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  #51  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:02 PM
THEBURG THEBURG is offline
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bengals Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
The Bengals have used the 4-3 D because they didn't have a dominating nose tackle for a 3-4 alignment. With Adkins, I think Zim should look at the 3-4. JMO
Teams are coming back to the 4-, why change?
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  #52  
Old 01-25-2013, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

GENO!!!! We need to keep our Nuke, so pay the man!!
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  #53  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

In my mind, there's no reason why Geno should take a contract less than Ngata's when Geno was, is, and will be far better than Ngata.

It's wonderful having two transcendent talents in Green and Atkins, but I do not envy the front office. Atkins alone is going to be a pretty penny, but an extension for Green might slip into the ludicrous numbers. He might be looking at Fitzgerald/Megatron numbers. I could understand us being conservative in FA this year, but only if Atkins gets an extension.
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Give the man what ever he wants.
Can't let him leave.
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  #55  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Being a DE is not only about sacks. Reference any thread on these boards citing the Bengals should not have let Justin Smith leave. Geathers is Smith.

Wow...

Geathers is Geathers, nothing near the talent and productivity of Justin Smith. Comparing Geathers to a DE that averaged triple the tackles and double the sacks, all the while playing with zero additional d-line talent...


Wow!
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  #56  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

His weight x $ of gold x 1,000.
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  #57  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by Karp View Post
His weight x $ of gold x 1,000.
$7,987,200,000?

...worth it!
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  #58  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:52 AM
shaolinghost shaolinghost is offline
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
Wow...

Geathers is Geathers, nothing near the talent and productivity of Justin Smith. Comparing Geathers to a DE that averaged triple the tackles and double the sacks, all the while playing with zero additional d-line talent...


Wow!
Robert Geathers 2006-2012(7 seasons):6yr/$33.75million with $12.5million guaranteed
104 games played
87 games started
140 solo tackles
110 assisted tackles
253 total tackles
43.5% of his total tackles are assists
26.5 sacks(one season accounted from almost half of this total)
11 pdef
1 int
4 FFs

Justin Smith 2001-2007(7 seasons): 6yr/ $45.0million with $20.0million guaranteed
111 games played
107 games started
314 solo tackles
152 assisted tackles
466 total tackles
32.6% of his total tackles were assists
43.5 sacks
18 pdef
2 ints
7 FFs

Yup... looks the same to me.

Now imagine what those numbers would look like if he had MJ, Dunlap, and Atkins on the same line...

This team saved an average of $1.825 million per season. Not worth it at all when you consider the drop off in production from Smith to Geathers.
Now I'm not saying Geathers isn't good at his job, but he's no Justin Smith, not even on his best day.

Last edited by shaolinghost; 01-27-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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  #59  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:10 AM
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bengals Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

No one deserves Haynesworth money or Mario Williams. 6 years $80 million is what I expect to get done or so, but that's going to hurt us lol especially with Green, Johnson, and Dunlap to go although realistically our ends don't deserve Charles Johnson type deals so I'm praying that we get good deals done for them.

You know it would help teams out if they made a max contract with differing values at each position, that way teams don't go broke trying to keep their own franchise players and other teams can't go out and offer ridiculously high contracts to someone undeserving just because they have to have them. Would put more emphasis and pressure on organizations to focus on and do well in the draft.
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  #60  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

I agree with giving Geno big dollars.
DT's this good don't come around often and have turned into the most disruptive players on a defense.
Geno has produced at the same level as Suh to this point and looks to have a higher ceiling. All while collecting $500,000 a year compared to Suh's $13 million dollar a year deal.
Geno will and should get paid big.
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  #61  
Old 01-28-2013, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Just send him a blank check and tell him to put in whatever the hell he wants.

If the Bengals let him and Dunlap go, I'm done as a Bengal fan.
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  #62  
Old 01-28-2013, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Ok, I feel like throwing in something... I'd say there are two different questions: a) What is he worth in general? b) How big would the decline be if he'd leave?

- If his overall worth as a defender is much higher than the expected decline for his current team if he leaves (the Bengals still have Still and other young, promising DTs - and Sims), wouldn't it be (in this or in any similar case) more logical to sell him high - let's say, for a Palmer-like deal?

(- Please don't hang me...)
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  #63  
Old 01-28-2013, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by Old White Guy View Post
Give the man what ever he wants.
Can't let him leave.
We need GENO!!! I just hope MB will pony up for the big guy.
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  #64  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:09 PM
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bengals Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by hollodero View Post
Ok, I feel like throwing in something... I'd say there are two different questions: a) What is he worth in general? b) How big would the decline be if he'd leave?

- If his overall worth as a defender is much higher than the expected decline for his current team if he leaves (the Bengals still have Still and other young, promising DTs - and Sims), wouldn't it be (in this or in any similar case) more logical to sell him high - let's say, for a Palmer-like deal?

(- Please don't hang me...)
Young promising DTs or the best DT in the game? Seriously? This isn't the stock market. Where do people come up with this stuff?
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  #65  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by Karp View Post
His weight x $ of gold x 1,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
$7,987,200,000?

...worth it!
Better throw in a company car plus stock options. I want to be Geno's agent!
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  #66  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:54 PM
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bengals Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
The Bengals have used the 4-3 D because they didn't have a dominating nose tackle for a 3-4 alignment. With Adkins, I think Zim should look at the 3-4. JMO
Yep, because taking the best player at his position in the entire league...and switching his position sounds aweeeeesome.

Not even counting the fact that the Bengals strength is on the DL, and the Bengals weakness is LBers.. so instead of having 4 DL on the field and 3 LB (more of your strength, less of your weakness), lets switch that around so Dan Skuta can be the other starting ILB, and they can take the 2nd and 3rd round DTs they just drafted and cut both of them, because if you only need 1 NT, you already have Atkins and Peko.

Also, I was really tired of the Bengals having the 6th overall defense, 8th scoring defense, and 3rd most sacks. Really time to shake things up, because Zim doesn't know how to make a 4-3 defense successful at all.

The defense is really what's holding back this team. If only they could use the 3-4 to elevate to the offense's level of excellence. ...............
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  #67  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by hollodero View Post
Ok, I feel like throwing in something... I'd say there are two different questions: a) What is he worth in general? b) How big would the decline be if he'd leave?

- If his overall worth as a defender is much higher than the expected decline for his current team if he leaves (the Bengals still have Still and other young, promising DTs - and Sims), wouldn't it be (in this or in any similar case) more logical to sell him high - let's say, for a Palmer-like deal?

(- Please don't hang me...)
Im not gonna overeact with a crazy response because I saw you said you were just throwing it out. So it may not be what you think we should do. But honestly if anyone is even thinking of this they dont care about watching good football, period. Geno embodies everything a great ballplayer should be. There is NO return that would give us equal return on Geno. PERIOD. I wouldnt trade Geno for 10 1st round picks. You draft players with the HOPE that they pull a Geno and become great. When you finally hit on a pick you lock em up......this isnt the NBA, you dont "sell players high". Hopefully the CBA discourages GMs to not give crazy contracts like the NBA.
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  #68  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
Yep, because taking the best player at his position in the entire league...and switching his position sounds aweeeeesome.

Not even counting the fact that the Bengals strength is on the DL, and the Bengals weakness is LBers.. so instead of having 4 DL on the field and 3 LB (more of your strength, less of your weakness), lets switch that around so Dan Skuta can be the other starting ILB, and they can take the 2nd and 3rd round DTs they just drafted and cut both of them, because if you only need 1 NT, you already have Atkins and Peko.

Also, I was really tired of the Bengals having the 6th overall defense, 8th scoring defense, and 3rd most sacks. Really time to shake things up, because Zim doesn't know how to make a 4-3 defense successful at all.

The defense is really what's holding back this team. If only they could use the 3-4 to elevate to the offense's level of excellence. ...............
Not to mention that a NT in a 3-4 needs to be HUGE. Atkins is a great rusher, and good against the run in a 4-3. But switch him to a 3-4 NT and he would get pushed back every play because he isn't the biggest DL in the world.
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  #69  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by Anderson_fan1988 View Post
Not to mention that a NT in a 3-4 needs to be HUGE. Atkins is a great rusher, and good against the run in a 4-3. But switch him to a 3-4 NT and he would get pushed back every play because he isn't the biggest DL in the world.
He'd be a DE in a 3-4. It would hurt his numbers but he'd take up 2 blockers.
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  #70  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

The primary reason the Bengals make the playoffs now is they have 2 elite players in Atkins and Green that make their teammates better. Sure we have other talent but remove either one of those guys and the team declines a lot. That goes out to the people who think Still can replace Atkins. That would be like replacing Green with Jones.
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  #71  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Originally Posted by Housh View Post
Im not gonna overeact with a crazy response because I saw you said you were just throwing it out.
And I appreciate it.
(And no, I "wouldn't do it". I just got bored of the 45th comment on how irreplaceable he is and that he should get whatever he wants. So I threw in some slight controversy.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Housh View Post
There is NO return that would give us equal return on Geno. PERIOD. I wouldnt trade Geno for 10 1st round picks. You draft players with the HOPE that they pull a Geno and become great. When you finally hit on a pick you lock em up......this isnt the NBA, you dont "sell players high". Hopefully the CBA discourages GMs to not give crazy contracts like the NBA.
OK, I see where you're getting at. But here's a thought. What would you rather have?

a) DT: Atkins, Peko, Sims, Still, Thompson

or

b) DT: Peko, Sims, Still, Thompson
+ 10 1st round picks
--
OK, get angry now, but in that highly hypothetical case I'd seriously go with option b).
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  #72  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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9/20/2011: Signed a five-year, $61 million contract. The deal contains $37.1 million guaranteed, including a $25 million signing bonus. 2012: $2.9 million (+ $10 million "signing" bonus), 2013: $4 million, 2014-15: $8.5 million, 2016: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3599/haloti-ngata
Question for you.

Was Ngata signed early as we are suggesting Bengals due with Geno? Geno is under contract for a low amount in 2013, so if we resigned him, he would get a huge raise in 2013 I would think which may factor in less money in year 2-4 or 5. Was Ngata signed a year early as well?
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  #73  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

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Im not gonna overeact with a crazy response because I saw you said you were just throwing it out. So it may not be what you think we should do. But honestly if anyone is even thinking of this they dont care about watching good football, period. Geno embodies everything a great ballplayer should be. There is NO return that would give us equal return on Geno. PERIOD. I wouldnt trade Geno for 10 1st round picks. You draft players with the HOPE that they pull a Geno and become great. When you finally hit on a pick you lock em up......this isnt the NBA, you dont "sell players high". Hopefully the CBA discourages GMs to not give crazy contracts like the NBA.
All true except there may be times when you sell high. Say if a player is old and doesn't have many years left I could see it. Obviously that doesn't apply to Geno though since he's young.

You draft to get players like this and if you trade them for virtually anything at all then you're basically spinning your wheels because you just have to hope at least one of the players you get will be that good....and the odds are totally stacked against you.
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  #74  
Old 01-28-2013, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Mr. Brown,

Open your wallet and pay Geno Atkins. Make him the richest defensive lineman in the league. Do whatever it takes to keep him a Bengal for his entire career because he is a very talented man. One day, up in heaven, God decided to make a defensive lineman and He came up with Geno. When Geno was born, he shot out of his mother in a three point stance, did a spin move around the surgical nurse, sacked the doctor, then hugged his parents. Geno only cried once as a baby because milk wasn't filling enough. This was the beginning of the Atkins protein shake you can still buy today.
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  #75  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:31 AM
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Default Re: Geno Atkins' Worth?

Pay Geno want he wants..If he keeps it up and plays like he's playing for the rest of his career he could be a hall of famer along with Aj Green.
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