Do you really have faith that Dalton is the QB that leads us to a championship?

[TheLeonardLeap]

Originally Posted by Joelist

There should also have been a veteran TE with good hands brought on - again something in their budgetary wheelhouse. That way Gresham could have gotten the benching his constant drops, fumbles and penalties merited.

There was a veteran TE.. Donald Lee, but he went down in the preseason, and they just didn't replace him with another veteran... constant fumbles, eh? Gresham had 2 fumbles, 1 lost on the entire season, which is the exact same amount as AJ Green... so did AJ Green have constant fumbling problems too? I'm sorry, but everytime I see someone refer to Greshams "fumbling problems", it cracks me up.. the guy's never had more than 2 fumbles in a year, and never more than 1 lost fumble in a year.

Also, about his penalties, half of that is on the Bengals coaching staff. He's not a very good blocking TE. We all know that, nobody has ever tried to say otherwise, I don't believe. So why is it they keep asking him to block? And not just block, but block team's leading passrusher 1-on-1 at times? Off the top of my head I can remember him being assigned to block Justin Tuck as well as Cameron Wake 1-on-1.. he got a holding penalty. Which isn't surprising. That's the coaches putting a player in a position to fail rather than them putting a player in a position to succeed.

[spazz70]

Yes

[finso]

It looks as though when Andy can find and get the ball close to the receivers and Gresham, they make the catch more often than most receiving groups in the NFL.
While being near the top ten in pass attempts, only Flacco and Rivers had less catchable balls dropped.
I guess the too many drops excuse is out the window..interesting.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...sses-per-qb/2/
Who wouldn't want this receiving group?

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by finso

It looks as though when Andy can find and get the ball close to the receivers and Gresham, they make the catch more often than most receiving groups in the NFL.
While being near the top ten in pass attempts, only Flacco and Rivers had less catchable balls dropped.
I guess the too many drops excuse is out the window..interesting.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...sses-per-qb/2/
Who wouldn't want this receiving group?

That article was written on 11/21, well before Dalton's 5 game skid where receivers were dropping balls like they had oil on them.

8 drops against the Cowboys, then 6 more against the Eagles. Then at least 3 against the Steelers.

I wonder how that would've affected the percentage?

[spazz70]

Originally Posted by finso

It looks as though when Andy can find and get the ball close to the receivers and Gresham, they make the catch more often than most receiving groups in the NFL.
While being near the top ten in pass attempts, only Flacco and Rivers had less catchable balls dropped.
I guess the too many drops excuse is out the window..interesting.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...sses-per-qb/2/
Who wouldn't want this receiving group?

That article is a month before the season ended...shows Flacco with 344 att when he finished the season with 531 att...also...Rice and Leach had 82 receptions compared to 33 to BJGE and Leonard...just sayin...much easier completions to RBs

And who sits and watches every game and determines whether a catch was catchable or not?

[spazz70]

Originally Posted by finso

It looks as though when Andy can find and get the ball close to the receivers and Gresham, they make the catch more often than most receiving groups in the NFL.
While being near the top ten in pass attempts, only Flacco and Rivers had less catchable balls dropped.
I guess the too many drops excuse is out the window..interesting.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...sses-per-qb/2/
Who wouldn't want this receiving group?

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb...rank=232&year=

AJ was in top 10 in dropped passes...Gresham had 6...click on AFC and Gresham is on list

Surprising...Graham and Megatron 1 and 3 but targeted a ton.....

[havean]

I have plenty of faith in Dalton As do I with blue collar QBS Brees Brady ect. I love how his stats did improve since his first year. People he needs a better Middle line running back and a solid #2 Wr. Add those that's a recipe for a scary offense! I will say yes he needs to not rush his deep passes so much that is why he had a lot of them are over thrown Balls which to me indicates he has a stronger arm than the last year where he under threw a lot.


You can not judge a QB in his first 2 years if you do then your not smart period! usually you can tell from 3-5 what exactly you got!

[Joelist]

I did not say "constant fumbles". I listed fumbles along with the constant drops (which there were) and the penalties. Also the wrong routes run and other foolishness. Gresham richly deserves to be ripped - a TE in the passing game needs to be technically super sound and he is not.

[phil413]

Totally. The man steadily improved statistically without a consistent (healthy) #2 option, above average offensive line play and a less than average run attack. Funny how his QBR # is sandwiched between Flacco and Eli. Andy is smart enough to make the right play, and given the weapons he is good enough to help them make a run as a team. Bottom line...this team has the resources to build a championship roster, and Dalton has shown the improvement to trust with the game on the line.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by finso

It looks as though when Andy can find and get the ball close to the receivers and Gresham, they make the catch more often than most receiving groups in the NFL.
While being near the top ten in pass attempts, only Flacco and Rivers had less catchable balls dropped.
I guess the too many drops excuse is out the window..interesting.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...sses-per-qb/2/
Who wouldn't want this receiving group?

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

That article was written on 11/21, well before Dalton's 5 game skid where receivers were dropping balls like they had oil on them.

8 drops against the Cowboys, then 6 more against the Eagles. Then at least 3 against the Steelers.

I wonder how that would've affected the percentage?

How would one type out the fail noise from the Price is Right? Because that's what I want to put right here.

[Starvin Marvin]

Dalton's not gonna win us a Superbowl by himself thru sheer willpower or talent. But he doesn't have to if you put the right people in place around him. There's only so many top tier QB in the NFL. Not every team is gonna have one. What's needed is a QB and 10 other guys who are efficient and can execute any given play in any down and distance scenario. Superstars make that process easier and goats make it harder. It's really that simple. Dalton is neither so give him a great OL, and a decent RB and #2 WR and you'd have a SB quality offense IMHO.

[Captain Happy Pants]

Didn't people say the same thing about Flacco? People in bmore wanted him out of town on more than one occasion. Give Dalton time and he will shine

[EatonFan]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

I don't see how people can come to the conclusion of YES. If you were NOT a Bengals fan and you watched Andy Dalton would you think "Yea this guy is a Superbowl caliber QB"

YES. Joe Montana did not have great arm strength. This is a team game. We win as a team. Lose as a team. You act as though QB is the end all be all to winning a SB.

Yeah. I think Dalton can be a superbowl caliber QB with the right pieces around him. He makes good decisions.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by EatonFan

YES. Joe Montana did not have great arm strength. This is a team game. We win as a team. Lose as a team. You act as though QB is the end all be all to winning a SB.

Yeah. I think Dalton can be a superbowl caliber QB with the right pieces around him. He makes good decisions.

Arm strength is overrated. IMO the 3 most important traits of a QB are:

1. Vision (i.e. seeing the field, able to go through progressions quickly and diagnose the correct spot to throw the ball).

2. Accuracy- In the NFL the windows where the ball needs to go are tight. Not too much margin for error.

3. Anticipation - See above about tight windows

That being said arm strength does effect down the field accuracy...but I don't care how far a guy can throw it as long as the ball is where its supposed to be when it is supposed to be there.

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by junglester

I like Dalton as a QB, but he is not going to be elite. He is no Brady or Manning. I think the Bengals will not make the SuperBowl with him as QB.

Manning wasn't the Manning we've seen the last several years when he first started out. Brady wasn't even good enough to crack into the middle of the draft.

Dalton has some similarities to both. Geez....he went to the Pro-Bowl as a rookie, remember? But, most of Brady's or Manning's skills come from experience and having good teams around them. Bengals are so so close. They'll get there.

I predict Dalton will go to the Pro-Bowl again next season.

Dalton has that WILL, those leadership qualities that are hard to pin down. Carson may have had better natural skills. But, he also had that "moody" attitude.

I feel much more optimistic today than I did with Carson (with the possible exception of '06).

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by phil413

Totally. The man steadily improved statistically without a consistent (healthy) #2 option, above average offensive line play and a less than average run attack. Funny how his QBR # is sandwiched between Flacco and Eli. Andy is smart enough to make the right play, and given the weapons he is good enough to help them make a run as a team. Bottom line...this team has the resources to build a championship roster, and Dalton has shown the improvement to trust with the game on the line.

Andy Dalton,our qb must improve a ton this year and I believe he will. What will help him is a better line playing a ton better as well.He had too much pressure on him last 4-5 games and the speed of the nfl caught up with him.He has to find the open man downfield better and get them the ball.No more running out of the pocket and not getting anything.That has to stop.He killed alot of drives doing that.Alot of times when they failed to get a 1st down and had to come off the field, it was on him.For our team to go farther this year, he must play alot better and I think he will.If he doesn't , it would not surprise me if a backup comes in at times and plays.Besides if he continues to run like he has, he will get hurt.He made some bad decisions last year and it hurt us big time.The jury is still out on him and I believe he knows what he has to do to be better.I hear he is already working on alot of plays.

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

There was a veteran TE.. Donald Lee, but he went down in the preseason, and they just didn't replace him with another veteran... constant fumbles, eh? Gresham had 2 fumbles, 1 lost on the entire season, which is the exact same amount as AJ Green... so did AJ Green have constant fumbling problems too? I'm sorry, but everytime I see someone refer to Greshams "fumbling problems", it cracks me up.. the guy's never had more than 2 fumbles in a year, and never more than 1 lost fumble in a year.

Also, about his penalties, half of that is on the Bengals coaching staff. He's not a very good blocking TE. We all know that, nobody has ever tried to say otherwise, I don't believe. So why is it they keep asking him to block? And not just block, but block team's leading passrusher 1-on-1 at times? Off the top of my head I can remember him being assigned to block Justin Tuck as well as Cameron Wake 1-on-1.. he got a holding penalty. Which isn't surprising. That's the coaches putting a player in a position to fail rather than them putting a player in a position to succeed.

That's the thing that has bothered me ever since Bratkowskis time here. Why or why do you ask a pass catching TE to block? If you want a blocking TE, put one in.

This is a Mike Brown issue. He doesn't want to have situational TEs. He wants one TE that can do everything well. Guess what? Pay for one (if you can find one who is available to come here).

[finso]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

That article was written on 11/21, well before Dalton's 5 game skid where receivers were dropping balls like they had oil on them.

8 drops against the Cowboys, then 6 more against the Eagles. Then at least 3 against the Steelers.

I wonder how that would've affected the percentage?

Originally Posted by spazz70

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb...rank=232&year=

AJ was in top 10 in dropped passes...Gresham had 6...click on AFC and Gresham is on list

Surprising...Graham and Megatron 1 and 3 but targeted a ton.....

. It was 11 games into the season.
The Bengals went 5-1 after the article was written. But thats not the point.
I'm making an argument for the other receivers. Gresham is a bum and I can't defend him.
But the majority of the drops were from Green and Gresham as you say.
Is anyone calling for Green's head? Ofcourse not.
I'd like to know how many catchable balls Sanu,Jones and Hawkins dropped.

[jsr18]

2 things.

1.) Dalton just went through his sophmore slump.

2.) He's been a top 6 QB in the AFC twice in 2 yrs (playoffs).

Some people have trouble seeing the forest through the trees...

[RoadHazard]

I feel more comfortable with Dalton than I do with Gruden.

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by jsr18

2 things.

1.) Dalton just went through his sophmore slump.

2.) He's been a top 6 QB in the AFC twice in 2 yrs (playoffs).

Some people have trouble seeing the forest through the trees...

Amen brother! How many different ways can we answer the same question?

Dalton was our QB yesterday, is today, will be tomorrow.

He's one of the best players on the TEAM. He's a really good player that has every sign he'll be a great player!

End of story!!!!!

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by finso

. It was 11 games into the season.
The Bengals went 5-1 after the article was written. But thats not the point.
I'm making an argument for the other receivers. Gresham is a bum and I can't defend him.
But the majority of the drops were from Green and Gresham as you say.
Is anyone calling for Green's head? Ofcourse not.
I'd like to know how many catchable balls Sanu,Jones and Hawkins dropped.

It was 10 games into the season. Before we had 17 frops in a 3 game stretch. They were all catchable. I don't remember seeing guys leaping for balls that just grazed their fingertips. I remember seeing guys just straight up dropping legit good throws.

Jones dropped a few. Hawkins dropped at least a couple. AJ dropped an easy game winner. Gresh dropped 3 in the playoff game. This isn't about knocking those guys, I'm just saying it wasn't Dalton's fault and those 17 drops played a part in Dalton's 4 game skid.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by jsr18

2 things.

1.) Dalton just went through his sophmore slump.

2.) He's been a top 6 QB in the AFC twice in 2 yrs (playoffs).

Some people have trouble seeing the forest through the trees...

I don't even think he had a sophomore slump. He improved his passer rating by seven points. He improved, with a garbage run game. His only good target dropped a bunch of passes........Still, rather than slump, he improved his rating. Dalton is money.

[baclaw]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Thanks for your enlightening post.

do you expect anything else? But seriosuly I like Dalton and think he "could" be the guy to lead us to the SB "if" he has enough weapons, but... thats just my homerism,, Dalton has alot of work to do and a long way to go till he becomes clutch.. I stand by my past thoughts, atm all Dalton has proved is that he is a Trent Dilfer type.. minus the SB ring atm.. Dalton could def change my thoughts. But atm it is what he is.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by baclaw

do you expect anything else? But seriosuly I like Dalton and think he "could" be the guy to lead us to the SB "if" he has enough weapons, but... thats just my homerism,, Dalton has alot of work to do and a long way to go till he becomes clutch.. I stand by my past thoughts, atm all Dalton has proved is that he is a Trent Dilfer type.. minus the SB ring atm.. Dalton could def change my thoughts. But atm it is what he is.

- Trent Dilfer never completed 60% of his throws in a season
- He maxed out at 2,859 yards for a single season.
- His high for TD's was 21.
- His career passer rating was 70.2

You lose all credibility if you really think Dilfer was on Dalton's level.

As for the bolded sentence, Dalton has 20 TD's and 0 INT's in the red zone for his career, as well as 7 game winning drives and 5 4th quarter comebacks.

That's clutch.