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Old 01-28-2013, 05:15 AM
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Default Cap money...what bengals have to spend

42 million is the number I came up with. Based on the 55 million in cap space we're projected to have and the 89% of 121 million salary floor, it looks like we can expect the Bengals to spend roughly 42 million on extensions, FAs, rookies.

From what I can gather the Bengals are probably looking at their first rounder counting about 1.5 million against the cap. Just under 500k in salary plus a signing bonus of probably about 4 to 5 million pro-rated for cap purposes. I base that on Chandler Jones signing bonus of 4 million and change last year after being picked 21st overall.

I figure about five more rookies will probably make the team all getting the 2013 minimum of 480k and you've got another 2.5 million against the cap right there. Their signing bonuses will all be considerably less than the first rounder and also pro-rated towards the 108 million (89% of the 121 mil cap) salary floor. I can't see the rest of the rookie bonuses amounting to more than 2 million against the cap, that's probably more than what it will actually be but just for the sake of discussion we'll go with that.

So that's a high ball estimate of roughly 6 million to rookies counting against the cap. So that would leave at least 36 million that the Bengals will HAVE to spend on extensions and FAs. (well, they almost HAVE to, more on that in a minute)

So how do we spend it?.....It seems like AJ, Geno, DreSmith and MJ are all due for extensions, whether their deals are up or not, I think these guys could all well be signing new deals. Even if that happens, that is still gonna leave what, probably a good 20 million-ish that the Bengals will have to spend to hit salary floor.....

Now they could defer some of it cuz they only have to spend the 89 percent over a four year period but since they have to be at that number sooner or later, I'm assuming they'll stay pretty much right on it cuz they'll just have to spend more later if they don't and since the cap will continue to go up, it will cost more to wait to get to that 89 percent floor later. Basically, the team will save itself the most money by staying right at the floor annually. I'd bet a large sum that is exactly what they'll do.

So it looks to me like we'll be 13 million under the 121 million cap. Which is only 2 million less than what they were under the cap on September 4th of 2012. That was good for 5th most space in the league at the time.

So it looks to me like we're really not looking at all that big of difference with the floor coming into play.

I know I'm ballparking some stuff so feel free to hop in and give some feedback on what you guys think about all this.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

As long as those mentioned are extended ? Will be a happy Bengals fan myself.

The young starters should improve still and there would be enough left to sign a nice FA or two if they choose.

Which coupled with early 2013 draft picks and early injured ones from this years draft returning.
Could put us over the top imo.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

Yea, the FO needs to work on keeping the core of this young and up-coming talent here - AJ, Geno, MJ, Dre. Use whatever money is left over for Free Agent signings, if needed. Lets see how Dalton does this year and maybe we can throw some extra money his way as well.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:12 AM
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bengals Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

Quote:
Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
42 million is the number I came up with. Based on the 55 million in cap space we're projected to have and the 89% of 121 million salary floor, it looks like we can expect the Bengals to spend roughly 42 million on extensions, FAs, rookies.

From what I can gather the Bengals are probably looking at their first rounder counting about 1.5 million against the cap. Just under 500k in salary plus a signing bonus of probably about 4 to 5 million pro-rated for cap purposes. I base that on Chandler Jones signing bonus of 4 million and change last year after being picked 21st overall.

I figure about five more rookies will probably make the team all getting the 2013 minimum of 480k and you've got another 2.5 million against the cap right there. Their signing bonuses will all be considerably less than the first rounder and also pro-rated towards the 108 million (89% of the 121 mil cap) salary floor. I can't see the rest of the rookie bonuses amounting to more than 2 million against the cap, that's probably more than what it will actually be but just for the sake of discussion we'll go with that.

So that's a high ball estimate of roughly 6 million to rookies counting against the cap. So that would leave at least 36 million that the Bengals will HAVE to spend on extensions and FAs. (well, they almost HAVE to, more on that in a minute)

So how do we spend it?
.....It seems like AJ, Geno, DreSmith and MJ are all due for extensions, whether their deals are up or not, I think these guys could all well be signing new deals. Even if that happens, that is still gonna leave what, probably a good 20 million-ish that the Bengals will have to spend to hit salary floor.....

Now they could defer some of it cuz they only have to spend the 89 percent over a four year period but since they have to be at that number sooner or later, I'm assuming they'll stay pretty much right on it cuz they'll just have to spend more later if they don't and since the cap will continue to go up, it will cost more to wait to get to that 89 percent floor later. Basically, the team will save itself the most money by staying right at the floor annually. I'd bet a large sum that is exactly what they'll do.

So it looks to me like we'll be 13 million under the 121 million cap. Which is only 2 million less than what they were under the cap on September 4th of 2012. That was good for 5th most space in the league at the time.

So it looks to me like we're really not looking at all that big of difference with the floor coming into play.

I know I'm ballparking some stuff so feel free to hop in and give some feedback on what you guys think about all this.

This won't even be an issue this offseason.
Per the new CBA rules players on their rookie contracts (4 years) can not begin extension negotiations
until they enter the final year of their contract. AJ will get his extension at the conclusion of next season.
This leaves either more space for us this year, or the FO may very well decide to save more back this year than the 89%
in order to unload more next season on Green and Dalton's extensions.
I don't think we see the huge splash of cash many are expecting during the offseason for this reason.

Last edited by FRAv; 01-28-2013 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by FRAv View Post
This won't even be an issue this offseason.
Per the new CBA rules players on their rookie contracts (4 years) can not begin extension negotiations
until they enter the final year of their contract. AJ will get his extension at the conclusion of next season.
This leaves either more space for us this year, or the FO may very well decide to save more back this year than the 89%
in order to unload more next season on Green and Dalton's extensions.
I don't think we see the huge splash of cash many are expecting during the offseason for this reason.
Yep can't get Green locked up yet. It's time to get Geno locked up though....like yesterday. Honestly I think it'll be impossible for me to consider this offseason a success unless they get Geno paid. That has to be priority #1.

I wouldn't mind if they front loaded it too, even if that means we do alot less with other signings. It would help down the road.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

Mike Brown already refused to extend Andre Smith. I personally think that's a smart move.

Smith has had motivational and maturity issues since before we even drafted him. They continue even today (gun at the airport).

He's had one decent season in the 4 he's been here. He's certainly not had a career worthy of a high 1st round pick, even with injury taken into account.

So, the Bengals have as much cap money as any other team in the league at last count (which I admit I haven't looked at in weeks).

So, I'm guessing we're looking for another LB high in the draft, with a RB at least with one of our 2 2nd round picks. Need a OT somewhere after that to replace Smith (or comb the free agency lists since we can afford a good one).
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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bengals Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by Armoredcar View Post
Yep can't get Green locked up yet. It's time to get Geno locked up though....like yesterday. Honestly I think it'll be impossible for me to consider this offseason a success unless they get Geno paid. That has to be priority #1.

I wouldn't mind if they front loaded it too, even if that means we do alot less with other signings. It would help down the road.
Agreed. the good news is that reports are saying the Bengals are already in discussions for the extension.
I see them offering a fair contract and Geno wanting to stay on the team that has gotten him the stats he has.
Hopefully this will be done quickly and we don't have to spend all season worrying about this one.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

Cutting Wharton and Allen, two guys who've done virtually nothing for this franchise, would give us an additional $4.25million in cap space. Enough to sign a quality veteran at a weak spot.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:51 PM
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bengals Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
Cutting Wharton and Allen, two guys who've done virtually nothing for this franchise, would give us an additional $4.25million in cap space. Enough to sign a quality veteran at a weak spot.
Every team loves to stock up on linemen.
For that reason, I could see Wharton being given a chance
to battle for a spot in camp with Boling and see how that goes.
Maybe he gets cut down the line, maybe he ends up shocking.

Allen is a ghost.
And when a ghost is getting paid
more than probably half the team, that's a little bit upsetting.
Hopefully we don't see him on the roster at any point next season.

Cincinnati has plenty of depth at corner.
I'm assuming Jones and Newman are re-signed and
Hall, Prater, Ghee, and Kirkpatrick return next year.
Draft a late corner and we're set.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Mike Brown already refused to extend Andre Smith. I personally think that's a smart move.

Smith has had motivational and maturity issues since before we even drafted him. They continue even today (gun at the airport).

He's had one decent season in the 4 he's been here. He's certainly not had a career worthy of a high 1st round pick, even with injury taken into account.

So, the Bengals have as much cap money as any other team in the league at last count (which I admit I haven't looked at in weeks).

So, I'm guessing we're looking for another LB high in the draft, with a RB at least with one of our 2 2nd round picks. Need a OT somewhere after that to replace Smith (or comb the free agency lists since we can afford a good one).
I agree about Smith. Just wait though, someone will come in here proclaiming him the best OT in the league. There are a couple of quality OTs hitting FA. Just look for the smelly titled thread to see what I mean.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
42 million is the number I came up with. Based on the 55 million in cap space we're projected to have and the 89% of 121 million salary floor, it looks like we can expect the Bengals to spend roughly 42 million on extensions, FAs, rookies.

From what I can gather the Bengals are probably looking at their first rounder counting about 1.5 million against the cap. Just under 500k in salary plus a signing bonus of probably about 4 to 5 million pro-rated for cap purposes. I base that on Chandler Jones signing bonus of 4 million and change last year after being picked 21st overall.

I figure about five more rookies will probably make the team all getting the 2013 minimum of 480k and you've got another 2.5 million against the cap right there. Their signing bonuses will all be considerably less than the first rounder and also pro-rated towards the 108 million (89% of the 121 mil cap) salary floor. I can't see the rest of the rookie bonuses amounting to more than 2 million against the cap, that's probably more than what it will actually be but just for the sake of discussion we'll go with that.

So that's a high ball estimate of roughly 6 million to rookies counting against the cap. So that would leave at least 36 million that the Bengals will HAVE to spend on extensions and FAs. (well, they almost HAVE to, more on that in a minute)

So how do we spend it?.....It seems like AJ, Geno, DreSmith and MJ are all due for extensions, whether their deals are up or not, I think these guys could all well be signing new deals. Even if that happens, that is still gonna leave what, probably a good 20 million-ish that the Bengals will have to spend to hit salary floor.....

Now they could defer some of it cuz they only have to spend the 89 percent over a four year period but since they have to be at that number sooner or later, I'm assuming they'll stay pretty much right on it cuz they'll just have to spend more later if they don't and since the cap will continue to go up, it will cost more to wait to get to that 89 percent floor later. Basically, the team will save itself the most money by staying right at the floor annually. I'd bet a large sum that is exactly what they'll do.

So it looks to me like we'll be 13 million under the 121 million cap. Which is only 2 million less than what they were under the cap on September 4th of 2012. That was good for 5th most space in the league at the time.

So it looks to me like we're really not looking at all that big of difference with the floor coming into play.

I know I'm ballparking some stuff so feel free to hop in and give some feedback on what you guys think about all this.
Nice breakdown.

I expect to see the extensions take place and us to be pretty quiet and shop for bargains in FA with busts, under performers, and guys that have already played their best ball.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

Quote:
Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
42 million is the number I came up with. Based on the 55 million in cap space we're projected to have and the 89% of 121 million salary floor, it looks like we can expect the Bengals to spend roughly 42 million on extensions, FAs, rookies.

From what I can gather the Bengals are probably looking at their first rounder counting about 1.5 million against the cap. Just under 500k in salary plus a signing bonus of probably about 4 to 5 million pro-rated for cap purposes. I base that on Chandler Jones signing bonus of 4 million and change last year after being picked 21st overall.

I figure about five more rookies will probably make the team all getting the 2013 minimum of 480k and you've got another 2.5 million against the cap right there. Their signing bonuses will all be considerably less than the first rounder and also pro-rated towards the 108 million (89% of the 121 mil cap) salary floor. I can't see the rest of the rookie bonuses amounting to more than 2 million against the cap, that's probably more than what it will actually be but just for the sake of discussion we'll go with that.

So that's a high ball estimate of roughly 6 million to rookies counting against the cap. So that would leave at least 36 million that the Bengals will HAVE to spend on extensions and FAs. (well, they almost HAVE to, more on that in a minute)

So how do we spend it?.....It seems like AJ, Geno, DreSmith and MJ are all due for extensions, whether their deals are up or not, I think these guys could all well be signing new deals. Even if that happens, that is still gonna leave what, probably a good 20 million-ish that the Bengals will have to spend to hit salary floor.....

Now they could defer some of it cuz they only have to spend the 89 percent over a four year period but since they have to be at that number sooner or later, I'm assuming they'll stay pretty much right on it cuz they'll just have to spend more later if they don't and since the cap will continue to go up, it will cost more to wait to get to that 89 percent floor later. Basically, the team will save itself the most money by staying right at the floor annually. I'd bet a large sum that is exactly what they'll do.

So it looks to me like we'll be 13 million under the 121 million cap. Which is only 2 million less than what they were under the cap on September 4th of 2012. That was good for 5th most space in the league at the time.

So it looks to me like we're really not looking at all that big of difference with the floor coming into play.

I know I'm ballparking some stuff so feel free to hop in and give some feedback on what you guys think about all this.
Seems your math is correct on the 16 million to extend (a. Smith, MJ and if we decide to extend Geno early) contracts even though AJ can't be extended until after next year.

I see it as:

Geno = 9 million (would be more, but since he is getting a huge raise in 2013, I think he factors that in to the final contract.
MJ - 7 million
Andre Smith 7 million

I also see some possible cuts to save some cap space starting with Allen. I could see us have around 22 million in cap space. We have a ton of our own free agents to sign so I ma guessing that is another 12 million. That would only leave about 10 million so I don't see a marquee type siging coming in 2013 unless we don't resign Smith or MJ or both.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

I'm trying to think of FA success stories. Obviously Manning was one this season. Are there other FAs who came in and made a big impact their 1st year in the new system?
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
Cutting Wharton and Allen, two guys who've done virtually nothing for this franchise, would give us an additional $4.25million in cap space. Enough to sign a quality veteran at a weak spot.
Jamaal Anderson is due 2.5 million next season as well. So we could save close to 7 million cutting all of our free agent busts from last year.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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I'm trying to think of FA success stories. Obviously Manning was one this season. Are there other FAs who came in and made a big impact their 1st year in the new system?
BJGE..
Vincent Jackson with TB
Pierre Garcon would have had a huge year if he didn't get hurt.
Laron Landry was pretty solid for the Jets. And he will be back on the market.
Phillip Wheeler was Oakland's best LB and he too will be a free agent again.

Definitely seems like there are more guys who did not live up to their pay grade than did.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

This is the most recent projection I have seen. Which is the 55 million number you state.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012...t-cap-strategy

5 rookies and retaining only two of our free agents isn't getting us anywhere close to where we need to be with 27 of our guys set to become free agents.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/7/...gent-list-2013

We have been very close to the salary cap in most years. I believe last year was the most cap room we have had in quite awhile at the end of the year. With so many of our guys hitting free agency I think we are going to spend damn near all of our available money to prevent too much roster turn over.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by BoomerFan View Post
I'm trying to think of FA success stories. Obviously Manning was one this season. Are there other FAs who came in and made a big impact their 1st year in the new system?
Peyton Manning
Brandon Carr(Perfomance was right in line with his play in KC)
Vincent Jackson(great season)
Curtis Lofton(performed just as well as he did in ATL)
Ben Grubbs
Cortland Finnegan(101tackles, 3ints, and a p6)
Mike Tolbert(accounted for 7 rushing TDs)
BenJarvus Gree-Ellis
Pierre Garcon
LaRon Landry(made Pro Bowl)
Martellus Bennett
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by FRAv View Post
This won't even be an issue this offseason.
Per the new CBA rules players on their rookie contracts (4 years) can not begin extension negotiations
until they enter the final year of their contract. AJ will get his extension at the conclusion of next season.
This leaves either more space for us this year, or the FO may very well decide to save more back this year than the 89%
in order to unload more next season on Green and Dalton's extensions.
I don't think we see the huge splash of cash many are expecting during the offseason for this reason.
Oh wow, I didn't realize that. I agree about the lack of "splash", not that it comes as a huge surprise. The salary floor coming into play made me curious though. I wasn't sure until I looked around a bit and came to the conclusion that at least based on where we were entering 2012 cap space wise, the FO really isn't going to have spend all that much more money than they already were. Of course that's just 2012, I didn't look back at cap space left for years prior to that but I know last off season's FA run seemed about par for the course.

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Yep can't get Green locked up yet. It's time to get Geno locked up though....like yesterday. Honestly I think it'll be impossible for me to consider this offseason a success unless they get Geno paid. That has to be priority #1.

I wouldn't mind if they front loaded it too, even if that means we do alot less with other signings. It would help down the road.
Yes, absolutely. I think Geno is a bona fide All-Pro, and having one of those on the interior of your DLine is such a tremendous advantage for a defense. A DT like that sets the table for your edge rushers, keeps you LBs clean.....it's a beautiful thing.

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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Mike Brown already refused to extend Andre Smith. I personally think that's a smart move.

Smith has had motivational and maturity issues since before we even drafted him. They continue even today (gun at the airport).

He's had one decent season in the 4 he's been here. He's certainly not had a career worthy of a high 1st round pick, even with injury taken into account.

So, the Bengals have as much cap money as any other team in the league at last count (which I admit I haven't looked at in weeks).

So, I'm guessing we're looking for another LB high in the draft, with a RB at least with one of our 2 2nd round picks. Need a OT somewhere after that to replace Smith (or comb the free agency lists since we can afford a good one).
I thought Dre had been solid for the past two seasons not just one so I'd just as soon keep him. If the team feels like you do about it, I'd hope we'd sign a FA. I think we need to address RB first and foremost and then also SS and/or LB early in the draft. I'm not saying we necessarily draft all three of those spots with our first three picks, but I'm hoping to see at least two of those three spots drafted with our top three picks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
Cutting Wharton and Allen, two guys who've done virtually nothing for this franchise, would give us an additional $4.25million in cap space. Enough to sign a quality veteran at a weak spot.
I think I agree with the poster who mentioned letting Wharton battle it out with Boling, he's already under contract and quality depth is always a good thing. I agree on Allen, I imagine he's outta here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
Seems your math is correct on the 16 million to extend (a. Smith, MJ and if we decide to extend Geno early) contracts even though AJ can't be extended until after next year.

I see it as:

Geno = 9 million (would be more, but since he is getting a huge raise in 2013, I think he factors that in to the final contract.
MJ - 7 million
Andre Smith 7 million

I also see some possible cuts to save some cap space starting with Allen. I could see us have around 22 million in cap space. We have a ton of our own free agents to sign so I ma guessing that is another 12 million. That would only leave about 10 million so I don't see a marquee type siging coming in 2013 unless we don't resign Smith or MJ or both.
Me either, and that's why I looked at it. It doesn't appear to me that this salary floor forces the team to spend considerably more than it usually does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
Jamaal Anderson is due 2.5 million next season as well. So we could save close to 7 million cutting all of our free agent busts from last year.
I don't take Wharton getting cut for granted at all, I think they'll keep him around at least for TC but I agree on Anderson and Allen so that would be an 4 to 5 million bring the amount I think they'll end up spending into the 46-47 million range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
This is the most recent projection I have seen. Which is the 55 million number you state.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012...t-cap-strategy

5 rookies and retaining only two of our free agents isn't getting us anywhere close to where we need to be with 27 of our guys set to become free agents.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/7/...gent-list-2013

We have been very close to the salary cap in most years. I believe last year was the most cap room we have had in quite awhile at the end of the year. With so many of our guys hitting free agency I think we are going to spend damn near all of our available money to prevent too much roster turn over.
Yea, I wasn't really considering all the other guys that are up. Some will be gone, some will stay of course but at the end of the day I think we'll end up right around 13 million under the cap (which would put us right at the floor). I would love to see us spend all the way to the cap, that would be great although I would imagine it would be prudent to leave some meat on the bone to extend AJ with next year.
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When the opponent is focused and determined, as they tend to be in the big games, Lewis and Dalton melt and disintegrate.... Entirely out of their element.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:01 PM
hacker hacker is offline
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
Cutting Wharton and Allen, two guys who've done virtually nothing for this franchise, would give us an additional $4.25million in cap space. Enough to sign a quality veteran at a weak spot.
If Wharton is healthy, why not let him battle it out with Boling and get the best OG on the field that we can. Wharton is a nice veteran and we can use him.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:21 PM
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savagehenry54 savagehenry54 is offline
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Default Re: Cap money...what bengals have to spend

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If Wharton is healthy, why not let him battle it out with Boling and get the best OG on the field that we can. Wharton is a nice veteran and we can use him.
I agree, I think they at least bring him to training camp unless he appears way behind on his rehab in OTAs or something.
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When the opponent is focused and determined, as they tend to be in the big games, Lewis and Dalton melt and disintegrate.... Entirely out of their element.
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