Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

I would.

There are plenty of Colin Kaepernick #7 jerseys at Cardboard Heroes. There's one with your name on it.

Why? What do you think Dalton does better? What specifically do you think Dalton has over CK? Or do you just want to make 'witty' quips? Seriously, I'm trying to understand the logic that some have that say, 'yeah, Dalton is better'.

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

Why? What do you think Dalton does better? What specifically do you think Dalton has over CK? Or do you just want to make 'witty' quips? Seriously, I'm trying to understand the logic that some have that say, 'yeah, Dalton is better'.

He beat the Ravens.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

Why? What do you think Dalton does better? What specifically do you think Dalton has over CK? Or do you just want to make 'witty' quips? Seriously, I'm trying to understand the logic that some have that say, 'yeah, Dalton is better'.

For the offense the Bengals run, Andy Dalton is better. For the offense San Francisco runs, Colin Kaepernick is better. While we're at it, I note that neither of these quarterbacks won a Lombardi Trophy this year. A better comparison to Andy Dalton in terms of talent and playing style is Joe Flacco but, at least for now, Joe Flacco is better.

[ExtraNirvana]

They're very different players first if all. More importantly look at the talent San Fransisco has. I think Andy would play just as well if he was in Colins shoes.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by corey513

He beat the Ravens.

Weak, dude. He threw for a TD in a meaningless game v. the Ravens second string defense. Let's not make more out of that than needs to be.

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

For the offense the Bengals run, Andy Dalton is better. For the offense San Francisco runs, Colin Kaepernick is better. While we're at it, I note that neither of these quarterbacks won a Lombardi Trophy this year. A better comparison to Andy Dalton in terms of talent and playing style is Joe Flacco but, at least for now, Joe Flacco is better.

Neither won a Lombardi but one QB excelled in the playoffs and the other turned in the worst QB performance of the tournament. CK looked like he belonged..Dalton looked like the stage was too big and the game too fast. He was awful...

I think a young Palmer is a good comparison to Flacco...big dudes, slow, calm, big arms and can scorch you deep. Dalton, not seeing it. Plus, why do you think Dalton is better for the Bengals offense. CK throws better short, intermediate and deep. He also gives you the extra dimension of being deadly on the run. How would that not fit in any offense?

Originally Posted by ExtraNirvana

They're very different players first if all. More importantly look at the talent San Fransisco has. I think Andy would play just as well if he was in Colins shoes.

I think he'd look a lot like Alex Smith in SF...where last year the niners were ranked near the bottom in offense. The niners were not an offensive juggernaut until CK took over. He's been a difference maker. Don't see how it can be argued.

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

Weak, dude. He threw for a TD in a meaningless game v. the Ravens second string defense. Let's not make more out of that than needs to be.



Neither won a Lombardi but one QB excelled in the playoffs and the other turned in the worst QB performance of the tournament. CK looked like he belonged..Dalton looked like the stage was too big and the game too fast. He was awful...

I think a young Palmer is a good comparison to Flacco...big dudes, slow, calm, big arms and can scorch you deep. Dalton, not seeing it. Plus, why do you think Dalton is better for the Bengals offense. CK throws better short, intermediate and deep. He also gives you the extra dimension of being deadly on the run. How would that not fit in any offense?



I think he'd look a lot like Alex Smith in SF...where last year the niners were ranked near the bottom in offense. The niners were not an offensive juggernaut until CK took over. He's been a difference maker. Don't see how it can be argued.

Its not weak its a fact. Yeah Kap was balling so hard last night they went into halftime looking dead, then he chokes and overthrows Crabtree on the final throw. Now that teams have film on him I doubt he has the same success. I don't get the Hate for Dalton he leads the Bengals(with major help from the defense) to back to back play-offs and people wanna crap on him. That said he better improve.

[TheLeonardLeap]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

Neither won a Lombardi but one QB excelled in the playoffs and the other turned in the worst QB performance of the tournament. CK looked like he belonged..Dalton looked like the stage was too big and the game too fast. He was awful...

One of the two wasn't told to not throw to his best WR for the first 35 minutes... and one of the two didn't have a RB who was running for 44 yards on 3 carries.. but inexplicably only gets 3 carries the entire first half........ You'd be amazed how those two things happening will make any QB look like the stage was too big and too fast. 14.7 yards per carry and you only run it 3 times.. best WR in the AFC and you refuse to call a play that gets the ball to him.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by corey513

Its not weak its a fact. Yeah Kap was balling so hard last night they went into halftime looking dead, then he chokes and overthrows Crabtree on the final throw. Now that teams have film on him I doubt he has the same success. I don't get the Hate for Dalton he leads the Bengals(with major help from the defense) to back to back play-offs and people wanna crap on him. That said he better improve.

It's completely weak. yes, it's a fact. But that was a glorified pre-season game. It was meaningless. Did Flacco even play? A better measuring stick would be game 1 when both teams were 0-0 and nothing was determined. But hey, if you want to say that Dalton is a better QB bc the Bengals beat the Ravens 2nd stringers go for it. Pretty terrible argument though.

Plus, talk about defenses figuring out a guy...how was Dalton over the last 5 or 6 games? And why does Dalton get credit for 'leading' the Bengals to the playoffs when no one will give CK credit for getting to the SB. Especially when it was the niners offense that got them there of which he is the critical piece (lets not kid ourselves...Bengals got to the playoffs on the defense's back).

So I'll ask you what I've been asking the others (which no one has answered yet)

Specifically, what part of Dalton's game do you think is superior to CK's?

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

One of the two wasn't told to not throw to his best WR for the first 35 minutes... and one of the two didn't have a RB who was running for 44 yards on 3 carries.. but inexplicably only gets 3 carries the entire first half........ You'd be amazed how those two things happening will make any QB look like the stage was too big and too fast. 14.7 yards per carry and you only run it 3 times.. best WR in the AFC and you refuse to call a play that gets the ball to him.

Do we know that he was 'told' not to? I know that Gresh was the primary, but what would stop Dalton from going through progressions and not throwing it Green's way? It was an awful game plan, though. But you have to admit, Dalton was abysmal in that game. Missed open WR's. Even on the ill advised Marvin Jones throw he was inaccurate (put the ball behind him). He was terrible. I don't see how this can be spun. We all watched it. Honestly, I think it was the worst game of his career. He looked so unsure of himself and just did not seem to be playing with any confidence.

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

It's completely weak. yes, it's a fact. But that was a glorified pre-season game. It was meaningless. Did Flacco even play? A better measuring stick would be game 1 when both teams were 0-0 and nothing was determined. But hey, if you want to say that Dalton is a better QB bc the Bengals beat the Ravens 2nd stringers go for it. Pretty terrible argument though.

Plus, talk about defenses figuring out a guy...how was Dalton over the last 5 or 6 games? And why does Dalton get credit for 'leading' the Bengals to the playoffs when no one will give CK credit for getting to the SB. Especially when it was the niners offense that got them there of which he is the critical piece (lets not kid ourselves...Bengals got to the playoffs on the defense's back).

So I'll ask you what I've been asking the others (which no one has answered yet)

Specifically, what part of Dalton's game do you think is superior to CK's?

I give credit to kap for "leading" them to the SB. He didnt play all that well when he got there though(esp. in the red zone) But look what happened when the Ravens coaches had an extra week to prepare for him, if the lights didnt go out imo this game wouldnt have been close, cause you could tell Kap was nervous.

I think Dalton has better accuracy in the short to intermediate throws when the o-line is blocking. Sometimes Kap throws to hard. That said i like Kap and think he will be a fine QB.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by corey513

I give credit to kap for "leading" them to the SB. He didnt play all that well when he got there though(esp. in the red zone) But look what happened when the Ravens coaches had an extra week to prepare for him, if the lights didnt go out imo this game wouldnt have been close, cause you could tell Kap was nervous.

I think Dalton has better accuracy in the short to intermediate throws when the o-line is blocking. Sometimes Kap throws to hard. That said i like Kap and think he will be a fine QB.

I think Kap is more accurate in all throws but we'll have to disagree there. To answer my own question, I think Dalton is really good in the red zone. I'd rather have CK there but Dalton was strong prior to the final 5 or 6 games.

I think CK was nervous which is totally understandible. Once he settled in he started balling. Once the offense was humming I don't think the Ravens D had an answer (and they were probably the best post-season defense at least). I think CK displays incredible touch also. As far as the last play, I don't think he choked. I think he had to make a split second decision and gave his WR a chance to make a play. he had a guy in his face almost immediately. It was a good play on both sides of the ball...probably a penalty but could go either way.

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

I think Kap is more accurate in all throws but we'll have to disagree there. To answer my own question, I think Dalton is really good in the red zone. I'd rather have CK there but Dalton was strong prior to the final 5 or 6 games.

I think CK was nervous which is totally understandible. Once he settled in he started balling. Once the offense was humming I don't think the Ravens D had an answer (and they were probably the best post-season defense at least). I think CK displays incredible touch also. As far as the last play, I don't think he choked. I think he had to make a split second decision and gave his WR a chance to make a play. he had a guy in his face almost immediately. It was a good play on both sides of the ball...probably a penalty but could go either way.

Id have trusted Dalton to throw that fade to AJ 100% to win the game. Dalton in the red zone is money, Kap not so much. Although Jim screwed up by not having Kap at least try one run to the end zone. Kap wouldnt have had time to calm down if not for the blackout 49ers got lucky there.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by corey513

Id have trusted Dalton to throw that fade to AJ 100% to win the game. Dalton in the red zone is money, Kap not so much. Although Jim screwed up by not having Kap at least try one run to the end zone. Kap wouldnt have had time to calm down if not for the blackout 49ers got lucky there.

It helps to have AJ to go up and get those jump balls as he's probably the best in the game at that...but Andy has made good decisions overall in the redzone and has been effective. Not sure how much the blackout helped/or hurt. Both teams had to deal with it, but the niners definitely game out on fire. Maybe it was just time and they started clicking..who knows. I give them credit for their furious comeback. If they get a couple breaks on calls/non-calls CK leads the biggest comeback in SB history. there was the hold on Crabtree and also the blatant off sides on the 2 point conversion. I think the PI that sustained the ravens drive was pretty ticky tacky considering the non-call on the crabtree play. It was a damn good game, though.

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

It helps to have AJ to go up and get those jump balls as he's probably the best in the game at that...but Andy has made good decisions overall in the redzone and has been effective. Not sure how much the blackout helped/or hurt. Both teams had to deal with it, but the niners definitely game out on fire. Maybe it was just time and they started clicking..who knows. I give them credit for their furious comeback. If they get a couple breaks on calls/non-calls CK leads the biggest comeback in SB history. there was the hold on Crabtree and also the blatant off sides on the 2 point conversion. I think the PI that sustained the ravens drive was pretty ticky tacky considering the non-call on the crabtree play. It was a damn good game, though.

Well how about the no call after the defender hit Flacco after he was already outta bounds? There were multiple calls that could have been called on both teams that werent. Dont make excuses for him. In the big game Kap and the 49ers came up short. I agree it was a good game. Also is Dalton supposed to apologize for having Green? Kap has Vernon and Crabtree so its not like he's doing it on his own.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by corey513

Well how about the no call after the defender hit Flacco after he was already outta bounds? There were multiple calls that could have been called on both teams that werent. Dont make excuses for him. In the big game Kap and the 49ers came up short. I agree it was a good game. Also is Dalton supposed to apologize for having Green? Kap has Vernon and Crabtree so its not like he's doing it on his own.

I'm not making excuses for anyone. I think CK played extremely well and doesnt have anythign to be ashamed of. As far as the Flacco hit, yeah, it could've been called but didn't they score on that drive anyway? In other words, did that really have any effect on the game? No, Dalton isn;t supposed to apologize for having Green, no less than Stafford should C.Johnson. However, those WR's are difference makers. They're playmakers. Crabtree is good. V. Davis is a little overrated IMO but a good player (especially in the red zone) but neither are anywhere near the weapon that green is. He's amazing.

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

I'm not making excuses for anyone. I think CK played extremely well and doesnt have anythign to be ashamed of. As far as the Flacco hit, yeah, it could've been called but didn't they score on that drive anyway? In other words, did that really have any effect on the game? No, Dalton isn;t supposed to apologize for having Green, no less than Stafford should C.Johnson. However, those WR's are difference makers. They're playmakers. Crabtree is good. V. Davis is a little overrated IMO but a good player (especially in the red zone) but neither are anywhere near the weapon that green is. He's amazing.

I think they kicked a field goal, but had that been called the may have scored a TD so yeah that could have changed the game. Kap had a better corp of recievers Crabtree(who has really improved) Moss, vernon, not to mention Gore and james. Who does dalton have besides Green? Gresham(ha) and the world beater BJGE

[D.Boon]

San Fran has a superior O-line (although Cincy's is not as bad as people make it out to be...in fact, the O-line is pretty good but the niners are awesome there. Probably the best Oline in the game).

San Fran has far superior talent at RB

If I got to pick, I'd take Cincy's talent in terms of WR's/TE's. You've got the all world Green, Gresham, Jones, Sanu and Hawkins. Green makes the difference there.

Coaching SF get's a huge edge.

So in short, I think both teams have good offensive personnel. I think the Bengals offense should've been better than it was down the stretch. But the lack of talent to work with seems to be the excuse that most give for Dalton's play (that or they blame Kyle Cook).

[corey513]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

San Fran has a superior O-line (although Cincy's is not as bad as people make it out to be...in fact, the O-line is pretty good but the niners are awesome there. Probably the best Oline in the game).

San Fran has far superior talent at RB

If I got to pick, I'd take Cincy's talent in terms of WR's/TE's. You've got the all world Green, Gresham, Jones, Sanu and Hawkins. Green makes the difference there.

Coaching SF get's a huge edge.

So in short, I think both teams have good offensive personnel. I think the Bengals offense should've been better than it was down the stretch. But the lack of talent to work with seems to be the excuse that most give for Dalton's play (that or they blame Kyle Cook).

Agreed with the bolded. Its not an excuse for dalton, jones play was mediocre at best, sanu got hurt as he was coming on. The only 2 reliable targets were AJ and the 5'7 Hawkins. It suckked that the offense stalled after Sanu got hurt, hopefully next year they will put it all together on offense.

[ExtraNirvana]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

I think he'd look a lot like Alex Smith in SF...where last year the niners were ranked near the bottom in offense. The niners were not an offensive juggernaut until CK took over. He's been a difference maker. Don't see how it can be argued.

So because you guess Dalton plays like Alex Smith () if he were playing for the 49ers he is worse then Kapernick.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by corey513

Agreed with the bolded. Its not an excuse for dalton, jones play was mediocre at best, sanu got hurt as he was coming on. The only 2 reliable targets were AJ and the 5'7 Hawkins. It suckked that the offense stalled after Sanu got hurt, hopefully next year they will put it all together on offense.

Hopefully. I'm all for adding some talent at RB and WR. I think Jones was not bad down the stetch. He proved to be capable of beating his man...but he has limited experience and didn't seem to establish a rapport with Dalton. They jsut did not seem to be on the same page. As hard as many think I am on Dalton, my biggest issue is with Gruden. But we'll see. I think the Bengals have the talent. Let's see if they can add to it and maximize the guys that they have.

[McC]

Sorry. Did not mean to walk in on your private conversation.

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by corey513

He beat the Ravens.

The back-up beat the Ravens.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by THEBURG

The back-up beat the Ravens.

The back-up beat the back-up Ravens.

While the starters were out there, Dalton made Flacco look like a chump.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by THEBURG

The back-up beat the Ravens.

[Hammerthis]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

I don't hate him at all and I challenge you to find me criticize him. I am the one who said Dalton doesn't need AJ to be a good QB.
Other's will say that Dalton is too short, has happy feet, or other critism of Dalton. You won't find that with me. If someone says that Dalton got us to the playoff in 2011 and 2012 and I respond the Defense is the common thread that got us into the playoffs in 2009, 2011 and 2012. All of a sudden I am criticizing Dalton. That is the problem with some, if you don't say 100% nice things about Dalton then you hate him.
I try to give a fair and honest comparison of Dalton to other QB's in the NFL and if I say Colin or Russel or Cam is better then Dalton it is not because I hate Dalton, it is because I think those other QB's are better. Notice, I did not say Luck or RG3 was better then Dalton, however, I am sure that the fans of Indianapolis and Washington prefer their respected QB's over Dalton.
I am just not drinking his juice, like many here are. He can do no wrong for some of you and that is fine since this is a Bengals website and all. But it is ignorant to say that Dalton is better then Colin. And I don't care what anybody says Dalton is the 3rd best QB in the AFC North.

This is a fair and balanced post. I wish there were more like it in the Jungle. Keep it comming BengalYankee!