Do you really have faith that Dalton is the QB that leads us to a championship?

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You do realize they are not even allowed to blitz in the Pro Bowl right? Why would you even bring up such a joke of a game to try and prove a point. I mean yeah those DBs I am sure are going all out.

You can stuff the mediocrity comments they are tired and an ignorant way to try and make your opinion (which is all that it is) seem superior.

Lol...you don't need to get your little football feelings hurt...when you have skills like Luck and Green it does not matter what the DB was doing. You think for one second a NFL Pro Bowl cornerback wants to get toasted ever...let alone in the Pro Bowl...that is mediocre thinking at it best. Might be bed time for ya. Nite nite.

[Anderson_fan1988]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

Lol...you don't need to get your little football feelings hurt...when you have skills like Luck and Green it does not matter what the DB was doing. You think for one second a NFL Pro Bowl cornerback wants to get toasted ever...let alone in the Pro Bowl...that is mediocre thinking at it best. Might be bed time for ya. Nite nite.

Ok but Luck wasn't the one burning the DB? Luck threw a good pass, but we've seen Dalton make that throw too?

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Anderson_fan1988

Ok but Luck wasn't the one burning the DB? Luck threw a good pass, but we've seen Dalton make that throw too?

I would have to ask when...maybe there was one that I missed. I agree that it was not just Luck but the combo of Green and Luck two very talented players that are noticeably better than the best in the world. Dalton is not.
I do not remember a pass that precise ever thrown that distance, with that velocity by Dalton. If it has happened I would like to see it more frequently or as least as frequently as making Green catch the contested and under thrown balls.

[Anderson_fan1988]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

I would have to ask when...maybe there was one that I missed. I agree that it was not just Luck but the combo of Green and Luck two very talented players that are noticeably better than the best in the world. Dalton is not.
I do not remember a pass that precise ever thrown that distance, with that velocity by Dalton. If it has happened I would like to see it more frequently or as least as frequently as making Green catch the contested and under thrown balls.

[Atomic Orange]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Well I for one am still quite skeptical. I have gone back and forth with this question. After watching the superior arms of Flacco and Kaepernick in the superbowl it only makes me think of the initial reservations i had about Dalton. While his arm strength isn't awful there is still a lot to be desired. Besides that he doesn't have the athleticism to make plays out of the pocket like we have seen with guys like Rodgers, Kaep, RG3.

When Palmer was in his prime back in 06 i was confident that he was capable. Most considered him a top 4 QB in the league. He reminded me of the arm flacco has. Dalton on the other hand isn't nearly as good. When you watch Dalton he doesn't really impress you....he doesn't have a great arm, he isn't athletically gifted, and in my opinion he isn't clutch. Case in point was that over throw to Green. Look at the types of throws Kaep and Flacco were making in the playoffs and superbowl. Unfortunately Dalton is not even capable of some of those throws.

Look I like Dalton, I think he is a serviceable QB, but he is not the answer if we are serious about winning a SB. When you have players like Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, Brees, and young players like Kaep, Luck, RG3 coming into their own i think we need to seriously consider drafting a QB. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes it hurts to hear the truth.

Sports is about winning championships not being mediocre. High Risk High Reward is the way to go......just like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. They threw him out there after 8 weeks because they knew that Alex Smith would only take them so far......and it ended up panning out. I know Bengals fans are happy about making the playoffs every now and then but is it really that enjoyable to get knocked out in the 1st round every season? I want to see this team hold up the Lombardi.......and I have serious doubts that will ever happen with Dalton running the show.

Will......there you have it.

Flacco ****** until this year. CK has played like what 12 games??? Jesus these threads are getting old. Let's take a look at Gruden instead for awhile. I think he *****. Dalton is our QB. /of story

edit:
10 games. CK has started 10 games

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Anderson_fan1988

Nice post!!! Props to you for not only supporting your point but giving a fellow bengals fan a smile in February!
Now that pass is not in the same league as the one Luck threw...watch Green have to take a slow down step in Dalton's throw...then watch Luck throw a pass with far less arch, on the money with the ability to have Green speed up a stride and take it in untouched. That is the talent difference...that is the one degree difference between good and great. That pass for Andy is the exception not the rule and as I pointed out "in my opinion" it was good not great.
Some on this board get all bent out of shape if you do not think Andy Dalton is a great QB...I question if he is even good.
At 211 degrees water is hot at 212 it boils...Andy Dalton is hot water in a league that hot water is the price of entry. Again the real looser in this situation in AJ Green.

[Atomic Orange]

Originally Posted by shady

he's got room for improvement, but he's not the reason we didn't go further in the playoffs. Part of that was gresham's awful performance against houston. Part of it was gruden's inability to make the right adjustments. Part of it was a struggle oline. Part of it was that black hole in the middle of our defense.

Give andy enough time in the pocket and a real #2 wr, and we'll win the division outright next season and go far into the playoffs in 2013.

this

although Gruden still worries me

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

A simple answer to the OP question...no. If Dalton gets a Super Bowl ring with any team including the bengals it will be either carrying a clipboard or with a whistle around his neck.
All this Joe Montana comparison is truly laughable...lets compare him to a QB who played for the same organization...Kenny Anderson a similar player but AD can not hold a candle to Kenny and how many rings does Kenny Have. Dalton can not be put in the same league athletically as Booomer or Palmer...no rings. He is maybe the fith best QB after Cook and ahead of Kitna....no rings.

What do you mean by athletically? Dalton may not have Boomer or Palmer's arms, but he's definitely a better scrambler.

Also, the season Dalton just had was better than anything Palmer did outside of 2005-06, when Carson had 50 weapons at his disposal, as well as the best o-line in Bengals history. People slobbed all over CP because he was 6'5" with a good arm from a big school. For the vast majority of his career, he was no better than Andy (other than when he had the weapons and o-line...imagine that).

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

No I would not...I would say I take my hat off to him and applaude the ability to overcome inferior raw talent and an organization that is ran like a NAIA college program.

For all you believers in Andy..,did you see the clinic AJ Green had in the Pro Bowl?
Luck had one week with AJ and had the TALENT to hit him in stride on the sideline for a long TD...no fighting for the ball, no waiting on the ball, no jumping for the ball. Perfectly thrown and timed!
The Andy Dalton experiment will frustrate us as fans (those who are tied of mediocre results) but it will rob a truly TALANTED player of the chance of being the most prolific WR in NFL history. Why is that ok?

My goodness this is ridiculous. When Dalton has a clean pocket, he hits the deep throws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I168UQpqd1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf3A9tZVrWo

Now if the Center is sitting in Dalton's lap, it's kinda hard for him to get his feet set.

I watched 4 games with Luck this year, and he misses deep all the time. I guess you just watch highlights and the probowl.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Well I for one am still quite skeptical. I have gone back and forth with this question. After watching the superior arms of Flacco and Kaepernick in the superbowl it only makes me think of the initial reservations i had about Dalton. While his arm strength isn't awful there is still a lot to be desired. Besides that he doesn't have the athleticism to make plays out of the pocket like we have seen with guys like Rodgers, Kaep, RG3.

When Palmer was in his prime back in 06 i was confident that he was capable. Most considered him a top 4 QB in the league. He reminded me of the arm flacco has. Dalton on the other hand isn't nearly as good. When you watch Dalton he doesn't really impress you....he doesn't have a great arm, he isn't athletically gifted, and in my opinion he isn't clutch. Case in point was that over throw to Green. Look at the types of throws Kaep and Flacco were making in the playoffs and superbowl. Unfortunately Dalton is not even capable of some of those throws.

Look I like Dalton, I think he is a serviceable QB, but he is not the answer if we are serious about winning a SB. When you have players like Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, Brees, and young players like Kaep, Luck, RG3 coming into their own i think we need to seriously consider drafting a QB. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes it hurts to hear the truth.

Sports is about winning championships not being mediocre. High Risk High Reward is the way to go......just like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. They threw him out there after 8 weeks because they knew that Alex Smith would only take them so far......and it ended up panning out. I know Bengals fans are happy about making the playoffs every now and then but is it really that enjoyable to get knocked out in the 1st round every season? I want to see this team hold up the Lombardi.......and I have serious doubts that will ever happen with Dalton running the show.

Will......there you have it.

I have faith in Dalton. I'm just don't have faith in the offensive coaching staff. The way they prepare the offense is very spotty and inconsistent. They also don't adjust very well in times of injury, during the game and become predictable a majority of the time. They don't have the balls to bench a player if he is playing cold for the day or to test out their superstar WR in double coverage until it is too late. Get a coach who wants to play to win instead of play not to lose and you will see Dalton shine.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

He is ranked 22nd in QBR http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr ........the ESPN statistic. I do give you props for going through each game and attempting to justify his inferior play. We can all manipulate stats and figure out stuff in games to justify our point but in the end we can all acknowledge these few points.

Andy Dalton does nothing exceptionally well.

Andy Dalton has played like complete and utter crap in the 2 most important games of his career.

Andy Dalton right now is an average QB at best with mediocre physical talent.

If these things look promising to you then i don't care to argue.

You're failure to acknowledge his strong points only goes to prove that all you're doing at this point is trying to make an argument out of nothing.

If Dalton does nothing well, than neither does Flacco, or Luck, or RG3, or any other QB Dalton had beat in any statistical standing.

Andy Dalton, AJ Green, the entire offensive line, the back 7, Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, etc. etc. etc.. The entire team played like crap the last two playoff games, but you're just crucifying one person, and it's not even the right person to be crucifying.

Average QB's don't put up the 7th most TD's in the NFL. Average QB's don't lead their teams to back to back playoff berths. Average QB's don't post winning records as a starter.

Things DO look promising right now. When was the last time we had a QB that lead the Bengals to winning seasons both of his first 2 years? When was the last time we had a QB make it to the playoffs in back-to-back years? When was the last a QB put up 20+ TDs in his first 2 years? Hate on the kid all you want, but at this point you're just being a blind hater.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Yes, I am.

Now, with that being said, it takes a great supporting cast for an offense to be successful. If quarterback play alone dictated the outcome of a football game, Dan Marino would have multiple Super Bowl rings and so would another guy few people remember: Jim Hart of the then-St. Louis Cardinals. If Jim had any talent around him that offense would have been totally sick.

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

What do you mean by athletically? Dalton may not have Boomer or Palmer's arms, but he's definitely a better scrambler.

Also, the season Dalton just had was better than anything Palmer did outside of 2005-06, when Carson had 50 weapons at his disposal, as well as the best o-line in Bengals history. People slobbed all over CP because he was 6'5" with a good arm from a big school. For the vast majority of his career, he was no better than Andy (other than when he had the weapons and o-line...imagine that).





My goodness this is ridiculous. When Dalton has a clean pocket, he hits the deep throws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I168UQpqd1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf3A9tZVrWo

Now if the Center is sitting in Dalton's lap, it's kinda hard for him to get his feet set.

I watched 4 games with Luck this year, and he misses deep all the time. I guess you just watch highlights and the probowl.

So all these weapons that Palmer had...which one of the went on to prove that they had this "weapon" type ability?
Houch...Owens...Shipley...Ocho...Simpson...Coles.. .Benson...Kelly...Coats....Perry...irons...defense ****** (had a lot of turnovers one year)
You post is revisionist history...those teams ****** and the Talent of the QB made them competitive. Dalton does not bring the team down a level but he does not lift it up either. He is definitely not the best player on offense...there was no doubt who the best Player on the team was when the QB was #9...but he could not get the job done either. Back to the OP's question...if a more talented QB could not do it I am not buying Dalton can

[Hammerthis]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

I don't see how people can come to the conclusion of YES. If you were NOT a Bengals fan and you watched Andy Dalton would you think "Yea this guy is a Superbowl caliber QB"

A lot of people on this board went so far overboard hyping Andy they can't turn back. Better to be strong and wrong then flip flop for the truth.

[Hammerthis]

Originally Posted by BigPapaKain

Because Atkins sure a hell played like the best DT in the game. Oh wait, except he still didn't do **** in a damned important game, much like the rest of the team. And where did I compare them? I asked why everyone was bagging on Dalton and the offense singularly while ignoring the fact that the defense didn't exactly play lights out either, using Atkins (as our best defensive player) as an example. If you want to take that as direct comparison, be my guest - it wouldn't be the first time you've made some ridiculous connection.You mean that throw where he had time in the pocket, rolled out because it was finally collapsing, given Boldin plenty of time to get a ****-hair of seperation and bailed Flacco out by out-muscling the DB on the contested ball? That throw - hell I could make a throw like that if I had a receiver who could bail me out as consistently as Boldin does for Flacco.Again, you're making ridiculous assumptions if you think I'd be happy with a QB like Dilfer, and if you're insinuating that Dalton is a QB on par with Dilfer, than you're more damaged in the head than I originally thought. Nobody want's a QB like Trent Dilfer - the Browns have had a dozen like him and look where they're at. Dalton has proven himself to be a upper-middle-of-the-road QB. He's better than what half the NFL has, at least - but all of his own fans want to do flaws instead of realizing that, hey, we actually have a damn good QB.

No logic in you're opinions child.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

So all these weapons that Palmer had...which one of the went on to prove that they had this "weapon" type ability?
Houch...Owens...Shipley...Ocho...Simpson...Coles.. .Benson...Kelly...Coats....Perry...irons...defense ****** (had a lot of turnovers one year)
You post is revisionist history...those teams ****** and the Talent of the QB made them competitive. Dalton does not bring the team down a level but he does not lift it up either. He is definitely not the best player on offense...there was no doubt who the best Player on the team was when the QB was #9...but he could not get the job done either. Back to the OP's question...if a more talented QB could not do it I am not buying Dalton can

Yeah, definitely no doubt...

The years I mentioned (2005-2006) were Palmer's only great years, and he had a top 5 WR (Chad Johnson), an elite possession WR (Houshmandzadeh), a great deep WR (Henry), an outstanding run game (Rudi), and one of the best o-lines in Bengals history.

When we started losing those guys and replacing them with guys like Coles, Ghiaciuc, Livings, Coats, Benson, etc, that's when Carson fell off. Like I said, 2005-06 were the only years that bested what Andy did in 2012, and Carson had phenomenal talent around him back then. There is no denying that.

[McC]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

So all these weapons that Palmer had...which one of the went on to prove that they had this "weapon" type ability?
Houch...Owens...Shipley...Ocho...Simpson...Coles.. .Benson...Kelly...Coats....Perry...irons...defense ****** (had a lot of turnovers one year)
You post is revisionist history...those teams ****** and the Talent of the QB made them competitive. Dalton does not bring the team down a level but he does not lift it up either. He is definitely not the best player on offense...there was no doubt who the best Player on the team was when the QB was #9...but he could not get the job done either. Back to the OP's question...if a more talented QB could not do it I am not buying Dalton can

You act like a QB alone wins SB's when so many different kinds of teams have won it with all different kinds of QB's.

Then you use the PB to pimp Andrew Luck. While Luck did a lot of good things, the ones you saw on Sportcenter, didn't also lead the league in picks and complete just over 50% of his passes? He was also the number one pick in the draft, one of the most heralded prospects to come out of college football in about a decade.

Andy was a second rounder. He got enough out of a less than starstudded offense to make the playoffs his first two years. He folded in the playoff game.

Hate him as much as you want, but he's our guy and you might as well face it. We'll have this conversation in a year and see how willing you might be to admit it if you end up wrong.

Hate to break it to you, but you have a couple more years of being pizzy to go.

[Anderson_fan1988]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Yeah, definitely no doubt...

The years I mentioned (2005-2006) were Palmer's only great years, and he had a top 5 WR (Chad Johnson), an elite possession WR (Houshmandzadeh), a great deep WR (Henry), an outstanding run game (Rudi), and one of the best o-lines in Bengals history.

When we started losing those guys and replacing them with guys like Coles, Ghiaciuc, Livings, Coats, Benson, etc, that's when Carson fell off. Like I said, 2005-06 were the only years that bested what Andy did in 2012, and Carson had phenomenal talent around him back then. There is no denying that.

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Yeah, definitely no doubt...

The years I mentioned (2005-2006) were Palmer's only great years, and he had a top 5 WR (Chad Johnson), an elite possession WR (Houshmandzadeh), a great deep WR (Henry), an outstanding run game (Rudi), and one of the best o-lines in Bengals history.

When we started losing those guys and replacing them with guys like Coles, Ghiaciuc, Livings, Coats, Benson, etc, that's when Carson fell off. Like I said, 2005-06 were the only years that bested what Andy did in 2012, and Carson had phenomenal talent around him back then. There is no denying that.

Palmer made those played not the other way around. Please show me where your top players proved they could crack the starting line up without Palmer. Your in deep and probably better to quit digging the hole.
The one stat Dalton lovers like to quote is where he ranks within his first two years in touchdowns...a twisted stat given less that 10% of NFL QB started there rookie year...he should be in the top 10 there is like on 6...lol. If you look at that stat in the first two years the QB started it is a bit more impressive...he ranks 4th right behind CP and slightly ahead of Boomer in a totally different era. Give it up bro.

[havean]

[Anderson_fan1988]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

Palmer made those played not the other way around. Please show me where your top players proved they could crack the starting line up without Palmer. Your in deep and probably better to quit digging the hole.
The one stat Dalton lovers like to quote is where he ranks within his first two years in touchdowns...a twisted stat given less that 10% of NFL QB started there rookie year...he should be in the top 10 there is like on 6...lol. If you look at that stat in the first two years the QB started it is a bit more impressive...he ranks 4th right behind CP and slightly ahead of Boomer in a totally different era. Give it up bro.

So then why couldn't palmer make Cadwell or Coles? Also, how exactly did Carson Palmer make Chad Johnson when he was already a great player in 2003? You know...when Jon Kitna was his QB? (No hate on Kitna though lol)

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by Hammerthis

No logic in you're opinions child.

No correct grammar in your nonsensical posts, simpleton. If you're trying to make a point, I suggest you do it in a more eloquent manner, unless you want to come off as some half-witted troll.

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Anderson_fan1988

So then why couldn't palmer make Cadwell or Coles? Also, how exactly did Carson Palmer make Chad Johnson when he was already a great player in 2003? You know...when Jon Kitna was his QB? (No hate on Kitna though lol)

Chad was good...with #9 was elevated to great without #9 out of the league. The other two bums went from bad to average.

[bradfritz21]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

I don't see how people can come to the conclusion of YES. If you were NOT a Bengals fan and you watched Andy Dalton would you think "Yea this guy is a Superbowl caliber QB"

When has Andy had the chance to make any plays that would lead you on to the conclusion of no?

His arm strength has improved a great deal since his rookie year, so who's to say it won't improve more? Also, he had the strength to make every throw that he needed to.

Dalton hasn't been asked to be the super-hero at quarterback, he's just been asked to do his job, which he has, and that can win us any game if the rest of the team does its job, too.

If Gresham catches that pass on our opening drive of the playoff game, who's to say that we don't score or that it doesn't lead to better things that cause us to win?

Yes, I have faith in Dalton.

[Atomic Orange]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

Chad was good...with #9 was elevated to great without #9 out of the league. The other two bums went from bad to average.

Chad lost his head to celebrity. Chad made Housh better by being double teamed all the time. They were a great combo. It worked.

What is #9 doing these days? He is now #3 and about to be replaced in Oakland because the dude is a loser.

[fredtoast]

I am sure someone has already said this, but instead of comparing Andy to elite QBs compare him to what all these elite QBs did in their first two seasons.

Based on wher he is in his career Andy is an elite QB and completely capable of leading us to a championship.