2/4 Draft

[berserkerone88]

Retain:
Andre Smith, RT
Michael Johnson, DE (Tag)
Terrance Newman, CB
Adam Jones, CB
Kevin Huber, P
Josh Brown, K
Clark Harris, LS
Thomas Howard, LB
Rey Maualuga, LB
Wallace Gilberry, DL
Bruce Gradkowski, QB

Free Agency:
William Moore, S
Daryl Smith, LB

Draft:
Round 1: Arthur Brown, OLB, Kansas State
Round 2: DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
Round 2: Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, DE, Florida State
Round 3: Johnathan Franklin, RB, UCLA
Round 4: Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
Round 5: DeVonte Holloman, LB, South Carolina
Round 6: Cornelius Washington, DE, Georgia
Round 6: Kerwynn Williams, RB, Utah State

UDFA:
Alex Hurst, OL, LSU
Emory Blake, WR, Auburn
Braden Wilson, FB, KSU
Isi Sofele, RB, Cal
Chris Jones, DT, BGSU
Baker Steinkuhler, DL, Nebraska
Jordan Kovacs, S, Michigan

Depth Chart:
QB: Dalton | Gradkowski
RB: Green-Ellis | Franklin | Peerman | Williams
FB: Pressley
WR: Green | Hopkins | Sanu | Hawkins | Jones
TE: Gresham | Charles
LT: Whitworth | Collins
LG: Boling | Wharton
C: Cook | Robinson
RG: Zeitler
RT: Smith

DE: Dunlap | Washington
DT: Peko | Thompson
DT: Atkins | Still
DE: Johnson | Carradine | Gilberry
SLB: Smith | Holloman | Skuta
MLB: Burfict | Maualuga
WLB: Brown | Howard | Lemur
CB: Hall | Jones | McFadden
CB: Newman | Kirkpatrick | Prater
FS: Neslon | Iloka
SS: Moore | Mays

K: Brown
P: Huber
LS: Harris
K/PR: Williams

[NATI BENGALS]

I would rather tag Andre than MJ if it came down to one or the other. Keep the carrot on a stick out in front of Andre. I question his work ethic 100 times more than MJ. And I think it is easier to find a quality RT than a RDE. MJ has expressed his desire to remain a Bengal. Lock him up before he has another double digit sack year and the price goes up even more.

The last time we drafted a WILL in the first he had top 10 talent and even that didn't work out for us. Unless the guy is an absolute stud or a great pass rusher I really have no desire to pick a LB in the first. And IMO Brown is not a stud and I don't think he would be better than Howard if Howard is 100% healthy.

We would be in bad shape if BJGE got hurt. I think Franklin is overrated. I have a problem with his build. There are not many HBs with short legs and long torsos who excel. He has the Houshmanzadeh build.

I think the 2nd is too early for Tank considering his is probably a PUP candidate coming off the torn ACL. If we were looking DE we could probably get comparable talent that is healthy at that pick.

I see Holloman is more of a WILL than SAM. But that is nitpicking he could probably play either.

I wouldn't complain too much but I think we can do a hell of a lot better than Brown in the first, so starting with him would worry me.

[ibengals]

Looks like a damn good LB group to me. Could be a log jam there, but that's fine with me, best man wins. Haven't really watched much of Carradine, but if the draft/free agency ended like this, I'd be thrilled. McFadden would be a steal there.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

I would rather tag Andre than MJ if it came down to one or the other. Keep the carrot on a stick out in front of Andre. I question his work ethic 100 times more than MJ. And I think it is easier to find a quality RT than a RDE. MJ has expressed his desire to remain a Bengal. Lock him up before he has another double digit sack year and the price goes up even more.

Andre has already had back to back seasons as a top 10 (if not top 5) RT in the NFL. MJ had the least impressive 10 sack season ever. Seriously. Hard worker, good guy. But he had sooooo many stretches of being invisible. Far too much to lock him up now. Andre is much more important to the offense than MJ is to the defense.

The last time we drafted a WILL in the first he had top 10 talent and even that didn't work out for us. Unless the guy is an absolute stud or a great pass rusher I really have no desire to pick a LB in the first. And IMO Brown is not a stud and I don't think he would be better than Howard if Howard is 100% healthy.

This is stupid. You wouldn't take a LB unless he is a pass rusher? I could understand top 10. But the first round? Ignorance. Brown is a stud. Have you watched him play? He does everything well. One of the surest tacklers in the draft. Quick, fluid in coverage. Aggressive vs the run. Exceptional read/react time. Closes quicker than almost anyone. He is also very powerful for an "undersized" LB. He routinely sheds blocks of much bigger OL. He isn't like Rivers or Curry. Much more of an explosive player. If he was 6-3 and 240lbs he would be a top 10 pick. Easily.

Howard will be 30 to start the season and coming off an ACL. Bad combo. Maybe if he was younger.

We would be in bad shape if BJGE got hurt. I think Franklin is overrated. I have a problem with his build. There are not many HBs with short legs and long torsos who excel. He has the Houshmanzadeh build.

3rd round overrated? He has surprising lower body drive, great hands, some of the best cuts and lateral movement in the class. The only thing dropping him is past fumble issues.

I think the 2nd is too early for Tank considering his is probably a PUP candidate coming off the torn ACL. If we were looking DE we could probably get comparable talent that is healthy at that pick.

Tank is a top 20 pick if he doesn't get hurt. You won't find much comparable talent in the 2nd or 3rd. Not a chance. Some of the highest upside of any DE. Wouldn't shock me to see him be a sleeper in the late first.

I see Holloman is more of a WILL than SAM. But that is nitpicking he could probably play either.

I wouldn't complain too much but I think we can do a hell of a lot better than Brown in the first, so starting with him would worry me.

Originally Posted by ibengals

Looks like a damn good LB group to me. Could be a log jam there, but that's fine with me, best man wins. Haven't really watched much of Carradine, but if the draft/free agency ended like this, I'd be thrilled. McFadden would be a steal there.

I still don't get how McFadden keeps slipping under the radar. Shut down type CB who I think really goes in the 2nd when all is said and done.

Carradine is one of the more explosive, athletic DE's in this draft. If he hadn't gotten hurt, first round talent. Worth the risk with an extra 2nd.

[BobJones4980]

Acquire all the Cornelius's.

I like the mock though Id have to see Tanks progress with the injury before id take him in round 2, rest of it id be pretty happy.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by BobJones4980

Acquire all the Cornelius's.

I like the mock though Id have to see Tanks progress with the injury before id take him in round 2, rest of it id be pretty happy.

It's a strong name.

[bfine32]

1- Not a fan of Brown and especially at #21. Dude couldn't cut it in the Big Time at The U. He looked terrible against Oregon in thier Bowl Game. Might as well just roll with the undersized LB out of K-State already on the roster.

2A- Definately could use another WR with the potential to be an outstanding #2 WR and a lot of folks around here like this guy.

2B- I'd prefer the guy that he below of on the FSU depth chart, but that's just me. Definately high risk/reward candidate.

3- Definately an upgrade at #2 RB, that could become the go-to guy

4- If there, definately.

Good on the rest.

I would have to learn to like a couple guys if the draft fell this way. I would hate not to take one of the high rated Safeties.

[ibengals]

Originally Posted by bfine32

1- Not a fan of Brown and especially at #21. Dude couldn't cut it in the Big Time at The U. He looked terrible against Oregon in thier Bowl Game. Might as well just roll with the undersized LB out of K-State already on the roster.

Cam Newton couldn't cut it at Florida, Troy Aikman couldn't cut it at Oklahoma. Sometimes it just isn't a fit for that player. Kind of a stupid reason not to draft someone, don't you think?

[NATI BENGALS]

I'm sorry but Arthur Brown at 21 would be the textbook definition of reaching for a need.

He has 3 career sacks, 3 career INTs, 17 career TFL's, and 6 pass break ups.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...015/index.html

I have a hard time believing he is even going to go in the first.

I have watched him play and he is average at everything. He never jumped out at me and had me saying oh man this guy will be a game changing difference maker. He relies on his athleticism and when he gets to the NFL and isn't the fastest most athletic guy on the field he will look even more average.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by ibengals

Kind of a stupid reason not to draft someone, don't you think?

Not really. One of my favs (Chris Harper) also transfered from an elite program to K-State and I like him just fine; but not in the 1st round.

BTW was the starting QB and doing just fine at Oklahoma, got injured, OU went back to a wishbone and Aikman decided to go to a more pass oriented system.

Cam was doing fine at UF and beat out Brantley to be the backup to Tebow and was getting snaps. Broke his ankle, stole a computer, then transfered.

Neither transfered due to lack of talent. AB has ILB skills in a SS body, not someone I'm excited about using a #21 pick on. Where do you think he will play in the Pros?

[ibengals]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

I'm sorry but Arthur Brown at 21 would be the textbook definition of reaching for a need.

He has 3 career sacks, 3 career INTs, 17 career TFL's, and 6 pass break ups.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...015/index.html

I have a hard time believing he is even going to go in the first.

I have watched him play and he is average at everything. He never jumped out at me and had me saying oh man this guy will be a game changing difference maker. He relies on his athleticism and when he gets to the NFL and isn't the fastest most athletic guy on the field he will look even more average.

I don't think that could be further from the truth. He relies on his good technique, and great instincts. He's a good athlete too, but that's not why he's so effective. He's aggressive, yet he plays under control. The only knock I have on him besides his size is that he tends to overrun plays occasionally. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one, but don't be surprised if he comes off the board even before we pick.

[Natikid873]

Hate to be redundant here, but if were gonna get Brown with our first pick, trade down at least 10 spots, might as well out of the 1st.
Would rather have Ogletree at 1 or Greene at 2a. I think Tank can definitely slip into the 3rd with his ACL, and would rather tag Andre like Nati Bengals said.

[Jasonew6]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

I'm sorry but Arthur Brown at 21 would be the textbook definition of reaching for a need.

He has 3 career sacks, 3 career INTs, 17 career TFL's, and 6 pass break ups.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...015/index.html

I have a hard time believing he is even going to go in the first.

I have watched him play and he is average at everything. He never jumped out at me and had me saying oh man this guy will be a game changing difference maker. He relies on his athleticism and when he gets to the NFL and isn't the fastest most athletic guy on the field he will look even more average.

Agreed. And it's no small reach.

[Shake n Blake]

Love how you addressed LB. I'm always cool with more pass rushers, although I feel Geathers will be back.

I'd be thrilled with Hopkins at 2a and Franklin in the 3rd.

I also mocked McFadden to us in the 4th, so obviously I like that pick as well. I also dig the idea of taking 2 RBs. Good mock Berserker.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Natikid873

Hate to be redundant here, but if were gonna get Brown with our first pick, trade down at least 10 spots, might as well out of the 1st.
Would rather have Ogletree at 1 or Greene at 2a. I think Tank can definitely slip into the 3rd with his ACL, and would rather tag Andre like Nati Bengals said.

How far did it cause Gresham to slip?
Tank was playing at a first round level. He is rumored to be ready for a pro-day just before the draft.

Why? What has MJ done over Andre to deserve the extension more?

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

Agreed. And it's no small reach.

It isn't a reach. At all.

I will never understand the Ogletree love but the Brown hate. It is ridiculous and makes me question how much anyone has actually watched either guy.

[BobJones4980]

I've noticed there aren't many fans of Brown on this board which is odd because he is one of the better LBs in the draft.

Great in pass coverage, even with his size is he sheds blocks and makes the tackles in the run game, great speed and instincts. He is exactly the type of guy we need at WLB, good coverage skills and plays hard but not out of control. While he may be somewhat undersized it isn't as big of a deal as some want it to be.

The biggest knock on Brown (6-1 228) that people keep bring up is his size yet these are the same people I see mocking Ogletree(6-3 232) or Greene(6-1 230) to us .

[pulses]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Retain:
Andre Smith, RT
Michael Johnson, DE (Tag)
Terrance Newman, CB
Adam Jones, CB
Kevin Huber, P
Josh Brown, K
Clark Harris, LS
Thomas Howard, LB
Rey Maualuga, LB
Wallace Gilberry, DL
Bruce Gradkowski, QB

Free Agency:
William Moore, S
Daryl Smith, LB

Draft:
Round 1: Arthur Brown, OLB, Kansas State
Round 2: DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
Round 2: Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, DE, Florida State
Round 3: Johnathan Franklin, RB, UCLA
Round 4: Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
Round 5: DeVonte Holloman, LB, South Carolina
Round 6: Cornelius Washington, DE, Georgia
Round 6: Kerwynn Williams, RB, Utah State

UDFA:
Alex Hurst, OL, LSU
Emory Blake, WR, Auburn
Braden Wilson, FB, KSU
Isi Sofele, RB, Cal
Chris Jones, DT, BGSU
Baker Steinkuhler, DL, Nebraska
Jordan Kovacs, S, Michigan

Depth Chart:
QB: Dalton | Gradkowski
RB: Green-Ellis | Franklin | Peerman | Williams
FB: Pressley
WR: Green | Hopkins | Sanu | Hawkins | Jones
TE: Gresham | Charles
LT: Whitworth | Collins
LG: Boling | Wharton
C: Cook | Robinson
RG: Zeitler
RT: Smith

DE: Dunlap | Washington
DT: Peko | Thompson
DT: Atkins | Still
DE: Johnson | Carradine | Gilberry
SLB: Smith | Holloman | Skuta
MLB: Burfict | Maualuga
WLB: Brown | Howard | Lemur
CB: Hall | Jones | McFadden
CB: Newman | Kirkpatrick | Prater
FS: Neslon | Iloka
SS: Moore | Mays

K: Brown
P: Huber
LS: Harris
K/PR: Williams

I'm not comfortable drafting a DE who just tore his ACL and might not even play next year. Brandon Jenkins would be a better selection at that spot IMO.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by pulses

I'm not comfortable drafting a DE who just tore his ACL and might not even play next year. Brandon Jenkins would be a better selection at that spot IMO.

The hilarity.
Let's not take a DE who was hurt....and draft one who was hurt not even 3 months or so earlier.
Jenkins is a 3-4 LB all the way. He struggles to hold his ground when at DE.

And why wouldn't Tank be able to play? This isn't 2004. Guys are coming back quicker and quicker. Palmer, Peterson....it doesn't take a year plus to get back.

[pulses]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

The hilarity.
Let's not take a DE who was hurt....and draft one who was hurt not even 3 months or so earlier.
Jenkins is a 3-4 LB all the way. He struggles to hold his ground when at DE.

And why wouldn't Tank be able to play? This isn't 2004. Guys are coming back quicker and quicker. Palmer, Peterson....it doesn't take a year plus to get back.

well if that's the case then why has Quanterus Smith dropped from a 2nd or 3rd round pick to a 7th with the same injury that tank does.....he has just as much upside as tank does IMO.

[NATI BENGALS]

Originally Posted by ibengals

I don't think that could be further from the truth. He relies on his good technique, and great instincts. He's a good athlete too, but that's not why he's so effective. He's aggressive, yet he plays under control. The only knock I have on him besides his size is that he tends to overrun plays occasionally. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one, but don't be surprised if he comes off the board even before we pick.

Sean Weatherspoon went 19th overall to the Falcons three years ago and the stats he put up the year before he came out were crushing what Brown put up this year, and he was probably more of an athletic freak. Hightower went 25th last year to the Patriots and I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Brown.

You have a case of obsession of a great athlete at a position of need. It's OK I've had it before.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

Sean Weatherspoon went 19th overall to the Falcons three years ago and the stats he put up the year before he came out were crushing what Brown put up this year, and he was probably more of an athletic freak. Hightower went 25th last year to the Patriots and I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Brown.

You have a case of obsession of a great athlete at a position of need. It's OK I've had it before.

Oh good god.
Make it stop.
Just make it stop.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by pulses

well if that's the case then why has Quanterus Smith dropped from a 2nd or 3rd round pick to a 7th with the same injury that tank does.....he has just as much upside as tank does IMO.

Because he played for ****ing WESTERN KENTUCKY.
He needed it more than Tank.
Tank's 11 sacks in 12 games at FSU is more impressive than anything Smith did at WKU.

And you still have yet to explain the sense and logic behind drafting a guy who was injured barely before a guy you have issues drafting because of injury.

[pulses]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Because he played for ****ing WESTERN KENTUCKY.
He needed it more than Tank.
Tank's 11 sacks in 12 games at FSU is more impressive than anything Smith did at WKU.

And you still have yet to explain the sense and logic behind drafting a guy who was injured barely before a guy you have issues drafting because of injury.

Brandon Jenkins injury was minor unlike tank and smith's. I would draft jenkins but would stay away from Tank and Smith.

And as far as where you play and what numbers you put up doesn't mean **** that theory ended along time ago!! If a guy is productive he's productive no matter if he plays at FSU or WKU it doesn't matter.

Dude had 1 good season in the college and that's it. No thanks I'll pass.

[BobJones4980]

Originally Posted by pulses

Brandon Jenkins injury was minor unlike tank and smith's. I would draft jenkins but would stay away from Tank and Smith.

And as far as where you play and what numbers you put up doesn't mean **** that theory ended along time ago!! If a guy is productive he's productive no matter if he plays at FSU or WKU it doesn't matter.

No. You see small school guys put up huge numbers every year that go very late and some even undrafted at times, level of competition is very important. Most of the small school guys that go early impress in the off-season to go along with those stats.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by pulses

Brandon Jenkins injury was minor unlike tank and smith's. I would draft jenkins but would stay away from Tank and Smith.

And as far as where you play and what numbers you put up doesn't mean **** that theory ended along time ago!! If a guy is productive he's productive no matter if he plays at FSU or WKU it doesn't matter.

haha so minor he MISSED THE ENTIRE SEASON?
Im done. Just done. This is lunacy. Sheer lunacy.

And yes it matters. Competition level matters. Especially when it comes to evaluating before the draft. He needed it more. He wasn't going to have a ton of exposure and tape.