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Old 02-09-2013, 08:46 AM
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bengals Don't be surprised with a DE early

Over the next two years, we have to get Geno locked up. That's one, giant, payroll squeeze right there. We have MJ hitting FA this year, and Dunlap the following.

I just can't see the Bengals having three large contracts for DL at one time.

The scenario I've come to is MJ getting the tag, us drafting a DE (Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery, D. Jones, Hunt?), and this being a one-year tryout b/w Dunlap and MJ for the big contract next year. Remember, we chose one of our awesome CB tandem to keep, and I think that might be a precedent for how we handle the DEs. We can afford MJ's tag this year, as much of a luxury that is. But I don't see both getting the long contract, and I'm not certain MJ will just get it because his rookie contract was up first, though he has been more durable to this point.

At some point in the very near future, resigning our guys is going to become costly and we'll be forced to make some tough decisions. I can't see us keeping 3 pricey linemen, and this year we're almost guaranteed to have a shot at DE in the 1st or even at 37 if we luck out.

I know this topic has been discussed before and thanks for just reading this far, but does this read like a sound strategy you can see the FO using moving into FA/Draft?

EDIT: Fixed title avy, was showing a Seahawk lol.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:57 AM
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bengals Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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Originally Posted by TGISunday View Post
Over the next two years, we have to get Geno locked up. That's one, giant, payroll squeeze right there. We have MJ hitting FA this year, and Dunlap the following.

I just can't see the Bengals having three large contracts for DL at one time.

The scenario I've come to is MJ getting the tag, us drafting a DE (Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery, D. Jones, Hunt?), and this being a one-year tryout b/w Dunlap and MJ for the big contract next year. Remember, we chose one of our awesome CB tandem to keep, and I think that might be a precedent for how we handle the DEs. We can afford MJ's tag this year, as much of a luxury that is. But I don't see both getting the long contract, and I'm not certain MJ will just get it because his rookie contract was up first, though he has been more durable to this point.

At some point in the very near future, resigning our guys is going to become costly and we'll be forced to make some tough decisions. I can't see us keeping 3 pricey linemen, and this year we're almost guaranteed to have a shot at DE in the 1st or even at 37 if we luck out.

I know this topic has been discussed before and thanks for just reading this far, but does this read like a sound strategy you can see the FO using moving into FA/Draft?
I see MJ, Atkins, and Dunlap all getting locked up this offseason. Getting Dunlap now is going to be best for them as they are going to get him at a much better price. While he has flashed he has been inconsistent. I as well see Geathers and Gilberry back.

I see no precedent set in the JJ/Leon situation. They would have preferred to keep both and had the money to do it. There were variables at play in that situation that have no relevance to this situation.

I do not see Margus Hunt as becoming a pass rushing force at the next level.
This team will have zero chance at Ansah. He will go inside the top 15.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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I see MJ, Atkins, and Dunlap all getting locked up this offseason. Getting Dunlap now is going to be best for them as they are going to get him at a much better price. While he has flashed he has been inconsistent. I as well see Geathers and Gilberry back.

I see no precedent set in the JJ/Leon situation. They would have preferred to keep both and had the money to do it. There were variables at play in that situation that have no relevance to this situation.

I do not see Margus Hunt as becoming a pass rushing force at the next level.
This team will have zero chance at Ansah. He will go inside the top 15.
The fan in me wants it to happen. But I'm having a hard time seeing Geno (10+/yr), MJ (8+/year), and Dunlap (10+/yr), Andre's contract (7-8), all while preparing for Gresham (ok I can see him leaving, but 7-8/yr?), Dalton (8-10?), AJ (20+? Ok I'm kidding but he's not coming cheap..).

In a cap driven league, I don't see all these being on the books at the same time. I think staggering the deals will become the way to keep the club within the cap. Hard to imagine now, I know. But that day will come. Here's one solution, and it may actually net us a better pair (Okafor and MJ or Ansah and Dunlap or Montgomery and Dunlap, etc).
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:34 AM
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bengals Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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The fan in me wants it to happen. But I'm having a hard time seeing Geno (10+/yr), MJ (8+/year), and Dunlap (10+/yr), Andre's contract (7-8), all while preparing for Gresham (ok I can see him leaving, but 7-8/yr?), Dalton (8-10?), AJ (20+? Ok I'm kidding but he's not coming cheap..).

In a cap driven league, I don't see all these being on the books at the same time. I think staggering the deals will become the way to keep the club within the cap. Hard to imagine now, I know. But that day will come. Here's one solution, and it may actually net us a better pair (Okafor and MJ or Ansah and Dunlap or Montgomery and Dunlap, etc).
Even if Dunlap is not extended this season then it still does not make for a pressing concern in this draft. I have not looked ahead to 2014 but I would have to think there will be talent at DE coming out then as well.

With MJ back and in the realistic scenario that Gilberry and Geathers are back then the team could certainly look later in the draft at a guy like Carradine to develop as well.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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Originally Posted by TGISunday View Post
Over the next two years, we have to get Geno locked up. That's one, giant, payroll squeeze right there. We have MJ hitting FA this year, and Dunlap the following.

I just can't see the Bengals having three large contracts for DL at one time.

The scenario I've come to is MJ getting the tag, us drafting a DE (Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery, D. Jones, Hunt?), and this being a one-year tryout b/w Dunlap and MJ for the big contract next year. Remember, we chose one of our awesome CB tandem to keep, and I think that might be a precedent for how we handle the DEs. We can afford MJ's tag this year, as much of a luxury that is. But I don't see both getting the long contract, and I'm not certain MJ will just get it because his rookie contract was up first, though he has been more durable to this point.

At some point in the very near future, resigning our guys is going to become costly and we'll be forced to make some tough decisions. I can't see us keeping 3 pricey linemen, and this year we're almost guaranteed to have a shot at DE in the 1st or even at 37 if we luck out.

I know this topic has been discussed before and thanks for just reading this far, but does this read like a sound strategy you can see the FO using moving into FA/Draft?

EDIT: Fixed title avy, was showing a Seahawk lol.

I just hope MJ isn't the Geathers of 5 years ago, get ten sacks get paid, become a non pass rusher.
I read on the FP that Geathers could be a priority to resign,
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
I just hope MJ isn't the Geathers of 5 years ago, get ten sacks get paid, become a non pass rusher.
I read on the FP that Geathers could be a priority to resign,
That's what I'm saying.

He did well this year enough to get consideration for a long contract. We could give him 11 million reasons to stick around and compete with Dunlap for next years' big contract. Okafor might be an upgrade over Dunlap on the left, while Dunlap may be best on the right...why not give it a shot?
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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Originally Posted by TGISunday View Post
Over the next two years, we have to get Geno locked up. That's one, giant, payroll squeeze right there. We have MJ hitting FA this year, and Dunlap the following.

I just can't see the Bengals having three large contracts for DL at one time.

The scenario I've come to is MJ getting the tag, us drafting a DE (Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery, D. Jones, Hunt?), and this being a one-year tryout b/w Dunlap and MJ for the big contract next year. Remember, we chose one of our awesome CB tandem to keep, and I think that might be a precedent for how we handle the DEs. We can afford MJ's tag this year, as much of a luxury that is. But I don't see both getting the long contract, and I'm not certain MJ will just get it because his rookie contract was up first, though he has been more durable to this point.

At some point in the very near future, resigning our guys is going to become costly and we'll be forced to make some tough decisions. I can't see us keeping 3 pricey linemen, and this year we're almost guaranteed to have a shot at DE in the 1st or even at 37 if we luck out.

I know this topic has been discussed before and thanks for just reading this far, but does this read like a sound strategy you can see the FO using moving into FA/Draft?

EDIT: Fixed title avy, was showing a Seahawk lol.
They can draft DE next year....I just looked...we have only 10 FA listed for 2014....should be able to extend these guys and still be in very good shape.....2015 back up to like 20 or more...AJ, Dalton, Boling, Peko, Burfict, Gresham, and if Joiner, Lamur or Moch come around....that will be interesting....WOW
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

Not sure they will pay Dunlap what he will be asking, or what other teams offering.

See him get scolded by coaching staff more than any other player on defense.

Great talent, elite in fact. But has to put it all together and become more consistent.

Think Bengals will wait and see what next year brings for Carlos first.

But still do not see a DE early this year unless MJ gets away or it is one that will be moved to LB'er.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

Carlos Dunlop is a 2nd Tier DE right now, you want to give him $10 million? For what because he is on the field for more than 53% of the snaps this year or maybe you still think it's 2010. Now if he turns into a real starter all year long, 100% increase in sacks and 50% increase in tackles then the $10 million talk should begin for now $4-5 million.

Please show me a 40 tackle- 6 sack DE sign anything over 6 million a year.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

With Still and Thompson pick of last draft. I just don't see it.

Top picks will be LBs/Safeties on the defense side of things.

I anticipate it to be an offense centered draft however, from the playoff performance of this last season.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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With Still and Thompson pick of last draft. I just don't see it.

Top picks will be LBs/Safeties on the defense side of things.

I anticipate it to be an offense centered draft however, from the playoff performance of this last season.
What do defensive tackles have to do with drafting a DE?
We have 1 (valuable) DE under contract for 2013.
We stand to lose 2 starting DEs and 1 rotational DE to free agency.
We will not be able to keep all 3.

DE is a need.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

The team's MO has been to take someone that drops, but has huge potential with a few minor tweaks. This year I like William Gholston out of Michigan State in the 3rd round. His athleticism at his size says he should be a very good DE against the rush and the pass. With a little motivation from Zim and some technique from Hayes, he could be a diamond in the rough like MJ.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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The team's MO has been to take someone that drops, but has huge potential with a few minor tweaks. This year I like William Gholston out of Michigan State in the 3rd round. His athleticism at his size says he should be a very good DE against the rush and the pass. With a little motivation from Zim and some technique improvement from Hayes, he could be a diamond in the rough like MJ.
Do (did) you go to MSU?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:05 PM
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Do (did) you go to MSU?
Nope. Miami alum.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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What do defensive tackles have to do with drafting a DE?
We have 1 (valuable) DE under contract for 2013.
We stand to lose 2 starting DEs and 1 rotational DE to free agency.
We will not be able to keep all 3.

DE is a need.

I'm not saying it's not important to re-sign current roster players at DE or to even draft a DE.

Kirkpatrick, Still and Thompson were selected relatively high(defense)and we passed on RBs in those two draft positions.

Gilberry should be retained and Geathers may want to remain with the Bengals. Which they may do considering his stability.

MJ could be tagged.

We need safety help and LBs should take importance as well.

I should have included Dre Kirk in my original post. I was stating that D players selected in higher rounds from the previous draft... may be offset by Offense players this draft.

It may be a reality that Bengals may not retain their FA DEs, but they may also keep these guys together(at least another season). You just never know.

Optimism is underrated.

BPA is probably going to dictate anyway.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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That's what I'm saying.

He did well this year enough to get consideration for a long contract. We could give him 11 million reasons to stick around and compete with Dunlap for next years' big contract. Okafor might be an upgrade over Dunlap on the left, while Dunlap may be best on the right...why not give it a shot?
We got lots of cap room so I don't know what they do. Gilberry showed that DE's not named Dunlap or Johnson can produce when you have Geno. So how much is Johnson worth? Would like to have him back but don't want to get into a bidding war or pay him top 5 money.

With that said if MJ gets away that bumps DE up the draft board. I really don't want to have to draft for need with our first pick but if he isn't resigned then one of the first three would be DE you would think.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:05 PM
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bengals Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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We got lots of cap room so I don't know what they do. Gilberry showed that DE's not named Dunlap or Johnson can produce when you have Geno. So how much is Johnson worth? Would like to have him back but don't want to get into a bidding war or pay him top 5 money.

With that said if MJ gets away that bumps DE up the draft board. I really don't want to have to draft for need with our first pick but if he isn't resigned then one of the first three would be DE you would think.
People do not want to pay MJ but many are fine with paying Wallace Fitzgerald money. Baffling it is.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

It all depends on the tag... so who gets it?

Most likely... MJ or Andre?

If it's MJ then I don't think DE is a high draft pick.

If it's Andre then it's probably gonna be an offensive lineman. Right?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

DE only works for me in the first if he's a demon pass rusher. At the 21st, what are the chances of that?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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It all depends on the tag... so who gets it?

Most likely... MJ or Andre?

If it's MJ then I don't think DE is a high draft pick.

If it's Andre then it's probably gonna be an offensive lineman. Right?
Maybe nobody. 20/20 hindsight rears its ugly head and says coulda had that last year of the deal and didn't. Oh well.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:16 AM
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People do not want to pay MJ but many are fine with paying Wallace Fitzgerald money. Baffling it is.
Not sure why I'm wasting my time but,

MJ will cost 8-10 mil a year and had 52 tackles 11.5 sacks starting 16 games. Great season good for him.

Gillberry would cost 2-3 mill a year and had 24 tackles 6.5 sacks starting 0 games. That's a half a sack more than Dunlap, 3.5 more then Geathers.

But again, I would like to pay MJ just not overpay for a guy that had a contract year season. Similar to Geathers who had 10 sacks got paid and never came close again. In the last year of that contract we paid him 6.5 million this year for 30 tackles and 3 sacks.

Oh, and say/type his name right the guy played well for us, what are you a 2nd grader?
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:13 AM
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bengals Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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Not sure why I'm wasting my time but,

MJ will cost 8-10 mil a year and had 52 tackles 11.5 sacks starting 16 games. Great season good for him.

Gillberry would cost 2-3 mill a year and had 24 tackles 6.5 sacks starting 0 games. That's a half a sack more than Dunlap, 3.5 more then Geathers.

But again, I would like to pay MJ just not overpay for a guy that had a contract year season. Similar to Geathers who had 10 sacks got paid and never came close again. In the last year of that contract we paid him 6.5 million this year for 30 tackles and 3 sacks.

Oh, and say/type his name right the guy played well for us, what are you a 2nd grader?
Really you want to be a ******?

Let me help you out here since you could not decipher it - People are willing to pay Mike Wallace ........Larry Fitzgerald type money but do not want to pay MJ. There you got it now?

You may want to check my posting history on Gilberry before offering up insults. I may very well be his biggest fan on these boards.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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I just hope MJ isn't the Geathers of 5 years ago, get ten sacks get paid, become a non pass rusher.
I read on the FP that Geathers could be a priority to resign,

I don't really think it's fair to compare MJ and Geathers. When Geathers was getting is 10 sack season, he was a rotational guy, always had fresh legs. His drop off in production didn't happen until he was thrust into the primary role, after landing the big contract. MJ, on the other hand, has been the primary player at RE for a good while now. And, while he struggled to find an identity at first, while he was being yo-yo'd between LB/DE, he has really settled down into a high quality DE.


While I don't believe that the Bengals will be intentionally shopping for a DE, if an awesome talent should fall into their lap, they would be smart to take him. As has been mentioned many times around these boards, you can never go wrong with having "too much talent" at a premium position. All that talent breeds competition, and gives the team bargaining chips in trade negotiations.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:25 AM
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bengals Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

I have seen it mentioned that some do not think it is possible to bring back MJ, Gilberry, and Geathers. I guess I do not see the reasoning behind this unless they are grossly overinflating their values. Yeah MJ is going to command a rather sizable pay day and rightfully so. Outside of that I just do not see it.

Geathers will probably be paid decently but it will be no where near his last contract. I would have to think that him and his agent are both very aware that the numbers in expected production did not come close to matching the money. The Bengals have done the respectable thing and honored the terms. I see this working in their favor and I think Geathers would like to finish his career here.

I would think lessons were learned last season in the overvaluing of rotational production with the Rucker and Fanene deals. Gilberry will be offered a multi year deal by the team for a fair rotational price and I think they will get the deal done.

I would not even rule out an extension with Dunlap.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Don't be surprised with a DE early

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We got lots of cap room so I don't know what they do. Gilberry showed that DE's not named Dunlap or Johnson can produce when you have Geno. So how much is Johnson worth? Would like to have him back but don't want to get into a bidding war or pay him top 5 money.

With that said if MJ gets away that bumps DE up the draft board. I really don't want to have to draft for need with our first pick but if he isn't resigned then one of the first three would be DE you would think.
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People do not want to pay MJ but many are fine with paying Wallace Fitzgerald money. Baffling it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
Not sure why I'm wasting my time but,

MJ will cost 8-10 mil a year and had 52 tackles 11.5 sacks starting 16 games. Great season good for him.

Gillberry would cost 2-3 mill a year and had 24 tackles 6.5 sacks starting 0 games. That's a half a sack more than Dunlap, 3.5 more then Geathers.

But again, I would like to pay MJ just not overpay for a guy that had a contract year season. Similar to Geathers who had 10 sacks got paid and never came close again. In the last year of that contract we paid him 6.5 million this year for 30 tackles and 3 sacks.

Oh, and say/type his name right the guy played well for us, what are you a 2nd grader?
Quote:
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Really you want to be a ******?

Let me help you out here since you could not decipher it - People are willing to pay Mike Wallace ........Larry Fitzgerald type money but do not want to pay MJ. There you got it now?

You may want to check my posting history on Gilberry before offering up insults. I may very well be his biggest fan on these boards.

I will say that I didn't understand your post.

"People do not want to pay MJ but many are fine with paying Wallace Fitzgerald money. Baffling it is"

Because I never said anything about Mike Wallace and have never said to sign him instead of MJ, check the post history.

My insulting comments were uncalled for, my appologies. They were build up from reading all your other posts on these boards. You seem to get into it with about everyone, I don't get it, why are you so sad inside?

Maybe these boards are your thearpy, and calling people ******** and other names, helps you get through the day. Well we're were here for you, so chin up tiger your going to make it.

Life's a garden, dig it.
- Joe Dirt
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