Do you really have faith that Dalton is the QB that leads us to a championship?

[Nately120]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

As others have mentioned with the Joe Montana references, it doesn't always take the strongest arm, or the fastest legs, but having a sharp and resourceful mind. Andy has a good head on his shoulders, enough athleticism to get the job done, and an arm that can make the throws.

The most troubling thing that I saw from Andy this season was an INT per pass ratio that exceeded the turnover-machine-turned-Raider we don't miss. I'm not sure if Dalton is as safe and secure as we want to make him out to be, is all...at least not at the moment.

[Carolinabengalfanguy]

Originally Posted by Atomic Orange

Chad lost his head to celebrity. Chad made Housh better by being double teamed all the time. They were a great combo. It worked.

What is #9 doing these days? He is now #3 and about to be replaced in Oakland because the dude is a loser.

Palmer isn't a loser, well I guess that depends on what you mean. He is a loser in the fact that he hasn't won much in the NFL, but the guy is still a strong starting caliber QB. Look what he did this year with the crap around him in Oakland. Is he a franchise QB? Not since 2005, but the guy is capable of throwing 30 TD's albeit he's going to throw 15-20 interceptions to go along with them. He's a veteran gunslinger now. I don't think he can win games on his own, but on a good team he could excel and heck maybe even lead them to playoff victories.

He's a jerk for leaving the way that he did, but the guy can still play some decent football and I for one would enjoy seeing him succeed. I'd like to see Oakland cut him just to see who would pick him up and what they could do with him.

The New York Jets, Cleveland Browns, Kansas City Chiefs, Jacksonville Jaguars, Tennessee Titans, and Arizona Cardinals could all use a starting QB.

Heck imagine what he could do if Arizona got him and put some halfway decent linemen to block for him.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

1. Palmer made those played not the other way around. Please show me where your top players proved they could crack the starting line up without Palmer. Your in deep and probably better to quit digging the hole.
The one stat Dalton lovers like to quote is where he ranks within his first two years in touchdowns...a twisted stat given less that 10% of NFL QB started there rookie year...he should be in the top 10 there is like on 6...lol. 2. If you look at that stat in the first two years the QB started it is a bit more impressive...he ranks 4th right behind CP and slightly ahead of Boomer in a totally different era. Give it up bro.

1. Chad Johnson

2002- 69-1166-5 (with Frerotte and Jon Kitna)
2003- 90-1355-10 (named all-pro...with Jon Kitna)

TJ Housh

Was stuck behind Peter Warrick before Palmer was named starter, but he did have 92 catches in 2008 with mostly Fitzpatrick at QB. He was also pretty good in Seattle with Hasselbeck.

Rudi proved himself in 2003 while Kitna was the starter, and the o-line was great with or without CP. You got nothin.

2. As for the most TDs by a Bengals QB in their first full seasons as starter...

Jeff Blake: 52
Boomer: 51
Carson Palmer: 50
Andy Dalton: 47
Kenny: 25

Of course, All these guys got to mostly sit around and learn for at least a year. Not really fair to compare them for that reason, imo. Even so, Andy is right up there with the best QBs in Bengals history. Even though he started as a rookie with no offseason.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by Nately120

The most troubling thing that I saw from Andy this season was an INT per pass ratio that exceeded the turnover-machine-turned-Raider we don't miss. I'm not sure if Dalton is as safe and secure as we want to make him out to be, is all...at least not at the moment.

Originally Posted by fredtoast

I am sure someone has already said this, but instead of comparing Andy to elite QBs compare him to what all these elite QBs did in their first two seasons.

Based on wher he is in his career Andy is an elite QB and completely capable of leading us to a championship.

In their first two seasons as starters:

Andy Dalton......29 ints.....1044 att....2.8%
P. Manning........43 ints.....1108 att....3.9%
Drew Brees.......31 ints..... 882 att.....3.5%
E. Manning........35 ints.....1097 att....3.2%
Tom Brady........26 ints.....1014 att....2.6%
Roethlisberger..20 ints......563 att....3.6%
Matt Ryan..........25 ints......885 att....2.8%

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

[

As for Flacco and his natural God given talent.......i challenge you to name me 3 QB's that have a better arm or can make that throw he did to Boldin on the run?

stats from this season

Dalton....62.3 %......3669 yds....27 td....87.4 rating
Flacco....59.7 %.....3817 yds....22 td.....87.7 rating

So there is obviously more to being a good passer than just a cannon arm.

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Atomic Orange

Chad lost his head to celebrity. Chad made Housh better by being double teamed all the time. They were a great combo. It worked.

What is #9 doing these days? He is now #3 and about to be replaced in Oakland because the dude is a loser.

This thread was about opinions on Dalton's ability to lead the team to the promise land...it was not about your fantasy world of make believe facts.

[Atomic Orange]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

This thread was about opinions on Dalton's ability to lead the team to the promise land...it was not about your fantasy world of make believe facts.

Fair enough. Read the two posts above yours then.

[rhinocero23]

Originally Posted by Atomic Orange

Fair enough. Read the two posts above yours then.

Hey I would love to have my opinion proven wrong...all stats aside I just do not see a QB that if I were not a die hard bengals fan I would be impressed with.

[TheLeonardLeap]

Apologize in advance for the vertically long post. I am a sucker for properly formatting for visual ease.

Joe Flacco's first two seasons:
-32 Starts
-61.7% Completion
-6,584 Yards
-35 TDs
-24 INTs
-19 Fumbles (4 Lost)

Eli Manning's first two seasons:
-23 Starts
-51.6% Completion
-4,805 Yards
-30 TDs
-28 INTs
-11 Fumbles (3 Lost)

Aaron Rodgers' first two seasons:
-0 Starts
-48.3% Completion
-111 Yards
-0 TDs
-1 INT
-3 Fumbles (3 Lost)

Tom Brady's first two seasons:
-14 Starts
-63.7% Completion
-2,849 Yards
-18 TDs
-12 INTs
-12 Fumbles (3 Lost)

Ben Roethlisberger's first two seasons:
-25 Starts
-64.6% Completion
-5,006 Yards
-34 TDs
-20 INTs
-4 Fumbles (3 Lost)

Drew Brees' first two seasons:
-16 Starts
-60.5% Completion
-3,505 Yards
-18 TDs
-16 INTs
-4 Fumbles (0 Lost)

Peyton Manning's first two seasons:
-32 Starts
-59.3% Completion
-7,874 Yards
-52 TDs
-43 INTs
-9 Fumbles (4 Lost)

Those are pretty much all recent Super Bowl winning QBs I thought up off the top of my head.... now here's Dalton.

Andy Dalton's first two seasons:
-32 Starts
-60.2% Completion
-7,067 Yards
-47 TDs
-29 INTs
-8 Fumbles (6 Lost)

I'm sorry, but I look at Dalton's numbers the first two years against recent Super Bowl winning QB's numbers their first two years.. and I am pretty damn excited about the potential of this kid. From a sheer statistical standpoint, he has outperformed all the recent Super Bowl winners compared to when they were at that point in their career. My favorite Dalton stat is he has NEVER thrown a redzone INT.... ever. He's something like 20 TDs/0 INTs in the redzone I believe. People are getting far too involved in comparing Andy Dalton now to other QBs now.. when they need to compare Andy Dalton now to other QBs then. The guy has only played two seasons, he's 25.

[Atomic Orange]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

Hey I would love to have my opinion proven wrong...all stats aside I just do not see a QB that if I were not a die hard bengals fan I would be impressed with.

.Do you watch other QB's as often and as thoroughly as Dalton? Do you see every snap every quarterback takes in every game? I agree he didn't look good the second half of the season, but i put most of that on Gruden's game plan, weak O'line play,(the pocket collapsed often,he started getting happy feet like any quarterback would, he didn't adjust, that part was on him he needs to step up)..and lack of #2.

Others want to blame the running game as well, but BJGE was running pretty good when he got the ball.

I'm not looking to change your mind on Dalton and I respect and understand your concerns. I just think we will all be happier if we give the issue some more time before throwing him under the bus.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

Hey I would love to have my opinion proven wrong...all stats aside I just do not see a QB that if I were not a die hard bengals fan I would be impressed with.

Eye doctor could be a good recommendation.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by rhinocero23

Nice post!!! Props to you for not only supporting your point but giving a fellow bengals fan a smile in February!
Now that pass is not in the same league as the one Luck threw...watch Green have to take a slow down step in Dalton's throw...then watch Luck throw a pass with far less arch, on the money with the ability to have Green speed up a stride and take it in untouched. That is the talent difference...that is the one degree difference between good and great. That pass for Andy is the exception not the rule and as I pointed out "in my opinion" it was good not great.
Some on this board get all bent out of shape if you do not think Andy Dalton is a great QB...I question if he is even good.
At 211 degrees water is hot at 212 it boils...Andy Dalton is hot water in a league that hot water is the price of entry. Again the real looser in this situation in AJ Green.

Even with video evidence you will not admit it. That ball is perfectly thrown but I do love the imaginary Green slow down defense.

[Original Bengal fan]

Although Carson had Chad I do not believe he was as good as AJ. Palmer would not miss on those long passes that Dalton constantly misses look at the td passes in the pro bowl to AJ. Dalton does not have the fast ball or the long ball as the other young QB in this league. We will know this season if he is the guy we hoped he would be but even my wife does not think he is that good. I believe AJ bails him out a lot and having the defense we have helps him also with good field position. I think Dalton is average and AJ is great which makes daltons numbers better. For all these comparisons with other qbs it is more than just stats a closer look at the players around them has something to do with it.

[bengalfan74]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

In answer to the thread title ......Absolutely have faith and confidence that Dalton can lead this team to a Superbowl victory. I actually find all the doubt and questioning quite comical as well as nitpicky. I think many on these boards just are not happy without something to groan and whine about and when they do not have something concrete then they strive to fabricate things.

Facts are that he played very well as a rookie. He improved from his rookie season to his second season. It is generally around a third season that you really see the game slow down for young QBs. He as performed in his first two seasons at the caliber of guys like Manning and Marino.

Does he have things to work on? Yep sure does just like every single other player in the NFL. Even our stud WR Mr.Green has area for improvement. He needs to work harder at defeating double teams. He needs to continue to become more consistent with his hands. He needs to learn to work better when plays breakdown and help his QB out in those situations. However, you sure do not see anyone doubting or questioning him.

QBs get too much credit for good and too much criticism for bad. Dalton is going to be just fine. I am sure there was plenty of question marks in the early years of a young QB from little Augustana College.

Who are you ? And what did you do with OSUfan ?

Seriously, nice post !

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Atomic Orange

.Do you watch other QB's as often and as thoroughly as Dalton? Do you see every snap every quarterback takes in every game? I agree he didn't look good the second half of the season, but i put most of that on Gruden's game plan, weak O'line play,(the pocket collapsed often,he started getting happy feet like any quarterback would, he didn't adjust, that part was on him he needs to step up)..and lack of #2.

Others want to blame the running game as well, but BJGE was running pretty good when he got the ball.

I'm not looking to change your mind on Dalton and I respect and understand your concerns. I just think we will all be happier if we give the issue some more time before throwing him under the bus.

I for one believe the jury is out on our QB until he proves he is the man.The one thing that really bothers me if if he is not the man, the locker room will soon point this out.Unless he captures the teams TRUST in him and I mean right now, we are in big trouble.I feel he wants to be the leader, but I question whether he has those intangbles like other great qbs.Only time will tell us what we want to see.However, he has been very quiet since end of season, which is how he is. He seems to not like the attention from the media and only does appearances when he has to.I would really feel better if he were to come out and say something to the fans, like how he stunk and all that and show some leadership to the players and the fans.Have you noticed none of the players have said anything about their qb, good or bad.I know Jay Gruden said after the season that andy had to get better.No kidding!!!Lets all hope he does, because he has to be the MAN this year or we go Nowhere.

[bengalfan74]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

stats from this season

Dalton....62.3 %......3669 yds....27 td....87.4 rating
Flacco....59.7 %.....3817 yds....22 td.....87.7 rating

So there is obviously more to being a good passer than just a cannon arm.

Don't bust their bubble by telling them about the 50 cannon armed QB's that have failed Fred. Not that Flacco has, but their are many others. Klingler anyone ?

[CrowFoot]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

...

Look I like Dalton, I think he is a serviceable QB, but he is not the answer if we are serious about winning a SB. When you have players like Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, Brees, and young players like Kaep, Luck, RG3 coming into their own i think we need to seriously consider drafting a QB. It may not be what you want to hear but sometimes it hurts to hear the truth.

...

So now Flacco is obvious talent like Manning and Brady? Certainly no one was saying that a month ago. Like others have said...Dalton has had a pretty darn good first two years.

Meanwhile, for fun, I googled "Flacco is not the answer" (in quotes): about 9,500 results.

[umkubas]

The correct question is:

Can the Cincinnati Bengals defeat the Miami Dolphins, Minnesota Vikings, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, the Baltimore Ravens (once) and the Piitsburgh Steelers (once) in the 2013 National Football League schedule.

That would give the Cincinnati Bengals a 11-6 schedule outcome [I have posted that they will win against the Buffalo Bills, New York Jets, Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns (twice) in the 2013 National Football League schedule]

The next question to be answered is can the Cincinnati Bengals win the 2014 American Football Conference Wild Card game.

The Cincinnati Bengals are a team. Quarterback Dalton does play a major role in the determination of the outcome of the 2013 National Football League schedule but the defense will also play a major role in the outcome.

From quarterback Dalton's sample size of two consectutive wild card losses, one would draw from the outcomes of these games that quarterback Dalton has none of the qualities that wild card game, divsional game, or conference championship game winners display.

Faith belongs in the realm of religion. The National Football League is a business and a sport.

[Who Dey Time]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

In answer to the thread title ......Absolutely have faith and confidence that Dalton can lead this team to a Superbowl victory. I actually find all the doubt and questioning quite comical as well as nitpicky. I think many on these boards just are not happy without something to groan and whine about and when they do not have something concrete then they strive to fabricate things.

Facts are that he played very well as a rookie. He improved from his rookie season to his second season. It is generally around a third season that you really see the game slow down for young QBs. He as performed in his first two seasons at the caliber of guys like Manning and Marino.

Does he have things to work on? Yep sure does just like every single other player in the NFL. Even our stud WR Mr.Green has area for improvement. He needs to work harder at defeating double teams. He needs to continue to become more consistent with his hands. He needs to learn to work better when plays breakdown and help his QB out in those situations. However, you sure do not see anyone doubting or questioning him.

QBs get too much credit for good and too much criticism for bad. Dalton is going to be just fine. I am sure there was plenty of question marks in the early years of a young QB from little Augustana College.

Can't be said any better than this right here. A great response to an otherwise stupid question.

[XenoMorph]

Yes...

He hasnt shown any regression in his second year just a lack of weapons hes still a smart and accurate QB. (yes he has missed some passes name 1 QB that hasnt and ill call you a liar.) His deep ball will get better with his footwork. He has proven to have plenty of arm strenght for this offense.

[BengalRugby]

I have faith in Dalton helping the Bengals deep into the playoffs, lead by the team's defense.


Dalton didn't take this team anywhere, the defense was the lead dog. Andy is turning into a solid QB, but is still making bad reads, locking on to receivers, and getting pressured too often due to a poor running game and weak middle o-line. Uncreative playcalling doesn't help either.



I have faith in Dalton and would like him to remain the Bengals QB. But I do not have faith in him taking over a game or carrying the Bengals. Thankfully, Zimmer and the defense are good enough to make those two things unnecessary most of the time.

[CornerBlitz]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

I have faith in Dalton helping the Bengals deep into the playoffs, lead by the team's defense.


Dalton didn't take this team anywhere, the defense was the lead dog. Andy is turning into a solid QB, but is still making bad reads, locking on to receivers, and getting pressured too often due to a poor running game and weak middle o-line. Uncreative playcalling doesn't help either.



I have faith in Dalton and would like him to remain the Bengals QB. But I do not have faith in him taking over a game or carrying the Bengals. Thankfully, Zimmer and the defense are good enough to make those two things unnecessary most of the time.

Best post by far.......besides mine :)

The bottom line is that if we ever want to compete for a superbowl with Dalton at QB we need one of the greatest defenses of all time, and a superior running game.

Lets hope Zimmer can provide that.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by umkubas

From quarterback Dalton's sample size of two consectutive wild card losses, one would draw from the outcomes of these games that quarterback Dalton has none of the qualities that wild card game, divsional game, or conference championship game winners display.

Faith belongs in the realm of religion..

I don't know why I am even bothering but here goes....

Playoff record in first two seasons as a starter.

Terry Bradshaw.........0-0
Drew Brees...............0-0
John Elway................0-2
Eli Manning................0-1
P. Manning.................0-1
Aaron Rodgers...........0-1
Steve Young...............0-0

So your "reality" proves that none of these QBs have what it takes to win a single playoff game.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

The bottom line is that if we ever want to compete for a superbowl with Dalton at QB we need one of the greatest defenses of all time, and a superior running game.

Oh really. Then explain these numbers


Dalton....62.3 %......3669 yds....27 td....87.4 rating
Flacco....59.7 %.....3817 yds....22 td.....87.7 rating

Yet Flacco won the Super Bowl with a below average (17th ranked) defense that gave up 468 yards and 31 points in the Super Bowl.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by bengalfan74

Don't bust their bubble by telling them about the 50 cannon armed QB's that have failed Fred. Not that Flacco has, but their are many others. Klingler anyone ?

Akili Smith was an outstanding athlete with a strong arm. Maybe we should give him a call?