Do you really have faith that Dalton is the QB that leads us to a championship?

[CornerBlitz]

Well I for one am still quite skeptical. I have gone back and forth with this question. After watching the superior arms of Flacco and Kaepernick in the superbowl it only makes me think of the initial reservations i had about Dalton. While his arm strength isn't awful there is still a lot to be desired. Besides that he doesn't have the athleticism to make plays out of the pocket like we have seen with guys like Rodgers, Kaep, RG3.

When Palmer was in his prime back in 06 i was confident that he was capable. Most considered him a top 4 QB in the league. He reminded me of the arm flacco has. Dalton on the other hand isn't nearly as good. When you watch Dalton he doesn't really impress you....he doesn't have a great arm, he isn't athletically gifted, and in my opinion he isn't clutch. Case in point was that over throw to Green. Look at the types of throws Kaep and Flacco were making in the playoffs and superbowl. Unfortunately Dalton is not even capable of some of those throws.

Look I like Dalton, I think he is a serviceable QB, but he is not the answer if we are serious about winning a SB. When you have players like Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, Brees, and young players like Kaep, Luck, RG3 coming into their own i think we need to seriously consider drafting a QB. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes it hurts to hear the truth.

Sports is about winning championships not being mediocre. High Risk High Reward is the way to go......just like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. They threw him out there after 8 weeks because they knew that Alex Smith would only take them so far......and it ended up panning out. I know Bengals fans are happy about making the playoffs every now and then but is it really that enjoyable to get knocked out in the 1st round every season? I want to see this team hold up the Lombardi.......and I have serious doubts that will ever happen with Dalton running the show.

Well......there you have it.

[dcm226]

Blah blah blah.

[CornerBlitz]

Originally Posted by dcm226

Blah blah blah.

Thanks for your enlightening post.

[wolfkaosaun]

See, I do have faith. Remember the beginning of the season? He was doing extremely well. Great passer rating, yards, TDs, points, everything. Heck, Dalton had also won some of those games. He also has 5 4th quarter comebacks in his career (7 if you include games that were tied).

Yes, I believe he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. Look at Flacco, he needed pieces around him. Matt Ryan did as well just t win his first playoff game. Dalton is young and only has one full offseason under his belt. I do believe he can lead this team to a Super Bowl and win it.He just needs to be more consistent, and that comes with time.

And I am willing to give him time. Just give him a C, viable #2 WR, and a good RB (like the Lawfirm, but can be upgraded), and Dalton will do EXTREMELY well. We saw how Dalton looked with Sanu in the lineup.

Give Dalton time. I do believe he can do this. And believe that he will.

[ishouldbegm]

our offensive line is not as good as the 49ers pats or broncos.

[CornerBlitz]

Originally Posted by wolfkaosaun

See, I do have faith. Remember the beginning of the season? He was doing extremely well. Great passer rating, yards, TDs, points, everything. Heck, Dalton had also won some of those games. He also has 5 4th quarter comebacks in his career (7 if you include games that were tied).

Yes, I believe he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. Look at Flacco, he needed pieces around him. Matt Ryan did as well just t win his first playoff game. Dalton is young and only has one full offseason under his belt. I do believe he can lead this team to a Super Bowl and win it.He just needs to be more consistent, and that comes with time.

And I am willing to give him time. Just give him a C, viable #2 WR, and a good RB (like the Lawfirm, but can be upgraded), and Dalton will do EXTREMELY well. We saw how Dalton looked with Sanu in the lineup.

Give Dalton time. I do believe he can do this. And believe that he will.

Guys like Flacco have the natural talent to be awesome. Yes it took a while for his game to get to the level that it was during the playoffs but considering the types of QBs that are in the league now Dalton has a long way to go. And what really is his peak? Guys like Flacco have a much higher ceiling.

[dr1441]

Plain and simple no.

[CornerBlitz]

Originally Posted by dr1441

Plain and simple no.

I don't see how people can come to the conclusion of YES. If you were NOT a Bengals fan and you watched Andy Dalton would you think "Yea this guy is a Superbowl caliber QB"

[Paulie]

I really like Andy but no

[McC]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Well I for one am still quite skeptical. I have gone back and forth with this question. After watching the superior arms of Flacco and Kaepernick in the superbowl it only makes me think of the initial reservations i had about Dalton. While his arm strength isn't awful there is still a lot to be desired. Besides that he doesn't have the athleticism to make plays out of the pocket like we have seen with guys like Rodgers, Kaep, RG3.

When Palmer was in his prime back in 06 i was confident that he was capable. Most considered him a top 4 QB in the league. He reminded me of the arm flacco has. Dalton on the other hand isn't nearly as good. When you watch Dalton he doesn't really impress you....he doesn't have a great arm, he isn't athletically gifted, and in my opinion he isn't clutch. Case in point was that over throw to Green. Look at the types of throws Kaep and Flacco were making in the playoffs and superbowl. Unfortunately Dalton is not even capable of some of those throws.

Look I like Dalton, I think he is a serviceable QB, but he is not the answer if we are serious about winning a SB. When you have players like Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, Brees, and young players like Kaep, Luck, RG3 coming into their own i think we need to seriously consider drafting a QB. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes it hurts to hear the truth.

Sports is about winning championships not being mediocre. High Risk High Reward is the way to go......just like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. They threw him out there after 8 weeks because they knew that Alex Smith would only take them so far......and it ended up panning out. I know Bengals fans are happy about making the playoffs every now and then but is it really that enjoyable to get knocked out in the 1st round every season? I want to see this team hold up the Lombardi.......and I have serious doubts that will ever happen with Dalton running the show.

Will......there you have it.

Ask me again in a year. The whole offense needs to get better, with no exceptions. There were a lot of plays left on the field by the offense the past season.

I wanna see everybody get better collectively and add some talent at a couple spots. If this happens, Andy will be better.

Under the right circumstances, imo, Andy can lead us there. So the organization has to create the right circumstances.

He probably can't toss the team on his back and carry you down the yellow brick road, but he can do his part.

[junglester]

I like Dalton as a QB, but he is not going to be elite. He is no Brady or Manning. I think the Bengals will not make the SuperBowl with him as QB.

[Shady]

He's got room for improvement, but he's NOT the reason we didn't go further in the playoffs. Part of that was Gresham's awful performance against Houston. Part of it was Gruden's inability to make the right adjustments. Part of it was a struggle OLine. Part of it was that Black Hole in the middle of our defense.

Give Andy enough time in the pocket and a REAL #2 WR, and we'll win the division outright next season and go far into the playoffs in 2013.

[CornerBlitz]

Originally Posted by McC

Ask me again in a year. The whole offense needs to get better, with no exceptions. There were a lot of plays left on the field by the offense the past season.

I wanna see everybody get better collectively and add some talent at a couple spots. If this happens, Andy will be better.

Under the right circumstances, imo, Andy can lead us there. So the organization has to create the right circumstances.

He probably can't toss the team on his back and carry you down the yellow brick road, but he can do his part.

QBs that are playing at an elite level win championships. Unfortunately Dalton is not elite and i doubt he ever will be.

Unless we have the defense of the ravens 12 years ago or the Bucs a few years after that I don't see the Bengals winning a SB with Dalton.

What does Andy Dalton do exceptionally well?
Nothing.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Guys like Flacco have the natural talent to be awesome.

HAHAHAHA!!! Are you being serious right now? Oh man, you're so far off the reservation, you might as well be in Europe. Flacco is Captain Checkdown-or-Bombout; he couldn't hit a middle of the road pass before Boldin started bailing him out and Pitta came in. The kid has always had a good line and he's always had a defense carrying him, to say nothing for the fact that Ray Rice is a security blanket any NFL QB would kill for. Flacco is nothing without the piece around him. To put it in perspective, Flacco threw for less TD's than Andy Dalton with more weapons, a better line, and a knockout run game. If guys like Flacco and Dilfer can win Super Bowls, Dalton can win like 7.

Originally Posted by dr1441

Plain and simple no.

And why not? Is it because he hasn't done it in his first 2 years? I don't know where Bengals fans got this sense of 'we're the best and deserve Super Bowl wins NOW!', but it's getting old. How many times has the team been blown up and started over? This is the most stable team Cincinnati has had since Boomer Esiason was a QB, and you would-be spoiled little turd-burglar fans can't stand it for some reason. I get the being tired of losing and I get the wanting the team to succeed, but you have to be realistic about it. The Patriots didn't wake up one day and be like 'let's dominate for 20 years' - they had to build to it, and they had a harder time than the Bengals did doing it.

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

I don't see how people can come to the conclusion of YES. If you were NOT a Bengals fan and you watched Andy Dalton would you think "Yea this guy is a Superbowl caliber QB"

It's not all about the QB; Trent Dilfer (read it again until it gets into your skull) won a SB. TRENT. DILFER. Or if that isn't bad enough, look at a guy like Dan Marino - he never won a Super Bowl; does that make him a non-Super Bowl caliber QB? No, it makes him unlucky.

You want to keep talking about being objective, but you're not doing it. You just slam on players to slam on them. You can't single one guy out when an entire team is defunct come crunch time. Hell, everyone's golden boy Geno Atkins did precisely nothing in the playoffs, but nobody is burning him. I wonder why that is?

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

What does Andy Dalton do exceptionally well?
Nothing.

He gets blamed for things that aren't all on him pretty well.

[CleverDevil]

It is a tough question to answer. The obvious answer that we all WANT unanimously would be yes. And I am no mystic or soothsayer, so obviously I could be wrong.

Right now I will say no. Obviously we need more help at different spots all over the team. It is a team game. But just boiling it down to the quarterback position, I have a hard time right now seeing Andy as the guy to get it done. OP had great points about Kaepernick and Flacco's arms on display during the Superbowl, and having that kind of natural arm talent (which we all can agree Andy does not possess) can cover up a lot of sins. If Andy was a kid with a Palmer type arm then he would have a lot more leeway in this argument.

The obvious caveats that people will throw out is Montana and Brady, neither of whom possessed the arms of guys like Favre or Marino, but therein lies the problem. Using those two almost makes Andy look worse because, so far at least to me, I haven't seen all this mental makeup that people have lauded since he was drafted. He always seems uneasy stepping up in the pocket, unwilling to hang in when pressure is around, and fails to progress through his reads. It will be the mental aspect of the game that he needs to master before we should realistically have this discussion, which is unnerving, since it is much tougher to master that then learning to throw a proper out route.

All negativity aside, I am looking forward to, hopefully, a large leap forward in this area from him in the coming season. In no way should we be bailing now, he is only a couple seasons in. But it should be looked out for on whether or not his mental game is advancing enough season to season, game to game. He will never blow another team off the field throwing 20 yard darts all around, but if he can get the Joe Cool/Tom Terrific mindset and level headedness down in big time situations, there may be hope.

It is a difficult tightrope to walk, especially if he does not improve in those areas next year. If that is the (purely hypothetical, as of now) case, then I agree that we may be needing to look for a new franchise guy once Andy's rookie deal runs out.

[gardner30]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Well I for one am still quite skeptical. I have gone back and forth with this question. After watching the superior arms of Flacco and Kaepernick in the superbowl it only makes me think of the initial reservations i had about Dalton. While his arm strength isn't awful there is still a lot to be desired. Besides that he doesn't have the athleticism to make plays out of the pocket like we have seen with guys like Rodgers, Kaep, RG3.

When Palmer was in his prime back in 06 i was confident that he was capable. Most considered him a top 4 QB in the league. He reminded me of the arm flacco has. Dalton on the other hand isn't nearly as good. When you watch Dalton he doesn't really impress you....he doesn't have a great arm, he isn't athletically gifted, and in my opinion he isn't clutch. Case in point was that over throw to Green. Look at the types of throws Kaep and Flacco were making in the playoffs and superbowl. Unfortunately Dalton is not even capable of some of those throws.

Look I like Dalton, I think he is a serviceable QB, but he is not the answer if we are serious about winning a SB. When you have players like Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, Brees, and young players like Kaep, Luck, RG3 coming into their own i think we need to seriously consider drafting a QB. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes it hurts to hear the truth.

Sports is about winning championships not being mediocre. High Risk High Reward is the way to go......just like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. They threw him out there after 8 weeks because they knew that Alex Smith would only take them so far......and it ended up panning out. I know Bengals fans are happy about making the playoffs every now and then but is it really that enjoyable to get knocked out in the 1st round every season? I want to see this team hold up the Lombardi.......and I have serious doubts that will ever happen with Dalton running the show.

Will......there you have it.

You don't think he can win a Super Bowl because he doesn't have super arm strength?

That's it?

Pretty weak argument if you ask me.

I have lots of questions about Dalton but arm strength isn't in the top 3.

[CornerBlitz]

[quote=BigPapaKain;2801654]HAHAHAHA!!! Are you being serious right now? Oh man, you're so far off the reservation, you might as well be in Europe. Flacco is Captain Checkdown-or-Bombout; he couldn't hit a middle of the road pass before Boldin started bailing him out and Pitta came in. The kid has always had a good line and he's always had a defense carrying him, to say nothing for the fact that Ray Rice is a security blanket any NFL QB would kill for. Flacco is nothing without the piece around him. To put it in perspective, Flacco threw for less TD's than Andy Dalton with more weapons, a better line, and a knockout run game. If guys like Flacco and Dilfer can win Super Bowls, Dalton can win like 7.



And why not? Is it because he hasn't done it in his first 2 years? I don't know where Bengals fans got this sense of 'we're the best and deserve Super Bowl wins NOW!', but it's getting old. How many times has the team been blown up and started over? This is the most stable team Cincinnati has had since Boomer Esiason was a QB, and you would-be spoiled little turd-burglar fans can't stand it for some reason. I get the being tired of losing and I get the wanting the team to succeed, but you have to be realistic about it. The Patriots didn't wake up one day and be like 'let's dominate for 20 years' - they had to build to it, and they had a harder time than the Bengals did doing it.



It's not all about the QB; Trent Dilfer (read it again until it gets into your skull) won a QB. TRENT. DILFER. Or if that isn't bad enough, look at a guy like Dan Marino - he never won a Super Bowl; does that make him a non-Super Bowl caliber QB? No, it makes him unlucky.

You want to keep talking about being objective, but you're not doing it. You just slam on players to slam on them. You can't single one guy out when an entire team is defunct come crunch time. Hell, everyone's golden boy Geno Atkins did precisely nothing in the playoffs, but nobody is burning him. I wonder why that is?[/QUOTE]


Dude are you seriosuly comparing Atkins to Dalton? You lost all credability right there. Nobody is talking **** about Atkins because he is the best DT in the league. Give me a break.

As for Flacco and his natural God given talent.......i challenge you to name me 3 QB's that have a better arm or can make that throw he did to Boldin on the run?

You keep talking about Dilfer well if you are satisfied with a QB like that or expect our D to be that good then so be it.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Dude are you seriosuly comparing Atkins to Dalton? You lost all credability right there. Nobody is talking **** about Atkins because he is the best DT in the league. Give me a break.

As for Flacco and his natural God given talent.......i challenge you to name me 3 QB's that have a better arm or can make that throw he did to Boldin on the run?

You keep talking about Dilfer well if you are satisfied with a QB like that or expect our D to be that good then so be it.

Because Atkins sure a hell played like the best DT in the game. Oh wait, except he still didn't do **** in a damned important game, much like the rest of the team. And where did I compare them? I asked why everyone was bagging on Dalton and the offense singularly while ignoring the fact that the defense didn't exactly play lights out either, using Atkins (as our best defensive player) as an example. If you want to take that as direct comparison, be my guest - it wouldn't be the first time you've made some ridiculous connection.

You mean that throw where he had time in the pocket, rolled out because it was finally collapsing, given Boldin plenty of time to get a ****-hair of seperation and bailed Flacco out by out-muscling the DB on the contested ball? That throw - hell I could make a throw like that if I had a receiver who could bail me out as consistently as Boldin does for Flacco.

Again, you're making ridiculous assumptions if you think I'd be happy with a QB like Dilfer, and if you're insinuating that Dalton is a QB on par with Dilfer, than you're more damaged in the head than I originally thought. Nobody want's a QB like Trent Dilfer - the Browns have had a dozen like him and look where they're at. Dalton has proven himself to be a upper-middle-of-the-road QB. He's better than what half the NFL has, at least - but all of his own fans want to do is point out and expand his flaws instead of realizing that, hey, we actually have a damn good QB.

[Night's Watch]

So every QB who has won a Superbowl has been athletic and strong arm?

Also you act as if Kaep and Flacco did it alone,

Flacco's Supporting cast > Dalton's
Kaep's Supporting cast > Dalton's

[WhoDey8509]

Andy dalton is a weak link of the team. Honestly I was never was an Andy basher and always gave him the benefit of doubt but after watching the entire season play out Andy is very adverage. He will win some, surprise a few but is not poise to be a top tier qb in the NFL and the one you can ride all the way with. I am not saying he is absolutely terrible but maybe like 17th or so in the league. I will personally tell you from sitting in row 2 for multiple games I did not care for his expressions and he was easily raddled and it showed all over his face. If he does not grow and mature tons over the off season the rookies of this year 2012 are going to blow right pass him....

[gardner30]

This is the best throw in the Super Bowl that I have seen in awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9no5Z5COy0

Eli has neither a rocket arm or freakish athletic ability.

[Housh]

When he can throw deep to the best WR in the game ill believe in him more

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by gardner30

This is the best throw in the Super Bowl that I have seen in awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9no5Z5COy0

Eli has neither a rocket arm or freakish athletic ability.

It's amazing what a receiver who can catch can do for a QB.

[gardner30]

Originally Posted by BigPapaKain

It's amazing what a receiver who can catch can do for a QB.

It was a very good catch as well but the throw was even better.

Did you see how Eli slide around in the pocket when pressure was coming from his left?

Just enough to get a clean throw.

I wonder more if Andy can do that than about his arm strength.