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  #26  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

If the #21 pick comes around and the best value is a WR, wouldn't bother me a bit. I don't care what order the holes are filled in, just that they're filled. With several needs, each round should provide value where there's need. Sign quality FA's, keep who needs to be kept and keep adding quality in the draft.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:03 PM
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bengals Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
There were pre-draft reports that said MJ had motor problems and that Geno was to small to be a dominant every down DT.

I will give you he played many snaps from the slot his senior season but pretty sure that was not the case in others seasons.

So even if TJ's best season who was on the field with CJ when they were in fwo WR sets?
Ok...I did not say that TJ played only in the slot...his BEST numbers came outta the slot...Yes, he did play across from CJ, but in many of the 2 WR sets, Henry lined up across from CJ...look at the stats...in 07 & 08, TJs best season, 112 & 92 recs respectively, his yds per catch were 10.2 & 9.8, down from his previous per catch averages...again indicative of playing in the slot, where you run drags and quick posts for short gains!

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  #28  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

i agree we have to dev sanu, etc. but another higher pick to add in the mix would not be a bad idea.

However.... only if a stud fell to us.... thats how i would handle it.
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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i agree we have to dev sanu, etc. but another higher pick to add in the mix would not be a bad idea.

However.... only if a stud fell to us.... thats how i would handle it.
Me too. If you do end up in that situation, it's not like it would be a wasted pick.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by StLucieBengal View Post
i agree we have to dev sanu, etc. but another higher pick to add in the mix would not be a bad idea.

However.... only if a stud fell to us.... thats how i would handle it.
except there are no AJ Greens or Julio Jones in this draft, any WR taken in this draft will already be light years behind Sanu and Jones. It usually takes a WR between 2-3 years to figure it out, there are exceptions such as AJ and megatron and marques colston, but 2-3 years is the general rule. a high round wr is a waste of a pick especially since we have holes in the back 7 on defense, on our line, and at RB.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

Like I'm sure others have said many times already, I think taking a WR in this draft at all, unless their far and away BPA, would be a wasted pick.

We already have so much young talent that needs some time to develop. If anything, I'd like to sign a good FA WR like Hartline, Jennings, Welker, or Bowe. That way they come in with good experience and we know they'll perform well.
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Like I'm sure others have said many times already, I think taking a WR in this draft at all, unless their far and away BPA, would be a wasted pick.

We already have so much young talent that needs some time to develop. If anything, I'd like to sign a good FA WR like Hartline, Jennings, Welker, or Bowe. That way they come in with good experience and we know they'll perform well.
Adding an outstanding player to your team is never a waste. We're not talking about a Matt Millen situation here. You can get LB's, S's, etc. with the rest of the picks if you use the first one on a WR.

And so much young talent? Bit of an overstatement, if you ask me. Sanu looks like a keeper. Jones, the jury is still out. After them, what?

I like the idea of signing a FA but for how long?
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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From what I hear, Jones has problems against bigger Dlinemen. I think Frederick might be a better pick. Jones might be able to get stronger, but the NFL features HUGE guys in the middle of the DLine. Hampton and Ngata are just two examples. Frederick matches up better at this point.
I never heard that, but, if that is the case, then I agree that Frederick might be the better pick because our division has some huge nose tackles.

My only knock on Frederick is everything I'm reading says that he'll probably play guard in the NFL.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
Like I'm sure others have said many times already, I think taking a WR in this draft at all, unless their far and away BPA, would be a wasted pick.

We already have so much young talent that needs some time to develop. If anything, I'd like to sign a good FA WR like Hartline, Jennings, Welker, or Bowe. That way they come in with good experience and we know they'll perform well.
So much young talent? In all fairness, we have a bunch of mid-round and late picks that are "developing"

It's not like we have a bunch of stallions at WR and we are burning our 3rd straight #1 pick on one.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Adding an outstanding player to your team is never a waste. We're not talking about a Matt Millen situation here. You can get LB's, S's, etc. with the rest of the picks if you use the first one on a WR.

And so much young talent? Bit of an overstatement, if you ask me. Sanu looks like a keeper. Jones, the jury is still out. After them, what?

I like the idea of signing a FA but for how long?
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So much young talent? In all fairness, we have a bunch of mid-round and late picks that are "developing"

It's not like we have a bunch of stallions at WR and we are burning our 3rd straight #1 pick on one.
My point was we're already too young at WR, and guys like AJ don't come around that often. Most rookie WRs take a couple seasons to develop and that's if they're good.

Get a solid veteran. Continue to develop Sanu and Jones, then in a year or two, re-assess the situation and draft accordingly.

WTS, I can definitely see the logic in wanting to take a top talent in the draft, and wouldn't be upset if we drafted a WR with the 21st pick, but I would much prefer a likely "sure thing" with a veteran over a "maybe" with a rookie.
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  #36  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

I definitely agree with the original poster. We need a #2.

I realize that Sanu and Jones both showed promise, but waiting for promise to turn in productions is what led us to a season with Chris Perry as our starting RB, and Dan Coats as a starting TE. We need to get our offense on the move and be aggressive. We can't sit around and wait.

With that said, I realize that AJ Greens and Julio Jones' spoil people. And I don't think anyone expects us to draft a WR in the top 10. But at 21, if Cordarelle Patterson is there he is the playmaker we need. He can do something after the catch, and do something with the ball in his hands. He's like Sanu and Jones combined into one. I think he'd really open it up.

When I look at it in terms of value. Would a WR like Patterson, or a LB like Ogletree take this team further along? My vote would be WR.
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Final Mock 2012

1. Mark Barron - S
1. Courtney Upshaw - DE/OLB
2. Amini Silatolu - OG
3. Mohammed Sanu - WR
4. Ryan Steed - CB
5. Marcus Forston - DT
5. Tom Compton - OT
5. Ernest Owusu - DE
6. Michael Smith - RB
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  #37  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:15 PM
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bengals Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by mrcrockj View Post
I definitely agree with the original poster. We need a #2.

I realize that Sanu and Jones both showed promise, but waiting for promise to turn in productions is what led us to a season with Chris Perry as our starting RB, and Dan Coats as a starting TE. We need to get our offense on the move and be aggressive. We can't sit around and wait.

With that said, I realize that AJ Greens and Julio Jones' spoil people. And I don't think anyone expects us to draft a WR in the top 10. But at 21, if Cordarelle Patterson is there he is the playmaker we need. He can do something after the catch, and do something with the ball in his hands. He's like Sanu and Jones combined into one. I think he'd really open it up.

When I look at it in terms of value. Would a WR like Patterson, or a LB like Ogletree take this team further along? My vote would be WR.

well i would love to have C.patterson but were not waiting for sanu and jones to produce we are waiting for next season to start. like u said they both showed promise...as rookies, and both showed it the minute they stepped on the field...neither one took time to get comfortable to the game. Jones balled out from the get go whether it be rookie camps pre season or regular season. jones played well and showed good promise as a rookie. Sanu when they finally pplayed him killed it. making tough catches in traffic dragging defenders and get as much as he could after he catch. Including 1 handed td catches...4 on the year i beleive. Im not sure what exactly u mean by we are waiting for them. Both came in and produced very well as rookies and now we are only waiting for next season for them to produce even more.
Patterson would be sweet and i cant say i would be ****** if we grabbed him but with our depth and immediate needs i def want us to go a Different route. No go on a WR early. wouldnt mind a guy like Marquiss Wilson from washington state in the later rounds hes a top talent.
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Too many people got spoiled by AJ. In general WRs do not make impacts as rookies. AJ and Calvin are the exceptions not the rule. So you draft another WR early and are right where you were with Sanu and Jones.

Speaking of Sanu and Jones .....I am certainly glad many on these boards are not in charge of personnel decisions or we would do nothing but rotate rookies. Amazing how some already have the careers of Sanu and Jones already mapped out and defined. Someone should probably contact them and the team and let them know what these guys are nothing more than backups and never will be more so they can stop working so hard to improve.
Your right lets just set back and hope that a 3rd and 5th round pick develop into starters and pass on top talent, great idea. I still think Sanu will be a good WR I just think he is more suited inside and having a 3rd WR Andy can depend does nothing but help this team.

Everyone isn't spoiled because of AJ there are plenty of WR's drafted every year that contribute, Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, TY Hilton, Chris Givens were all good WR's this year, the draft is a gamble sure but its a gamble at every position, but just wishing and hoping for a 5th round pick that didn't show a ton this year is gonna be our #2 WR next year is just as big of a gamble.

Give me a veteran Jennings or maybe Hartline over the draft but if we dont get a good WR in FA then yea I think its a top 3 round pick for sure.
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  #39  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:39 PM
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bengals Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by mrcrockj View Post
I definitely agree with the original poster. We need a #2.

I realize that Sanu and Jones both showed promise, but waiting for promise to turn in productions is what led us to a season with Chris Perry as our starting RB, and Dan Coats as a starting TE. We need to get our offense on the move and be aggressive. We can't sit around and wait.

With that said, I realize that AJ Greens and Julio Jones' spoil people. And I don't think anyone expects us to draft a WR in the top 10. But at 21, if Cordarelle Patterson is there he is the playmaker we need. He can do something after the catch, and do something with the ball in his hands. He's like Sanu and Jones combined into one. I think he'd really open it up.

When I look at it in terms of value. Would a WR like Patterson, or a LB like Ogletree take this team further along? My vote would be WR.
We do need to get the offense rolling. However just like you throw out the history of waiting around with Perry and Coates history as well shows that in general rookie WRs are not the way to get an offense rolling. Sorry but I do not see anyone who is close to an AJ or a Calvin in this draft.

So if anyone thinks that a right now #2 is the way to fix the offense then they should be looking at the FA market. In the draft the most immediate fix this offense can get is in the ground game.

If Ansah is sitting there at 21 and this team selects a WR then it would be a huge mistake!
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

I have a couple things for this thread.

The first thing is that the notion of rookie receivers not "getting it" until a few years later doesn't really hold water. Just taking picks from right around the same position we are drafting this year (21)...

Last year the Bengals #2 receivers accounted for roughly 65 catches, 776 yards, and 7 touchdowns.

Rookie Year
2006 - 25th pick - Santonio Holmes - 4 starts, 49 catches, 824 yards, 2 touchdowns.
2007 - 23rd pick - Dwayne Bowe - 15 starts, 70 catches, 995 yards, 5 touchdowns.
2008 - No Wide Receivers taken in first round.
2009 - 22nd pick - Percy Harvin - 8 starts, 60 catches, 790 yards, 6 touchdowns.
2009 - 29th pick - Hakeem Nicks - 6 starts, 47 catches, 790 yards, 6 touchdowns.
2009 - 30th pick - Kenny Britt - 6 starts, 42 catches, 701 yards, 3 touchdowns.
2010 - 24th pick - Dez Bryant - 2 starts, 45 catches, 561 yards, 6 touchdowns.
2011 - Jones and Green both had excellent rookie seasons. Jon Baldwin not so much.
2012 - 20th pick - Kendall Wright - 5 starts, 64 catches, 626 yards, 4 touchdowns.

Late first round rookie receivers have fared quite well recently. Don't let perceived history dictate draft philosophy.

The second thing relates to people going against the notion of taking a wide receiver because we already have players who need to "develop". I have a few questions for those that feel that way. Since when did having talented players on a roster at the same position prevent a player from actually developing? How would Patterson, Hunter, Allen, or whomever was drafted prevent Sanu and Jones from reaching their potential?
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  #41  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:48 PM
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bengals Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by Broken1 View Post
I have a couple things for this thread.

The first thing is that the notion of rookie receivers not "getting it" until a few years later doesn't really hold water. Just taking picks from right around the same position we are drafting this year (21)...

Last year the Bengals #2 receivers accounted for roughly 65 catches, 776 yards, and 7 touchdowns.

Rookie Year
2006 - 25th pick - Santonio Holmes - 4 starts, 49 catches, 824 yards, 2 touchdowns.
2007 - 23rd pick - Dwayne Bowe - 15 starts, 70 catches, 995 yards, 5 touchdowns.
2008 - No Wide Receivers taken in first round.
2009 - 22nd pick - Percy Harvin - 8 starts, 60 catches, 790 yards, 6 touchdowns.
2009 - 29th pick - Hakeem Nicks - 6 starts, 47 catches, 790 yards, 6 touchdowns.
2009 - 30th pick - Kenny Britt - 6 starts, 42 catches, 701 yards, 3 touchdowns.
2010 - 24th pick - Dez Bryant - 2 starts, 45 catches, 561 yards, 6 touchdowns.
2011 - Jones and Green both had excellent rookie seasons. Jon Baldwin not so much.
2012 - 20th pick - Kendall Wright - 5 starts, 64 catches, 626 yards, 4 touchdowns.

Late first round rookie receivers have fared quite well recently. Don't let perceived history dictate draft philosophy.

The second thing relates to people going against the notion of taking a wide receiver because we already have players who need to "develop". I have a few questions for those that feel that way. Since when did having talented players on a roster at the same position prevent a player from actually developing? How would Patterson, Hunter, Allen, or whomever was drafted prevent Sanu and Jones from reaching their potential?
In those same years how many other WRs were selected in the first round and why did they not make your list?
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  #42  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

I still find linebacker a more pressing need than WR. With WR, we talk about Sanu and Jones, being young players developing.

At LB, we complain about Rey, Howard is coming off an injury and is getting older, Lawson is a FA (and should not be retained), Moch needs to get on the field but is always hurt, and Lamur has just come in.

So LB is honestly the weakest position. Ogletree would be an immediate upgrade. As would Khaseem Greene. I understand people love offense, but you realize that defense still does win championships?

Patriots had an awesome offense, but Ravens DEFENSE won that game, holding them to 13 points. 49ers were down, but their DEFENSE was clutch and kept them very much in the game. Why do you think the Steelers are always a contender? Their defense. Then they fill in pieces on offense. The Bengals are doing that, and doing it well. They have young talent, and are developing as a team.
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  #43  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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In those same years how many other WRs were selected in the first round and why did they not make your list?
I did not include all first round wide receivers because I believe that the position in which we draft is very prevalent to the discussion.

Of all of those years the only two receivers kept off of the list who were drafted in a similar position to where the Bengals are drafting were Jon Baldwin and Demaryius Thomas. Baldwin was poor as a rookie and that trend has continued. Thomas was left off of the list because his playing time as a rookie did not really warrant his numbers being included. He only dressed for 10 games and was the #4 receiver on that team.

Even if you took those into account though you still have 7 very solid rookie receivers out of a 9 person sample size.

Edit*
Upon second review of this that doesn't actually bear out as truth. If we were to include Kenny Britt at 30th, then we should also add Jenkins at 30th in 2012. Another player who could not see the field as a rookie. Also, Robert Meachem was taken with the 27th pick in 2007 and did not play as a rookie due to a kneee injury. So with that the number would be 7 out of 11, or 63 percent, with at least one solid rookie being drafted in the later part of the first round every year.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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In those same years how many other WRs were selected in the first round and why did they not make your list?
How many DE's were selected in those years that didnt work out? OT? RB? QB? CB? S?

Point is every pick at every position is a risk and if WR is the BPA then it should be the pick, not keeping average players around hoping for best because your afraid a WR wont work out.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:06 PM
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bengals Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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How many DE's were selected in those years that didnt work out? OT? RB? QB? CB? S?

Point is every pick at every position is a risk and if WR is the BPA then it should be the pick, not keeping average players around hoping for best because your afraid a WR wont work out.
Not sure where you think you saw me disagree with this. I stated if Ansah is there at 21 he should be our pick and I like the dlinemen we have. I state this because if he is there at 21 he is best player availabe and there is not a WR projecting in that area that I think would be a better selection.

So say what you mean to say. If you do not like Ansah at 21 then say so but do not try to make something out of a statement that is not there.

I also think this offense would improve more by improving the run game then they would by adding yet another young WR.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:14 PM
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except there are no AJ Greens or Julio Jones in this draft, any WR taken in this draft will already be light years behind Sanu and Jones..

We also are not picking 4th or 5th. Which in that case I would not touch a WR then. At 21 or the raider pick though we could get a nice player. One who could make an immediate impact.

I honestly do not know the WR depth in the draft. Nor do I plan to do some vast research on it either. But I do know we will have a shot at one stud type.

I think Sanu has a lot of promise and will do well. Jones I am not so sure of., He screams Andre Caldwell imo
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:42 PM
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I never heard that, but, if that is the case, then I agree that Frederick might be the better pick because our division has some huge nose tackles.

My only knock on Frederick is everything I'm reading says that he'll probably play guard in the NFL.
I heard them talking about it in the BCS championship game. Otherwise I haven't seen anything like that either. Jut stuff like this

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Head coach Nick Saban has said on many occasions that Jones is one of the top players he's ever been around and has compared the 2011 Outland Trophy (nation's top interior lineman) to Hall of Famer Bruce Matthews. Considering his versatility and dependability (not to mention his coach's impressive recommendation), Jones quietly ranks among the safest prospects in the draft.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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We also are not picking 4th or 5th. Which in that case I would not touch a WR then. At 21 or the raider pick though we could get a nice player. One who could make an immediate impact.

I honestly do not know the WR depth in the draft. Nor do I plan to do some vast research on it either. But I do know we will have a shot at one stud type.

I think Sanu has a lot of promise and will do well. Jones I am not so sure of., He screams Andre Caldwell imo
imo number 2 reciever is like the the 5th thing wrong with this team, sure talent is always good to have but i think we need a couple linebackers and a safety and a rb and some depth on the o line maybe even a starter depending on the smith situation, at wr we have a few young guys who can fill in and maybe even exceed expectations(of this board). and to all the guys wondering about not developing our wr's if we get another guy. development comes from reps in practice and games adding another reciever takes away those reps
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:31 PM
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and to all the guys wondering about not developing our wr's if we get another guy. development comes from reps in practice and games adding another reciever takes away those reps
So do we not take a safety because we have young players in Mays, Sands, Iloka, and Miles? Do we not take a corner because we drafted Kirkpatrick and Prater last year?
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:12 PM
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bengals Re: Here Is Why Bengals Need A WR With A Top Pick

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Originally Posted by Broken1 View Post
So do we not take a safety because we have young players in Mays, Sands, Iloka, and Miles? Do we not take a corner because we drafted Kirkpatrick and Prater last year?
Do you honestly believe that Mays, Sands, or Miles have shown remotely close to the potential at their position that Sanu and Jonez haves shown at theirs? I mean honestly.
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