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  #1  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:50 AM
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Default The key to the draft...

...is to land the top player at either LB, S or WR.

In other words, draft Ogletree, Vaccaro if Ogletree's not there, Allen if neither is there, and
IMO, trade down if none of those guys are there and get Minter, Brown, Elam or Hunter.
As for RB, Bernard, Ellington, Randle, Barner and Franklin should be considered to comp. BJGE

A
1. Alec Ogletree
2a. Giovanni Bernard
2b. Justin Hunter
3. Baccari Rambo

B
1. Kenny Vaccaro
2a. Khaseem Greene
2b. Da' Rick Rogers
3. Kenjon Barner

C
1. Keenan Allen
2a. Khaseem Greene
2b. Andre Ellington
3. Baccari Rambo

D
1. Kevin Minter
2a. Matt Elam
2b. Justin Hunter
3a. Kenjon Barner
3b. Robert Alford

Basically, if we come away with the top play from one of those positions, we can continue
our tradition of good drafts.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:04 AM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

I think you are pigeonholing this draft way too much. This draft is stacked with very good NFL talent between rounds 2 and 6. What this draft lacks is 1st round star power. The players you have isolated are arguably not even the best all around prospects at their positions.

I personally would much rather have Phillip Thomas over Vacarro any day of the week. Thomas is a true ballhawk and that is what is needed at the position in the pass happy NFL. Not to mention he can flat lay the wood when it comes to hitting.

I would as well rather have Kerwynn Williams over Ellington when it comes to the roles they will play at the next level. Where are backs like Franklin, Michael, Gilleslee, Lacy, Randle, etc. ?
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

The key to this draft is to not draft for need or reach for a player. If the top rated guy on our board is there grab him. Obviously that doesn't include QB.

With picks 1 through 2B you get guys that can come in and contribute right away not projects or injured players.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
I think you are pigeonholing this draft way too much. This draft is stacked with very good NFL talent between rounds 2 and 6. What this draft lacks is 1st round star power. The players you have isolated are arguably not even the best all around prospects at their positions.

I personally would much rather have Phillip Thomas over Vacarro any day of the week. Thomas is a true ballhawk and that is what is needed at the position in the pass happy NFL. Not to mention he can flat lay the wood when it comes to hitting.

I would as well rather have Kerwynn Williams over Ellington when it comes to the roles they will play at the next level. Where are backs like Franklin, Michael, Gilleslee, Lacy, Randle, etc. ?
IMO Thomas isn't even close to Vacarro. I think we won't even get a sniff of Vacarro because he will be long gone. Thomas is a good ball hawk but missess tackles too much. I still think he would be good in the later rounds though.

I really think Kerwynn Williams is going to get drafted high then alot of these guys getting talked about ahead of him.
If we could pair Lacy with Williams that would be instant upgrade for the next five years.

I do wish Ellington could have practiced/played in the Senior Bowl, I'm not sure what to think of him.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
I think you are pigeonholing this draft way too much. This draft is stacked with very good NFL talent between rounds 2 and 6. What this draft lacks is 1st round star power. The players you have isolated are arguably not even the best all around prospects at their positions.

I personally would much rather have Phillip Thomas over Vacarro any day of the week. Thomas is a true ballhawk and that is what is needed at the position in the pass happy NFL. Not to mention he can flat lay the wood when it comes to hitting.

I would as well rather have Kerwynn Williams over Ellington when it comes to the roles they will play at the next level. Where are backs like Franklin, Michael, Gilleslee, Lacy, Randle, etc. ?
I like Thomas also, but I think Vaccarro is a much closer Earl Thomas clone. I do like Thomas though if we miss/pass on Vaccarro in round 1. He would be a good fit at #54 or #55 (our 2b pick).
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Why would we waste a pick on a receiver when we have Sanu and Jones still developing and looking promising?

Also, did you forget about center?
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Don't reach, it's that simple.


The Bengals have enough holes and question marks that they can draft for value, minus some positions )P,K, QB, DT, etc...), and be stacked for the future. Look to fill needs of course, and better yet shore a position or two up in FA, like WR.


Should be a good draft day for the Bengals, unless they overdraft at a position that is filled, as they did with Still and Thompson. One was a great value, the other, just have to question the move, especially with the time they both spent as inactive.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

The key is to acquire the most talented players available.

You never know from one year to the next what position is going to be a need.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:26 PM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
IMO Thomas isn't even close to Vacarro. I think we won't even get a sniff of Vacarro because he will be long gone. Thomas is a good ball hawk but missess tackles too much. I still think he would be good in the later rounds though.

I really think Kerwynn Williams is going to get drafted high then alot of these guys getting talked about ahead of him.
If we could pair Lacy with Williams that would be instant upgrade for the next five years.

I do wish Ellington could have practiced/played in the Senior Bowl, I'm not sure what to think of him.
Thomas - 3 seasons 127 solo tackles

Vicarro - 4 seasons 158 solo tackles

Hmmm. ....imagine how good he could be if he learns not to miss so many tackles!
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:27 PM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
I like Thomas also, but I think Vaccarro is a much closer Earl Thomas clone. I do like Thomas though if we miss/pass on Vaccarro in round 1. He would be a good fit at #54 or #55 (our 2b pick).
Why?
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
IMO Thomas isn't even close to Vacarro.
Most football writers/observers disagree with you. Thomas is a unanimous All-American, which means at least 5 organizations (including the most prestigious AP) voted him 1st Team All-American. Vacarro got voted All-American by only 1 organization the lowly Pro Football Weekly.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradfritz21 View Post
Why would we waste a pick on a receiver when we have Sanu and Jones still developing and looking promising?

Also, did you forget about center?

We need an upgrade to the WR corp, it's not even debatable.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradfritz21 View Post
Why would we waste a pick on a receiver when we have Sanu and Jones still developing and looking promising?

Also, did you forget about center?
Ah, another fan throwing Robinson under the bus
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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Originally Posted by Natikid873 View Post
Ah, another fan throwing Robinson under the bus
Throwing him under the bus? It's not like he's Max Unger. If there's a top C prospect available in the first 2 rounds, and he's BPA, we should definitely take him. Upgrading the line improves the entire offense.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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We need an upgrade to the WR corp, it's not even debatable.
It's not debatable that Sanu can get the job done? Have you seen Sanu play? Watch some college tape and tell me that he doesn't run great routes, have great hands, and amazing concentration, which is what we need out of our number two, possession receiver.

He struggled at the combine, which is why he dropped so much, but every expert says that he's very underrated.

Just watch this TD catch and tell me that, when you pair those with college highlights, it doesn't get you excited.

Jones is also a hell of a prospect that should have gone in round two or three and fell to five. He looked good here with awareness of where he was on the field and who was around, then he makes a good move into the endzone.

He also looks good in this short college highlight film.

Point is that they both look pretty good, so we don't need to waste a pick on a receiver when we have other important positions to improve.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:10 PM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

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Ah, another fan throwing Robinson under the bus
Nothing like the many fans throwing Dalton, Sanu, Jones, etc under the bus though is it?
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:11 PM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

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We need an upgrade to the WR corp, it's not even debatable.
It most certainly is debatable.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradfritz21 View Post
It's not debatable that Sanu can get the job done? Have you seen Sanu play? Watch some college tape and tell me that he doesn't run great routes, have great hands, and amazing concentration, which is what we need out of our number two, possession receiver.

He struggled at the combine, which is why he dropped so much, but every expert says that he's very underrated.

Just watch this TD catch and tell me that, when you pair those with college highlights, it doesn't get you excited.

Jones is also a hell of a prospect that should have gone in round two or three and fell to five. He looked good here with awareness of where he was on the field and who was around, then he makes a good move into the endzone.

He also looks good in this short college highlight film.

Point is that they both look pretty good, so we don't need to waste a pick on a receiver when we have other important positions to improve.
I would have to agree, here. Sanu and Jones both showed flashes and the potential to be very good WR's as rookies, which is about all you can expect from a rookie WR in the NFL. WR has one of the steepest learning curves, so the chances of getting a guy that can step in and be a good starter immediately outside the Top 10 is like catching lightning in a bottle. Throwing more youth into the mix to deal with the same learning curve Sanu and Jones are dealing with currently won't accomplish much. IF we are going to try to add a #2 WR, it should be a veteran in FA that can step in and be solid from day 1, not another high draft pick.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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I would have to agree, here. Sanu and Jones both showed flashes and the potential to be very good WR's as rookies, which is about all you can expect from a rookie WR in the NFL. WR has one of the steepest learning curves, so the chances of getting a guy that can step in and be a good starter immediately outside the Top 10 is like catching lightning in a bottle. Throwing more youth into the mix to deal with the same learning curve Sanu and Jones are dealing with currently won't accomplish much. IF we are going to try to add a #2 WR, it should be a veteran in FA that can step in and be solid from day 1, not another high draft pick.
Only if you think you're set for the future with the young guys.

You don't just need 2 WR's you can count on, you need 3. We have 2, with AJ and Sanu. Jones is nothing more than a maybe right now.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:59 PM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

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Only if you think you're set for the future with the young guys.

You don't just need 2 WR's you can count on, you need 3. We have 2, with AJ and Sanu. Jones is nothing more than a maybe right now.
I think we will add another receiver in this draft I just do not think it is worth a top of the draft selection. I however would not have a problem with the selection if for some reason Patterson is still sitting there at 21.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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Most football writers/observers disagree with you. Thomas is a unanimous All-American, which means at least 5 organizations (including the most prestigious AP) voted him 1st Team All-American. Vacarro got voted All-American by only 1 organization the lowly Pro Football Weekly.
Yes and Colin Kline was a Heisman canidate, college is college. How many All-Americans are sitting on their couch right now.

Here's some All Americans, Robert Sands, Taylor Mays. Rolando McClain had 12 votes, Colt McCoy 8, Shipley 5.

Do you know who the only vote AJ. Green got for All American was from, the lowly Pro Football Weekly. Ryan Broyles had 8, Alshon Jeffery 5, Blackmon 12.
Geno Atkins 0 votes, Terrance Cody 6, Brian Price 3.

I'm sorry for crushing your All American dreams?
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:18 PM
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bengals Re: The key to the draft...

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Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
Yes and Colin Kline was a Heisman canidate, college is college. How many All-Americans are sitting on their couch right now.

Here's some All Americans, Robert Sands, Taylor Mays. Rolando McClain had 12 votes, Colt McCoy 8, Shipley 5.

Do you know who the only vote AJ. Green got for All American was from, the lowly Pro Football Weekly. Ryan Broyles had 8, Alshon Jeffery 5, Blackmon 12.
Geno Atkins 0 votes, Terrance Cody 6, Brian Price 3.

I'm sorry for crushing your All American dreams?
Well give me something here. You brought up tackling and I was able to show you that the numbers do not agree. So what is it that makes Thomas so bad? We certainly do not want to look into Ints as Thomas had more in a single season than Vacarro had in his career.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
Yes and Colin Kline was a Heisman canidate, college is college. How many All-Americans are sitting on their couch right now.

Here's some All Americans, Robert Sands, Taylor Mays. Rolando McClain had 12 votes, Colt McCoy 8, Shipley 5.

Do you know who the only vote AJ. Green got for All American was from, the lowly Pro Football Weekly. Ryan Broyles had 8, Alshon Jeffery 5, Blackmon 12.
Geno Atkins 0 votes, Terrance Cody 6, Brian Price 3.

I'm sorry for crushing your All American dreams?
...and the vast majority of those players were elite prospects and taken very high in the draft; not sure of your point, unless it was to show that some highly touted college players don't fully bloom in the NFL (not new news). Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Peyton Manning were also multiple source All-Americans, why didn't you use them as examples?

AJ wasn't a multiple source All-American because he missed 4 games. An example or 2 can be found for anything' Arian Foster went undrafted, do you think we should not draft a RB. Bottomline you said Vacarro was better than Thomas "and it isn't even close". I merely pointed out some folks might think it's closer than you think.

All American dreams still alive and well.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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Well give me something here. You brought up tackling and I was able to show you that the numbers do not agree. So what is it that makes Thomas so bad? We certainly do not want to look into Ints as Thomas had more in a single season than Vacarro had in his career.
I gave BFine something about the argument of All Americans.


I'm glad he was dominating teams like.

Weber St. Colorado, Tulsa, San Deigo St., Colorado St, Bosie St., New Mexico, Hawaii, Nevada, Air Force, and let not forget SMU.
Not a lot of NFL QB's coming out of that pack.

I said he was a ball hawk hence the int's, IMO Vacarro projects as a better NFL safety, it's my opinion. It is also IMO that Vaccarro goes ahead of Thomas in the draft.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: The key to the draft...

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...and the vast majority of those players were elite prospects and taken very high in the draft; not sure of your point, unless it was to show that some highly touted college players don't fully bloom in the NFL (not new news). Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Peyton Manning were also multiple source All-Americans, why didn't you use them as examples?

AJ wasn't a multiple source All-American because he missed 4 games. An example or 2 can be found for anything' Arian Foster went undrafted, do you think we should not draft a RB. Bottomline you said Vacarro was better than Thomas "and it isn't even close". I merely pointed out some folks might think it's closer than you think.

All American dreams still alive and well.
You proved my point being an All American doesn't mean a whole lot because it could go either way right, draft high bust, draft high great.

I was comparing your argument between players, one being a highly voted ALL american and one not. Geno 0, B Price 3.

Last year D.Still got 10 All American votes, Fletcher Cox 1. Who was drafted in the 1st, Cox.

OSU said "personally would much rather have Phillip Thomas over Vacarro any day of the week"

I said IMO, not in the college football writers opinion. My opinion is based on where he is projected to be drafted and that he seems like a better NFL safety. IMO Playing in the Big 12 would prepare a S a little better then the Mount West.

Here is a quiz, without looking name 3 QB's in the Mount West conference, heck name 2.

OK I give up, Phillip Thomas is the best S in the 2013 Draft.
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