A wishful thinking draft

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by getmused

I gotta think cincy could do better if we're dreaming? I'm a B Jones fan, hell was calling for him last yr. But value and need trump it for me. Robinson looked fine and if needed can at least give cincy an idea "how good" the oline is with young RB's. If Robinson looks bad draft a center next yr. I just think Robinson will suprise a few. I was ironically calling for cincy to draft Robinson late b/c of his versatility like Jones. (yes I know Jones yes upgrade) Just like this draft better.

1. ogletree LB
2. Rhodes CB
2. Elam S
3. gillislee RB
4. devin Taylor DE
5. M. williams TE
6. Lattimore RB

ufa matheiu CB/S/KR

I don't think cincy has a 7th rounder

Not a fan of Ogletree see my earlier responses as to why I would pass on him as a first round prospect. Minter I feel is a better LBer and as I have said in earlier responses Warmack is BPA over Minter.

Not a fan of ignoring a weakness until next year when it comes to the OLine. I would rather ignore LBer over OLine. We did have a top 10 unit on Defense and we would still have one next year if we resigned every player (even Rey). Our Offense was hurting. Yes Dalton did hold onto the ball but I also seen where the line didn't protect him as well or he was rushed. Rhodes is an interesting option but I actually feel we are good at CB, we did just draft Kirkpatrick and Hall was signed an extension. Jones seems to like it here. We signed Allen last year so it isn't a need either. Not to mention Rhodes is inconsistent.

Again look at my reasoning for not taking any RB other than Lattimore. Lattimore had the same doctor that AP had is has stated that he is on track to be able to start opening day. A healthy Lattimore is better than any RB in the draft. Michael is also a better RB than the ones that are on board to be taken earlier.

[Bengals Fan For Life!]

Love it. Sucker for the O-Line. Would need to address WR in FA. It would be a dominate line for years to come - young guys - only Whit has substantial miles. If this draft worked out this way WR would hardly need to be addressed...even Whalen would be able to get open with all the time Dalton would have.

[crazymad]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

Don't discount Maybin just yet. Some players aren't used properly or a light needs to come on before becoming a quality player. Maybin is a pass rush specialist, but more of a SAM LBer. I don't know about being comfortable with him as a starter but I would fill the same with any LBer from the draft.

Me personally, I would go into TC with Burfict, Maybin, Moch, Howard, Curry, Lemur, Collins and a few others, and let the best one get the job. It also depends on where I put Burfict. He looks a bit lost in coverage sometimes but I think he could handle MIKE.

Safety is so hit or miss that I am not that sold on the spot. Elam could fall, no one knows what the combine and pro days will yield or what a team will look for. He didn't do so well in the Senior Bowl but Robert Lester could be an option if Elam isn't there.

I understand the hesitancy of taking a guy like Lattimore. As I had posted in another thread. It depends on the upside versus the downside. The Bengals are at a position where just staying with BJGE will not hurt us. We have proven that we can win with BJGE. Lattimore is the type of back that can and will take over games if he is healthy. Now since the draft is a gamble anyway (Lacy, Bernard, Randle could all bust by being injured or not being able to transition well to the NFL), might as well gamble big. If Lattimore comes in healthy and productive, we now have a guy that can punish defenses for keying in on Green. Now for insurance Christine Michael should also be picked up. Again he could bust, and so could Lattimore, which leaves us with BJGE who we can win with. However if he doesn't then he would be another dominating back. Now if Lattimore and Michael both tear it up, we will be set at RB for the next few years.

Lattimore AND Michael if healthy are better than just drafting Lacy or Benard or Randle.

i seriously doubt they take 2 rb's my guess is bernard at 2a, lacy isnt a top flight runner and i am unimpressed with what he's shown running behind the best line in college football and he doesnt have the kind of speed we will be looking for. as for maybin, i have already counted him out, he will not make this team, i'd rather resign mualaga than start maybin anywhere, IMO moch has to work his *** off just to make this team to

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by crazymad

i seriously doubt they take 2 rb's my guess is bernard at 2a, lacy isnt a top flight runner and i am unimpressed with what he's shown running behind the best line in college football and he doesnt have the kind of speed we will be looking for. as for maybin, i have already counted him out, he will not make this team, i'd rather resign mualaga than start maybin anywhere, IMO moch has to work his *** off just to make this team to

Not taking these players is why I called this my Wishful thinking draft. Now if I said who I think the Bengals will pick draft then I wouldn't have these 2 RBs or even OLinemen. Last year the Bengals shocked me with taking a OG in the 1st round. Don't expect that to happen again, nor do I think we go OG then OC.

I wouldn't hate it but it isn't my ideal draft:

1. LBer: Olgetree or Te'o will probably be the pick here. We could grab a S, though the team doesn't have a history of this, Vaccaro or Elam, which I feel is a bit high for either player but hey I don't make the calls. Best case for me is to trade back for an extra 3rd rounder.

2a. RB: Bernard or Lacy could be the pick. Or if we don't snag a S in the 1st this is where we grab Elam. A long shot pick would be Okafor or Ansah if either of these guys happen to fall.

2b. What we don't grab at 2a. will be the pick here. S or RB if Bernard or Lacy are gone look for guys like Randle or Gillislee a surprise pick would be Franklin who is a Ray Rice type back with his speed and receiving ability Barner has some speed as well and may entice over the others. As for S if Elam is gone then look for Rambo, Lester, McDonald, or Reid.

3. This would be where the Bengals start drafting for depth, LBer. Hodges, Collins or Greene, maybe even grab Thomas. If not LBer then OLine and DJ Fluker could be brought in to groom behind Smith or even to replace him some other OLine guys could be Frederick or Abushi. This pick is when people who were expected to go in the 1st round but somehow fell is picked up. Now if we traded back we might have an extra 3rd rounder and try to get both. Or if we somehow skipped out on RB, which I doubt, they may use the extra 3rd to take a chance on Lattimore which would make people breath a little easier.

The rest of the draft will be for whoever happens to fall to give us depth. Look for another WR and TE at some point. CB is another staple for a late round pick up.

The reason I am not sold on this draft, is because no one has separated themselves, which means either a: They are all good or great players or b. they are all mediocre. I don't see a huge difference from the Safety or RB position. To me Elam is just as good as Vaccaro, and Lacy is just as good as Bernard, nothing WOW out of any of them and that is with them healthy. Now I do see Lattimore as a WOW player if he is healthy and since we know we can win with BJGE then RB is a spot that we can gamble a bit on, so why not gamble big.

LBers in this draft that I actually like are Collins, Hodges, Greene and even Thomas. I actually think they are better than Olgetree, they also play a bit better in schemes and look to be easily coach-able. Olgetree seems to like to free lance and is hit or miss sometimes. Yes he has a WOW play one minute then the next it is "What are you doing?" Not a fan of that type of inconsistency.

Again the OP was a wishful thinking draft for me. Our Offense wasn't as good as the Defense and I like the idea of protecting Dalton by grabbing a top flight OG if available and Warmack is the best in the draft. OC and Jones is the best in the draft. RBs who have WOW if the gamble pays out over ones who will be productive but not WOW even though they are healthy.

[crazymad]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

Not taking these players is why I called this my Wishful thinking draft. Now if I said who I think the Bengals will pick draft then I wouldn't have these 2 RBs or even OLinemen. Last year the Bengals shocked me with taking a OG in the 1st round. Don't expect that to happen again, nor do I think we go OG then OC.

I wouldn't hate it but it isn't my ideal draft:

1. LBer: Olgetree or Te'o will probably be the pick here. We could grab a S, though the team doesn't have a history of this, Vaccaro or Elam, which I feel is a bit high for either player but hey I don't make the calls. Best case for me is to trade back for an extra 3rd rounder.

2a. RB: Bernard or Lacy could be the pick. Or if we don't snag a S in the 1st this is where we grab Elam. A long shot pick would be Okafor or Ansah if either of these guys happen to fall.

2b. What we don't grab at 2a. will be the pick here. S or RB if Bernard or Lacy are gone look for guys like Randle or Gillislee a surprise pick would be Franklin who is a Ray Rice type back with his speed and receiving ability Barner has some speed as well and may entice over the others. As for S if Elam is gone then look for Rambo, Lester, McDonald, or Reid.

3. This would be where the Bengals start drafting for depth, LBer. Hodges, Collins or Greene, maybe even grab Thomas. If not LBer then OLine and DJ Fluker could be brought in to groom behind Smith or even to replace him some other OLine guys could be Frederick or Abushi. This pick is when people who were expected to go in the 1st round but somehow fell is picked up. Now if we traded back we might have an extra 3rd rounder and try to get both. Or if we somehow skipped out on RB, which I doubt, they may use the extra 3rd to take a chance on Lattimore which would make people breath a little easier.

The rest of the draft will be for whoever happens to fall to give us depth. Look for another WR and TE at some point. CB is another staple for a late round pick up.

The reason I am not sold on this draft, is because no one has separated themselves, which means either a: They are all good or great players or b. they are all mediocre. I don't see a huge difference from the Safety or RB position. To me Elam is just as good as Vaccaro, and Lacy is just as good as Bernard, nothing WOW out of any of them and that is with them healthy. Now I do see Lattimore as a WOW player if he is healthy and since we know we can win with BJGE then RB is a spot that we can gamble a bit on, so why not gamble big.

LBers in this draft that I actually like are Collins, Hodges, Greene and even Thomas. I actually think they are better than Olgetree, they also play a bit better in schemes and look to be easily coach-able. Olgetree seems to like to free lance and is hit or miss sometimes. Yes he has a WOW play one minute then the next it is "What are you doing?" Not a fan of that type of inconsistency.

Again the OP was a wishful thinking draft for me. Our Offense wasn't as good as the Defense and I like the idea of protecting Dalton by grabbing a top flight OG if available and Warmack is the best in the draft. OC and Jones is the best in the draft. RBs who have WOW if the gamble pays out over ones who will be productive but not WOW even though they are healthy.

almost every"expert" has us going DE in the first, S in the 2nd, as for lattimore, no way do we take him in the 3rd, maybe and i mean maybe in the 6th but not before then. personally i go lb in 1, s at 2a, rb 2b, lb at 3,c at 4 unless MJ and AS are not resigned

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by crazymad

almost every"expert" has us going DE in the first, S in the 2nd, as for lattimore, no way do we take him in the 3rd, maybe and i mean maybe in the 6th but not before then. personally i go lb in 1, s at 2a, rb 2b, lb at 3,c at 4 unless MJ and AS are not resigned

The "experts" reasoning is that MJ and Smith are FAs, they probably think we will resign Smith but that will cost us MJ. They don't realize, or care, that we have enough to resign both. Even though out of the 2 MJ will probably be easier to sign over Smith.

So you go LBer in 1, S at 2a? Which LBer would you take at 1? Te'o, Minter, or Olgetree? Safety, Elam, Reid or Rambo? RB at 2b. Randle, Gillislee, or speed guys like Franklin or Barner. Not seeing much separation from any of these players from their respective positions. Minter is probably the best LBer we could pick up and any other draft he is a 2nd/3rd rounder.

[crazymad]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

The "experts" reasoning is that MJ and Smith are FAs, they probably think we will resign Smith but that will cost us MJ. They don't realize, or care, that we have enough to resign both. Even though out of the 2 MJ will probably be easier to sign over Smith.

So you go LBer in 1, S at 2a? Which LBer would you take at 1? Te'o, Minter, or Olgetree? Safety, Elam, Reid or Rambo? RB at 2b. Randle, Gillislee, or speed guys like Franklin or Barner. Not seeing much separation from any of these players from their respective positions. Minter is probably the best LBer we could pick up and any other draft he is a 2nd/3rd rounder.

i dont like rambo at all i believe he's a 4th or 5th rounder, i like ogletree at 1(if he;s there) i dont think elam will be there at 2a but if he is he's my guy if not i wait til 2b and take bernard. at 2b its TJ Mcdonald if we take bernard, if elam is taken at 2a then we go DE or OT, we go speed back with gilislee or franklin in the 4th, in the third i see khaseem greene or chase thomas to back up thomas howard til they are ready to take over, or we go vaccaro at 1 and minter at 2a, thats the way i see it as of now, the combine and campus workouts will sort it out more

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by crazymad

i dont like rambo at all i believe he's a 4th or 5th rounder, i like ogletree at 1(if he;s there) i dont think elam will be there at 2a but if he is he's my guy if not i wait til 2b and take bernard. at 2b its TJ Mcdonald if we take bernard, if elam is taken at 2a then we go DE or OT, we go speed back with gilislee or franklin in the 4th, in the third i see khaseem greene or chase thomas to back up thomas howard til they are ready to take over, or we go vaccaro at 1 and minter at 2a, thats the way i see it as of now, the combine and campus workouts will sort it out more

To each their own. You like taking a shot at LBer early with a guy who has a high boom coupled with a slightly higher bust chance. Where I like OG with a very high boom and a low bust early. I also like taking a LBer like Collins or Hodges who have a boom to bust ratio at about 50/50 later in the draft.

You also just want another RB that just blends into the game but no ability to take it over. Where I am looking at improving the OLine (which improves the R and taking the chance at a dynamic play making RB.

At Safety you want a guy who is comparable to every other safety in the draft even Rambo. I don't mind grabbing one of these guys even have Elam at 2b, however if he isn't there we don't sweat because there are about 4-5 guys who are comparable.

So you have your draft, and I have mine. Some hate it and I get that, some like it and I definitely get that.

[urinalcake]

Really don't think Warmack will fall to us, but if he did I could live with the pick. 2 OL picks that high seems like a little overkill to me, but completely understand the thought process. Above all else, I think B Jones at 2a would be the best pick we've had since AJ. As others have said here, his versatility is exactly what we need. If Robinson can handle C, we can use him to replace Boling. Like your thought process with this mock, great stuff.

[crazymad]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

To each their own. You like taking a shot at LBer early with a guy who has a high boom coupled with a slightly higher bust chance. Where I like OG with a very high boom and a low bust early. I also like taking a LBer like Collins or Hodges who have a boom to bust ratio at about 50/50 later in the draft.

You also just want another RB that just blends into the game but no ability to take it over. Where I am looking at improving the OLine (which improves the R and taking the chance at a dynamic play making RB.

At Safety you want a guy who is comparable to every other safety in the draft even Rambo. I don't mind grabbing one of these guys even have Elam at 2b, however if he isn't there we don't sweat because there are about 4-5 guys who are comparable.

So you have your draft, and I have mine. Some hate it and I get that, some like it and I definitely get that.

what i dont get is taking a guard early when we have 3 guards on our roster who are starters for almost every team in the league. we need starters at lb and s right now. as for rb we aren't looking for a guy who can take over a game we are looking for a speed guy that can catch the ball out of the backfield and spell BJGE who was just fine this year and the 2nd half of the year he looked really good. and i dont understand the boom/bust potential of anyone no one can predict that. warmack can just as easily blow out his knee as ogletree. and lattimore in the 3rd is beyond me. in the 1st 3 rounds you look for starters in the 4th you look for guys with potential to start that just need some coaching in the 5th you look for ST guys and in the 6th and 7th is when you take fliers on guys with injuries and questionable backgrounds

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by crazymad

what i dont get is taking a guard early when we have 3 guards on our roster who are starters for almost every team in the league. we need starters at lb and s right now. as for rb we aren't looking for a guy who can take over a game we are looking for a speed guy that can catch the ball out of the backfield and spell BJGE who was just fine this year and the 2nd half of the year he looked really good. and i dont understand the boom/bust potential of anyone no one can predict that. warmack can just as easily blow out his knee as ogletree. and lattimore in the 3rd is beyond me. in the 1st 3 rounds you look for starters in the 4th you look for guys with potential to start that just need some coaching in the 5th you look for ST guys and in the 6th and 7th is when you take fliers on guys with injuries and questionable backgrounds

We have 3 guards that could be starters on other teams? Boling is good but he isn't better than Warmack. Robinson was OK at Center but Jones would be an upgrade. We have some good players, but not elite players. Let's have an elite.

We need starters at LBer? With Rey (who I feel was terrible), Lawson, Burfict, Lemur, and Skuta we had a top 10 Defense. So even though we could stand to improve our LBer core we don't "need" starters.

The boom/bust potential is simple. Ogletree could fail even without getting injured which would increase his bust potential, Warmack would basically need to be injured to bust, which is unlikely. Look at where they were drafted and then the expectations increase, which factors in to the boom/bust ratio. The earlier they are drafted then the improvement should be immediate and noticeable. Olgetree could just disappear all together even without getting injured. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be productive, but he wouldn't produce with the same impact that you look for from a 1st round pick. All this high expectation coupled with the low production would label Olgetree a bust.

Not just Olgetree but any LBer that we draft in the 1st round. Rey was a 2nd rounder and is considered a bust, though he did play well enough for our team to be a top 10 Defense every year he has been here. Yet the expectation we have for our LBers are so high that we will say "get rid of Rey, he is terrible". What will we say if we drafted Minter, Olgetree, or Te'o and they play like Rey? Where they are good enough for us to have a top 10 defense, but no INTs, SCKs, or TFL? We would consider that LBer busted.

RB. Your right about winning just fine with BJGE, which is WHY Lattimore makes sense. If Lattimore is healthy then he is better than Lacy, Bernard, Franklin, and Gillislee, easily. With BJGE there is no need to rush Lattimore, and let him learn the game and get stronger. When BJGE leaves, then Lattimore would be ready to take over full time. Yes Lattimore could bust and his chances are higher due to injury, but the boom is just so hard to pass up. A healthy Lattimore doesn't just improve the run game, it improves our team.

Now if the 3rd is too early for you then fine, take him in the 4th or 5th if you think he will be there. I don't think he falls or goes undrafted, he won't be a 1st or 2nd rounder, and not an early 3rd rounder. He will be 4th rounder that will probably be taken late 3rd to early 4th.

[crazymad]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

We have 3 guards that could be starters on other teams? Boling is good but he isn't better than Warmack. Robinson was OK at Center but Jones would be an upgrade. We have some good players, but not elite players. Let's have an elite.

We need starters at LBer? With Rey (who I feel was terrible), Lawson, Burfict, Lemur, and Skuta we had a top 10 Defense. So even though we could stand to improve our LBer core we don't "need" starters.

The boom/bust potential is simple. Ogletree could fail even without getting injured which would increase his bust potential, Warmack would basically need to be injured to bust, which is unlikely. Look at where they were drafted and then the expectations increase, which factors in to the boom/bust ratio. The earlier they are drafted then the improvement should be immediate and noticeable. Olgetree could just disappear all together even without getting injured. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be productive, but he wouldn't produce with the same impact that you look for from a 1st round pick. All this high expectation coupled with the low production would label Olgetree a bust.

Not just Olgetree but any LBer that we draft in the 1st round. Rey was a 2nd rounder and is considered a bust, though he did play well enough for our team to be a top 10 Defense every year he has been here. Yet the expectation we have for our LBers are so high that we will say "get rid of Rey, he is terrible". What will we say if we drafted Minter, Olgetree, or Te'o and they play like Rey? Where they are good enough for us to have a top 10 defense, but no INTs, SCKs, or TFL? We would consider that LBer busted.

RB. Your right about winning just fine with BJGE, which is WHY Lattimore makes sense. If Lattimore is healthy then he is better than Lacy, Bernard, Franklin, and Gillislee, easily. With BJGE there is no need to rush Lattimore, and let him learn the game and get stronger. When BJGE leaves, then Lattimore would be ready to take over full time. Yes Lattimore could bust and his chances are higher due to injury, but the boom is just so hard to pass up. A healthy Lattimore doesn't just improve the run game, it improves our team.

Now if the 3rd is too early for you then fine, take him in the 4th or 5th if you think he will be there. I don't think he falls or goes undrafted, he won't be a 1st or 2nd rounder, and not an early 3rd rounder. He will be 4th rounder that will probably be taken late 3rd to early 4th.

you have no idea what you are talking about

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by crazymad

you have no idea what you are talking about

Now you resort to this. So Sad.

[crazymad]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

Now you resort to this. So Sad.

its the nicest thing i could say without being mean.................... and its true

[BoomerFan]

I would LOVE this draft. I am all about O-Line and O-Line depth. You just cannot overstate how much that does for a team.

[Pezmerga]

I would definitely take Warmack if he is there. But I would like a top WR at 2A if possible in that scenario.