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  #26  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by bengalfan4life27c View Post
Since he has to spend the money either way I just hope its on good productive players.
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Originally Posted by jsr18 View Post
if a team doesn't spend to the %age of the cap, the team can take the amount not spent and give it to rosterd players at the end of the season as a bonus
It's cumulative over a 4 year period. For the sake of argument, say the salary caps for the next 4 seasons are $120m, $130m, $140m, $150m. That totals $540m over a four year period. The CBA says that after the 2016 season the Bengals cash expenditures to the players over the peroid of 2013-2016 seasons will be totaled and must equal $529.2m (98%). If it does not, the Bengals will cut a check to the NFLPA for the difference to be divided amongst the players who were on the roster over that period. It will then repeat for a second 4 year cycle.
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2013, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
What's with people suggesting a switch to a 3-4 today? You have a defensive coordinator who's been really successful with a 4-3, you have the best DT in the league, along with two more talented DTs as well as a 2nd and 3rd round pick DT.

If they switched to a 3-4, they'd have to cut Thompson and Still, because you only need two NTs on a roster (Atkins and Peko).. then you'd have to find another ILB, which LB is already a weakness unless you're okay with Skuta being a starter. Then I guess you'd need two OLBs who can pass rush, because I don't think Howard is suited to be a 3-4 OLB....

So basically you'd be destructing the 6th overall defense, 8th scoring defense, 3rd in sacks defense.. just so you can pick up Barwin, who has 19 sacks in 4 seasons, including 3 during a season JJ Watt was double and triple teamed.

......Yeah.....
We have 3 NTs on the roster; Sims, Peko, Thompson; don't know where you got that from
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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We have 3 NTs on the roster; Sims, Peko, Thompson; don't know where you got that from
Sims is a free agent.
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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will we over pay garbage free agents like dexter jackson laverneus coles antonio bryant sam adams again. or will we pickup real free agents to help the team. Hope we address offensive tackle because I dont see andre resigning. Hope their are no Jamaal Anderson Jacob Bell or travelle whartons this year. Since he has to spend the money either way I just hope its on good productive players.
No it seems he learned his lesson from those signings if you have watched the free agency of the past couple years we are doing very well without overpaying.

J Anderson and Wharton both were hurt not exactly a bad signing as you cant predict those things... And if J Anderson didnt make the team Derek harvey might have and we might never ended up with Gilberry.

Jacob bell retired but we ended up with Zeitler and Boiling who both held there own.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Let Michael Johnson walk & Sign Cliff Avril. Someone who knows how to get to the quarterback.

Franchise tag Andre Smith

Sign Reggie Bush

2 big FA signing's by mike brown can really help this team. We are inches away from being a dominant team in the league.
Cliff Avril? Give me a break.
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  #31  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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What's with people suggesting a switch to a 3-4 today? You have a defensive coordinator who's been really successful with a 4-3, you have the best DT in the league, along with two more talented DTs as well as a 2nd and 3rd round pick DT.

If they switched to a 3-4, they'd have to cut Thompson and Still, because you only need two NTs on a roster (Atkins and Peko).. then you'd have to find another ILB, which LB is already a weakness unless you're okay with Skuta being a starter. Then I guess you'd need two OLBs who can pass rush, because I don't think Howard is suited to be a 3-4 OLB....

So basically you'd be destructing the 6th overall defense, 8th scoring defense, 3rd in sacks defense.. just so you can pick up Barwin, who has 19 sacks in 4 seasons, including 3 during a season JJ Watt was double and triple teamed.

......Yeah.....
Atkins would get destroyed as a NT. You have to have some girth to take on double teams and clog 2 gaps. Geno is a stallion, but at his size it would be a horrible fit.
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  #32  
Old 02-01-2013, 06:01 PM
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bengals Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
What's with people suggesting a switch to a 3-4 today? You have a defensive coordinator who's been really successful with a 4-3, you have the best DT in the league, along with two more talented DTs as well as a 2nd and 3rd round pick DT.

If they switched to a 3-4, they'd have to cut Thompson and Still, because you only need two NTs on a roster (Atkins and Peko).. then you'd have to find another ILB, which LB is already a weakness unless you're okay with Skuta being a starter. Then I guess you'd need two OLBs who can pass rush, because I don't think Howard is suited to be a 3-4 OLB....

So basically you'd be destructing the 6th overall defense, 8th scoring defense, 3rd in sacks defense.. just so you can pick up Barwin, who has 19 sacks in 4 seasons, including 3 during a season JJ Watt was double and triple teamed.

......Yeah.....
News Flash ...............Atkins is not a NT!
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  #33  
Old 02-01-2013, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
What's with people suggesting a switch to a 3-4 today? You have a defensive coordinator who's been really successful with a 4-3, you have the best DT in the league, along with two more talented DTs as well as a 2nd and 3rd round pick DT.

If they switched to a 3-4, they'd have to cut Thompson and Still, because you only need two NTs on a roster (Atkins and Peko).. then you'd have to find another ILB, which LB is already a weakness unless you're okay with Skuta being a starter. Then I guess you'd need two OLBs who can pass rush, because I don't think Howard is suited to be a 3-4 OLB....

So basically you'd be destructing the 6th overall defense, 8th scoring defense, 3rd in sacks defense.. just so you can pick up Barwin, who has 19 sacks in 4 seasons, including 3 during a season JJ Watt was double and triple teamed.
......Yeah.....
I noticed that a couple of these very much cohesive lemmings are getting lost/stuck on the term "NT". Don't let 'em bother ya. I know exactly what you mean + your post made absolute perfect sense brother
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  #34  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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No it seems he learned his lesson from those signings if you have watched the free agency of the past couple years we are doing very well without overpaying.

J Anderson and Wharton both were hurt not exactly a bad signing as you cant predict those things... And if J Anderson didnt make the team Derek harvey might have and we might never ended up with Gilberry.

Jacob bell retired but we ended up with Zeitler and Boiling who both held there own.
Anderson was horrible before he got hurt. Wharton wasnt bad but we could have done better. Ill give a pass regarding Allen because he was productive for the Texans previous year. He was just banged up and could never get healthy. Lawson was real liability this season. Though he was productive in his first season. Howard was a real steal those have been few and far between with this franchise. I credit Zimmer for Newman and Clements production the last 2 years not our personnel department. Its not like either of those guys would have been a starter anywhere else.
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  #35  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Let Michael Johnson walk & Sign Cliff Avril. Someone who knows how to get to the quarterback.

Franchise tag Andre Smith

Sign Reggie Bush

2 big FA signing's by mike brown can really help this team. We are inches away from being a dominant team in the league.
Fail on the letting MJ walk. dude is a beast. our DL is fine as far as starters go . id trade for marshawn lynch if we could or get DMC if he could stay healthy for a season.
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  #36  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by bengalfan4life27c View Post
will we over pay garbage free agents like dexter jackson laverneus coles antonio bryant sam adams again. or will we pickup real free agents to help the team. Hope we address offensive tackle because I dont see andre resigning. Hope their are no Jamaal Anderson Jacob Bell or travelle whartons this year. Since he has to spend the money either way I just hope its on good productive players.
If they want to stay on top of the 89% of the cap salary floor this coming season they'll have to spend 108 million. Which would leave them 13 million in unused cap space. In 2012, they had 15 million in unused cap space.

They don't have to spend to the floor every year but they have to be within it over a four year period. I think they'll stay rt at the floor since the cap goes up every year. This way they can save themselves the most money possible as they go along year by year.

So look for the Bengals to spend 108 million on player salaries this year. Relative to the cap, it's only 2 million more than they spent last year, so the salary floor is not going to force MB to go on a spending spree.
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  #37  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Let Michael Johnson walk & Sign Cliff Avril. Someone who knows how to get to the quarterback.

Franchise tag Andre Smith

Sign Reggie Bush

2 big FA signing's by mike brown can really help this team. We are inches away from being a dominant team in the league.
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  #38  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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The money, 55.1m, will most likely be spent to do the following (based on who the coaches seem to like and past history of tagging and resigning, as well as approach to free agency)........

First, they need to put aside money for draft picks. Considering their picks and current draft pay scale, let's say 7m. That takes us down to 48.1m.

Then there's Geno's contract. Using Haloti Ngata as a recent reference point, he got 5 years, 61m, with 20m in each of the first two years. I doubt the Bengals go that high. 16m in year one seems likely, as it still needs to be frontloaded to a point. So that takes us down to 32.1m. Then we have 4 restricted free agents that need to be tendered. Vincent Rey, Cedric Peerman and Jeromy Miles are all fine special teamers and provide depth. They will recieve original round tenders at 1.3m each (assuming the tender info released is correct). RFA Andrew Hawkins will recieve an exclusive rights tender for a player with 2 years experience...555k. Rounding off, that takes us to 27.5m.

Now comes the very important decision of who to place the franchise tag on. The Bengals don't usually use high end tags, but will have to this year with two tier 1 free agents. So Andre or MJ? I think they tag Andre at 9.66 for these reasons....he is one of the top 5-7 RT's in the league, the are no similar talents in the draft at the position and Mike has usually taken care of offensive tackles. Plus, I think they will be more confident they can come to a long term deal with MJ if he reaches the market. So Andre's tag would take us to about 18m.

Teams now have a 3 day window before free agency begins to negotiate with their own guys. I think MJ gets done in this period. I would think something like 5 years, 37.5m will get done. Let's assume they front load a bit and pay 9m in year one. Now we have 9m left to resign guys that they most likely want to keep like Huber, Brown or Nugent, Adam Jones, Clark Harris, Thomas Howard, Newman and Crocker.

To resign anyone else, either our own or other free agents, you would have to cut someone like Jason Allen or Jamal Anderson.

So as you can see, even though it seems like a ton of money, it really isn't considering everything we need to get done.
I have never heard of a 3 day window to sign free agents. Why can't they try to extend or sign their own free agents right now?
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  #39  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Then there's Geno's contract. Using Haloti Ngata as a recent reference point, he got 5 years, 61m, with 20m in each of the first two years. I doubt the Bengals go that high. 16m in year one seems likely, as it still needs to be frontloaded to a point.
The 20 million over the first two years is misleading. The signing bonus and the roster bonus is prorated over the life of the contract. So Ngata's cap numbers are/were 5.7mil (2011), 10.4 (2012), 11.5 (2013), 16 (2014), and 16 (2015). We can give Geno a boatload of money up front and it gets pro-rated over the contract and management can play with the salary to manipulate the cap hit. They can also do roster bonuses, option bonuses, etc. to work the cap even more.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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The 25m dollar signing bonus is prorated at only 5m per year. However in year one he also reieved an addition 10m dollar "bonus" in cash to start the season to make the total cap hit around 20m. This kind of alloting of addituonal bonuses is so you can absorb the bulk of the cap hit early in the contract, which is why it's refered to as frontloading.
The 10m bonus is pro-rated over the next 4 years so there is no 20million cap hit year this year, last year, or any year for Ngata. I put the salary cap hits up there. Last year was 5.7, this year is 10.4, and 11.5 for next year. Last two seasons are 16M each. Front loaded is where the money comes from, the cap can be manipulated any way they want it to be depending on base salary, when they give the bonuses, and what the bonuses are for.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore.../haloti-ngata/
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  #41  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by Billy Bengal View Post
The money, 55.1m, will most likely be spent to do the following (based on who the coaches seem to like and past history of tagging and resigning, as well as approach to free agency)........

First, they need to put aside money for draft picks. Considering their picks and current draft pay scale, let's say 7m. That takes us down to 48.1m.

Then there's Geno's contract. Using Haloti Ngata as a recent reference point, he got 5 years, 61m, with 20m in each of the first two years. I doubt the Bengals go that high. 16m in year one seems likely, as it still needs to be frontloaded to a point. So that takes us down to 32.1m. Then we have 4 restricted free agents that need to be tendered. Vincent Rey, Cedric Peerman and Jeromy Miles are all fine special teamers and provide depth. They will recieve original round tenders at 1.3m each (assuming the tender info released is correct). RFA Andrew Hawkins will recieve an exclusive rights tender for a player with 2 years experience...555k. Rounding off, that takes us to 27.5m.

Now comes the very important decision of who to place the franchise tag on. The Bengals don't usually use high end tags, but will have to this year with two tier 1 free agents. So Andre or MJ? I think they tag Andre at 9.66 for these reasons....he is one of the top 5-7 RT's in the league, the are no similar talents in the draft at the position and Mike has usually taken care of offensive tackles. Plus, I think they will be more confident they can come to a long term deal with MJ if he reaches the market. So Andre's tag would take us to about 18m.

Teams now have a 3 day window before free agency begins where they can negotiate with agents of free agents from other teams. I see Mike Brown waiting till then to guage the interest and market value. I think MJ gets done in this period. I would think something like 5 years, 37.5m will get done. Let's assume they front load a bit and pay 9m in year one. Now we have 9m left to resign guys that they most likely want to keep like Huber, Brown or Nugent, Adam Jones, Clark Harris, Thomas Howard, Newman and Crocker.

To resign anyone else, either our own or other free agents, you would have to cut someone like Jason Allen or Jamal Anderson.

So as you can see, even though it seems like a ton of money, it really isn't considering everything we need to get done.
Jammal Anderson is as good as gone. If we do everything as you suggest we should have enough to throw at a number 2 like greg jennings or brian hartline. which would be a productive player I can live with. Howard isnt going to be a hot commodity coming off an acl tear we should get an affordable rate for him to return.
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  #42  
Old 02-02-2013, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

What happened to Billy Bengal? That didn't last long. Perhaps we were too hard on him...
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
If they want to stay on top of the 89% of the cap salary floor this coming season they'll have to spend 108 million. Which would leave them 13 million in unused cap space. In 2012, they had 15 million in unused cap space.

They don't have to spend to the floor every year but they have to be within it over a four year period. I think they'll stay rt at the floor since the cap goes up every year. This way they can save themselves the most money possible as they go along year by year.

So look for the Bengals to spend 108 million on player salaries this year. Relative to the cap, it's only 2 million more than they spent last year, so the salary floor is not going to force MB to go on a spending spree.
Sad, but probably true.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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News Flash ...............Atkins is not a NT!
Is he a def end?
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  #45  
Old 02-04-2013, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

Do you guys think that our FA's will want to stay? Re: Johnathan Joseph took less money to get away, or have they bought into the system? I know Cinci isn't a big or flashy market. I worry about this scenario that other, more attractive teams fleece our young talent, kinda like the Pirates of baseball.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:48 PM
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bengals Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

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What happened to Billy Bengal? That didn't last long. Perhaps we were too hard on him...
Banned because he posted porn during some meltdown.. banned with all malicious feelings possible because it was nasty porn at that.
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  #47  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: So how will Mike Brown spend the money hes forced too?

Bengals FA's: ( Re-Sign in BOLD )

UFA’s
3 Josh Brown – K
22 Nate Clements – CB
33 Chris Crocker – SS
91 Robert Geathers - DE
95 Wallace Gilberry – DE
7 Bruce Gradkowski – QB
46 Clark Harris - LS
53 Thomas Howard - LB
10 Kevin Huber – P
93 Michael Johnson – DE
24 Adam Jones – CB
99 Manny Lawson – LB
40 Brian Leonard – RB
58 Rey Maualuga – LB
23 Terence Newman – CB
2 Mike Nugent – K
74 Dennis Roland – OT
28 Bernard Scott – RB
90 Pat Sims – DT
51 Dan Skuta – LB
71 Andre Smith – T
19 Brandon Tate – WR

RFA’s:
45 Jeromy Miles – SS
30 Cedric Peerman – RB
89 Richard Quinn – TE

ERFA’s
16 Andrew Hawkins – WR
57 Vincent Rey - LB

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...#ixzz2JIP8EU66



FA’s I would love them to sign:

Titus Young – WR
Danny Woodhead – RB
James Casey – FB/TE
Cliff Avril – DE
Vernon Gholston – DE
Sean Smith – CB
Carey Williams – CB
Brian Hartline – WR
Kenny Phillips – S
William Moore – S
Jake Long – OT - Move Whit to LG
Jairus Byrd – S
Mike Wallace – WR
Dwayne Bowe – WR
Colin Cochart - TE
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