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  #26  
Old 02-07-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ginger phoenix View Post
One thing I've learned over the years, if it's a big name, or at least a player you've heard of that's in their prime, the bengals will not sign him. If they were to sign any free agent wide receiver, it will either be someone over the hill or a teams 4th or 5th string wide receiver that we bring in to be our number 2.

You just have to face it, if we are getting a new wide receiver, they will be a rookie....or worthless.
Blah blah blah
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

Gotta be honest.

A speedster with bad hands isn't ideal for a QB like Andy Dalton.

Not only will Dalton not be able to consistently throw the 9 route in front of him, but when he does, Wallace has like a 50% chance of dropping it.

Not interested.
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2013, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

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  #29  
Old 02-07-2013, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

I think Wallace could be had for $6-8 Mill a year. That would be my price range too. Give him the option. Lets see how the combine goes and we might be able to add a better receiver through the draft.

Wallace would definitely be a big time threat and would pull some double coverage off AJ. Just his speed alone would realign the secondary and then you open up everyone, whether its Gresham up the middle, Sanu in the slot, Hawkins in the slot.....etc. In no way should Brown throw him $10-11 mill / year.
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  #30  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

The Bengals in the eyes of many have a glaring weakness at the 2nd wide receiver position. The Bengals have a ton of cap money. One plus two equals three, but I forgot to mention 3 and 4 and that is the Bengals of MJ and Andre Smith to sign. They also need to seriously consider extending Geno.

I would love the idea to possibly stick it to the Steelers and I think Wallace would be a huge upgrade to any option we could throw out there to help our young receivers have some time to develop into great receivers.

But, I see a very small shot of this happening.
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  #31  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

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Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
I think Wallace could be had for $6-8 Mill a year. That would be my price range too. Give him the option. Lets see how the combine goes and we might be able to add a better receiver through the draft.

Wallace would definitely be a big time threat and would pull some double coverage off AJ. Just his speed alone would realign the secondary and then you open up everyone, whether its Gresham up the middle, Sanu in the slot, Hawkins in the slot.....etc. In no way should Brown throw him $10-11 mill / year.
I could see Brown going for $ 6-8 a year, 2-4 yr range. I see Wallace asking for $10 mil a year to start off FA. As guys get signed and his asking price lowers, then I could maybe see us getting feelers out. But I think any team thinking he is worth $10 mil a year would have made the trade last year, but they knew it would most likely just be a one year loan costing them a first rounder.

If Wallace is still available a week after FA starts, then this might become a hotter topic.
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  #32  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

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Originally Posted by crazyjdawg View Post
Gotta be honest.

A speedster with bad hands isn't ideal for a QB like Andy Dalton.

Not only will Dalton not be able to consistently throw the 9 route in front of him, but when he does, Wallace has like a 50% chance of dropping it.

Not interested.
50%? I've seen him catch way more than he's dropped.

It's not as much the throwing of the route as the running of the route and the threat of throwing the route and the benefit to the rest of the offense. Probably takes a S off AJ and opens up the middle for Gresh or Sanu and takes a man out of the box for the run game. And he does more than go deep too.

I wouldn't say he has bad hands, more like inconsistent hands. But most of the time, he caught everything against us. The dude is a playmaker and a weapon.

I just fail to see the downside. I don't think It'll ever happen but I would love it if it did.

I predict there will be a dramatic improvement from Andy on the deep throw, BTW. He's working on it right now. (He doesn't always underthrow. He overthrows too).
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  #33  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:13 PM
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bengals Re: Talk beginning to churn

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Maybe if he's very rich he has a lot less to be crappy about. That's one of his beefs gone. And he would catch 70-90 passes, which would vanquish the other.

I'm not delusional, so I don't think he'll ever come here. But it would be really nice to have him. Watch the offense come alive then. Rookies don't always show as rookies.

Time to stop this counting on unknowns and being bitten in the butt from it. You wanna make a SB run, cross those unknowns off the damn list. How many years do we have to be haunted by the same things before somebody does something?

How about this? Poll the locker room and see how they feel about bringing in a guy who averages 17 yards a catch and I'll accept the vote.
Does it not make you wonder why he is not more used on a team that is a perennial contender and has a QB with a huge arm? Maybe Tomlin is just a terrible coach? A guy as talented as these boards claim yet a team like Pittsburgh whom many want us to be like does not seem to value him so highly? Head scratcher isnt it?

By the way Brandon Tate averaged 18 yards per catch in New England.
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  #34  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:18 PM
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bengals Re: Talk beginning to churn

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50%? I've seen him catch way more than he's dropped.

It's not as much the throwing of the route as the running of the route and the threat of throwing the route and the benefit to the rest of the offense. Probably takes a S off AJ and opens up the middle for Gresh or Sanu and takes a man out of the box for the run game. And he does more than go deep too.

I wouldn't say he has bad hands, more like inconsistent hands. But most of the time, he caught everything against us. The dude is a playmaker and a weapon.

I just fail to see the downside. I don't think It'll ever happen but I would love it if it did.

I predict there will be a dramatic improvement from Andy on the deep throw, BTW. He's working on it right now. (He doesn't always underthrow. He overthrows too).
His reception percentage has dropped every season:

2010-60.8%
2011-60.5%
2012-53.8%
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  #35  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
His reception percentage has dropped every season:

2010-60.8%
2011-60.5%
2012-53.8%
So 46.2% of the balls that hit his hands were dropped or 46.2% of the times he was targeted the ball was not caught? Big difference in my mind.

I don't doubt that those stats are out there but, I'd like to see what that number actually means.
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  #36  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post

By the way Brandon Tate averaged 18 yards per catch in New England.
When Tate was averaging 18 ypc and 27 ypg. He had 24 catches for the YEAR.

In Wallace's pro-bowl season he averages 16.6 ypc and 72 catches for the year have to say those two are not comparing apples to apples. Even in this season when his number are down, he's still averaging 56 ypg.

Also, Ben's numbers were down this season as well. 800 yards less passing this year. I'd look to changing OC's as much of that as anything.

You can downplay Wallace all you want, but for the Steelers he was 1st in receiving yards (836), tied for first in touchdowns (8), had the longest play from scrimmage, and had the 2nd highest receptions yards per game (55.7). Unless your last name is Green, none of our wide outs can even sniff those numbers.
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Last edited by Since82; 02-07-2013 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Clarification on stats
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  #37  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

Its just NOT SMART to tie up that much money into one position when you have this many team holes. If we truely feel its the last piece you do it 10/10 times. But we have to spread our cap out to our linebackers, safties, running backs, and o line.

I just wont condone putting 20+ million into the WR position when a team like NE is ULTRA SUCCESSFUL with not one WR who is really eternally skilled. I say 20+ million dollars because AJ will make more than whatever Wallace makes
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  #38  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:47 PM
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When Tate was averaging 18 ypc and 27 ypg. He had 24 catches for the YEAR.

In Wallace's pro-bowl season he averages 16.6 ypc and 72 catches for the year have to say those two are not comparing apples to apples. Even in this season when his number are down, he's still averaging 56 ypg.

Also, Ben's numbers were down this season as well. 800 yards less passing this year. I'd look to changing OC's as much of that as anything.

You can downplay Wallace all you want, but for the Steelers he was 1st in receiving yards (836), tied for first in touchdowns (8), had the longest play from scrimmage, and had the 2nd highest receptions yards per game (55.7). Unless your last name is Green, none of our wide outs can even sniff those numbers.
This is pretty much spot on.
Personally I think that there are other options available that are more affordable.
I will say that it would be nice if the Bengals didn't have to worry about him twice a year.
Arians leaving and Ben's discomfort with Haley's playcalling held Pitt's offense back this past season. Hopefully that trend will continue next year but then again it might be just the opposite and they may all get on the same page, which obviously could be trouble for Cincy and the rest of the AFC North.
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:54 PM
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bengals Re: Talk beginning to churn

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So 46.2% of the balls that hit his hands were dropped or 46.2% of the times he was targeted the ball was not caught? Big difference in my mind.

I don't doubt that those stats are out there but, I'd like to see what that number actually means.
It is called target and utilization statistics and easily searchable.
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  #40  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Talk beginning to churn

We have enough receivers who can't hold on to the ball, and they cost a lot less than Wallace is going to want. Pass.
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:19 PM
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:23 PM
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Jennings>>>> Wallace
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:30 PM
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.....By the way Brandon Tate averaged 18 yards per catch in New England.
Sure, but comparisons end there. Wallace has 26 TDs and over 3000 yards the last 3 years. I think the problems with drops are also over-stated ... according to this he had 6 last year: http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/l...rank=232&year=

...not great, but also not alarming for a guy who was targeted 119 times last year (according to footballoutsiders.com). There are legit arguments against the signing ... salary implications with AJ coming up for a new deal in a couple years etc. ... but in terms of talent and proven production Wallace is a mega-upgrade over all players we have behind AJ at WR right now.

Last edited by Ryan Mc; 02-07-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:31 PM
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  #45  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:41 PM
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It is called target and utilization statistics and easily searchable.
Found it.

FWIW, Vincent Jackson and Larry Fitzgerald are both below Wallace and I'd take either one of those two in a heartbeat.

According to those rankings as well Gresham is more effective than Green which I find very hard to believe.
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  #46  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:48 PM
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I said nothing about money. I have no doubt he would come here for the money. Not sure how that relates to attitude. Then he would just be very rich with a crappy attitude.
He had an attitude because he wanted to get paid. If he's paid, attitude disappears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
It's not as much the throwing of the route as the running of the route and the threat of throwing the route and the benefit to the rest of the offense. Probably takes a S off AJ and opens up the middle for Gresh or Sanu and takes a man out of the box for the run game. And he does more than go deep too.
Common sense. Refreshing.

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Does it not make you wonder why he is not more used on a team that is a perennial contender and has a QB with a huge arm? Maybe Tomlin is just a terrible coach? A guy as talented as these boards claim yet a team like Pittsburgh whom many want us to be like does not seem to value him so highly? Head scratcher isnt it?

By the way Brandon Tate averaged 18 yards per catch in New England.
Comparing Tate to Wallace?

As for why he wasn't used more, that may have had something to do with Todd Haley's offense, which Roethlisberger called "dink and dunk". Even in this dink and dunk offense, he still had 836 yards and 8 scores. In his 2 previous seasons, he averaged over 1200 yards and 9 scores. He was used plenty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
His reception percentage has dropped every season:

2010-60.8%
2011-60.5%
2012-53.8%
2010 and 2011 were nearly identical. 2012 is obviously a reflection of the new offense.

Btw, AJ Green's career reception % is 57.9. Anything over 60 is pretty outstanding for a WR.

Look at it this way, 60% is a solid completion % for QB's, but generally they complete a lower % to WR's due to coverage and the length of the throws.

That's usually balanced out with high % passes to RBs and TEs, otherwise QB's would not complete 60%. Basically, if a WR has a 60% catch rate, it's impressive.
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  #47  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Housh View Post
Its just NOT SMART to tie up that much money into one position when you have this many team holes. If we truely feel its the last piece you do it 10/10 times. But we have to spread our cap out to our linebackers, safties, running backs, and o line.

I just wont condone putting 20+ million into the WR position when a team like NE is ULTRA SUCCESSFUL with not one WR who is really eternally skilled. I say 20+ million dollars because AJ will make more than whatever Wallace makes
It really depends on how well you draft. If you are in "win-now" mode, something like this makes sense. AJ won't get a new contract for a couple of years, Dalton won't get a new contract for a couple of years. That means you essentially have a 2 year window.

IF you front load the contract, there won't be that much of a cap number when the extensions to the other guys are due.

IF you sign a WR in free agency (not saying that Wallace is the guy) it will free up the first 3 picks to get a Safety, LB and another key guy.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
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This is first thing that went through my mind when I read this thread.

Although, don't laugh too hard, Mikey did shell out some major scratch to get Coles and Bryant in here. He loves skill players.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BigPapaKain View Post
We have enough receivers who can't hold on to the ball, and they cost a lot less than Wallace is going to want. Pass.
Jimmie Graham, Victor Cruz, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Dez Bryant, and A.J. Green all dropped more passes than Wallace last season (among others).

I don't see that as a big problem.
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  #50  
Old 02-07-2013, 11:00 PM
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This is first thing that went through my mind when I read this thread.

Although, don't laugh too hard, Mikey did shell out some major scratch to get Coles and Bryant in here. He loves skill players.
It's just difficult to get behind the idea of us making a big splash know free agency. Coles was declining, but he wound up hitting a brick wall here. Bryant didn't do much until Tampa and that blew up in our face. Our biggest splash, Odom, came during one of the weakest free agency periods recently.

We had a lot of cap room last season and people were convinced we were going to sign someone like Mario Williams. Instead we signed guys like Jamal Anderson and Derrick Harvey. I imagine that we'll play around with the money and pour most of it in our own players and continue our usual bottom of the barrel signings.
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