfine32 bfine32 is offline
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Default Re: Cedric Benson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
I honestly think it would be a challenge to find any RB in the last 20 years that was a feature back for his team and averaged 3.77 ypc or less for his career.
Eddie George?

Ced averaged 4.2 YPC in 2009. A feat Eddie never achieved in his entire career.

Last edited by bfine32; 01-26-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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