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  #51  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:26 PM
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bengals Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
"But Newman exceeded expectations and was the 19th-ranked corner by Pro Football Focus. "
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/2/7/...e-sign-and-who

I have read that Pacman was ranked even better than Newman.
I hope this is a joke because I hardly see 19th best as premier.
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  #52  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

If Rhodes is the best player there at 21 then go with it. I still think he would be a great safety.
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Last edited by D's Nuts and Bolts; 02-08-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
Ghee's progression to what, making it to a game?

Oh and what about Moch we don't want to draft a LB might stop his "progression" as well. Come on Beserk.

Kirk I understand but I wouldn't worry about Prater, there is still room for a PS corner.

If Rhodes is the best player there at 21 then go with it. I still think he would be a great safety.
This is tongue-in-cheek. He already covered this lol.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:05 PM
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I hope this is a joke because I hardly see 19th best as premier.
He's still way above average.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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He's still way above average.
Newman had a good year.

Wouldn't let any CB we have on the roster (including Hall) keep me from getting a great CB in the draft. Is Rhodes a great CB? I don't know, but if the Bengals took him, I'd not argue.
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  #56  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by TGISunday View Post
This is tongue-in-cheek. He already covered this lol.
I went back I get it, haha. My fault.
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  #57  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

I just don't see it. If he has a super combine then sure. I know we are aging at CB and could use another player. It makes sense. The only need we really have, where a 1st round pick might be debatable, is at running back. Besides that, I expect there to be other choices at the other need areas. If I'm picking CB at that point, hopefully the phone is ringing also to trade down. I'm just not looking for a CB right away in round one.
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  #58  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

Rhodes would not be moved to safety.
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  #59  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:13 AM
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bengals Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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I just don't see it. If he has a super combine then sure. I know we are aging at CB and could use another player. It makes sense. The only need we really have, where a 1st round pick might be debatable, is at running back. Besides that, I expect there to be other choices at the other need areas. If I'm picking CB at that point, hopefully the phone is ringing also to trade down. I'm just not looking for a CB right away in round one.
You could use this same point for many positions. I have seen DE mentioned. Well it is very likely that we will resign MJ, Gilberry, and Geathers. As well we could also extend Dunlap. There is Moch who worked almost primarily as DE in camp. We still have Evans on the PS and Devon Still can play end in situations. Everyone of these guys are younger than Jones and Newman.

As well, we do have a history of injury at the CB position. You never really have more than two DEs on the field at one time. You very often are looking at having more than two corners on the field.

OG has been mentioned. If we got any younger at guard we would have to have chaperones travel with them. Not to mention, both of these guys had very good seasons.

OLB could be possible but it absolutely would have to be a guy that dropped. Usually when a guy is dropping you have to wonder why .....I. E. Rey. I feel we have a better MLB candidate in Burfict then you will get in the draft.

WR ...only if Patterson was there.
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  #60  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:15 AM
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bengals Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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He's still way above average.
And above average can be improved upon.
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  #61  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
And above average can be improved upon.
Well, yeah. Namely with the sunk cost picked at 18 last year.

I wish Rhodes came out last year...woulda picked him over Kirk then too. Oh well!
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Rhodes would not be moved to safety.

But he could, that is what makes him more valuable in my opinion. Similar to Malcom Jenkins but better.


Where does he fit in the NFL?

Rhodes has certainly shown he has the cover skills to play corner at the next level. Most believe this is where he will play, but with his size Rhodes also has the ability to play strong safety. Ultimately, we believe Rhodes will be an NFL cornerback.
http://floridastate.rivals.com/barri...&tid=&mid=&rid=

Given his size and strong play against the run, Rhodes could also be a candidate to move to free safety at the next level. ESPN Insider had the following scouting report on his coverage skills:
Shows good range and generally limits production after the catch. Capable of covering deep half if moved to safety.

His size and coverage skills make him a valuable asset, and the possibility he could switch to safety makes him a versatile prospect.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ters-nfl-draft
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  #63  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
You could use this same point for many positions. I have seen DE mentioned. Well it is very likely that we will resign MJ, Gilberry, and Geathers. As well we could also extend Dunlap. There is Moch who worked almost primarily as DE in camp. We still have Evans on the PS and Devon Still can play end in situations. Everyone of these guys are younger than Jones and Newman.

As well, we do have a history of injury at the CB position. You never really have more than two DEs on the field at one time. You very often are looking at having more than two corners on the field.

OG has been mentioned. If we got any younger at guard we would have to have chaperones travel with them. Not to mention, both of these guys had very good seasons.

OLB could be possible but it absolutely would have to be a guy that dropped. Usually when a guy is dropping you have to wonder why .....I. E. Rey. I feel we have a better MLB candidate in Burfict then you will get in the draft.

WR ...only if Patterson was there.

The bold area, when talking about the guard position only to respond like this when talking about the CB position.

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
And above average can be improved upon.
Well "having really a good season" can be improved upon. Boling is good but Warmack is better and if he is there then you would have to take him over Rhodes, IMHO.

I would agree that the best pick here is to trade out of it for more picks. If possible trade back twice.

Rhodes is good but depending on who you ask is a 1 or 2nd round selection. Milliner, Banks (who may fall do to injury concerns), Trufant are all possibilities. Well maybe not Milliner, but stranger things have happened and we still have the combine and pro days.

IF we were going for CB in round one and Banks, Trufant and Rhodes are all there, then I would hope that a team is wanting to trade back like we did last year when DeCastro was still on the board with Zietler and Glenn. We were able to trade back. Pick up the best OG (so far) in the draft and get an extra 3rd rounder which we used for DLine Depth.

I guess for me it would be:
Warmack > Patterson > B. Jones > Trade > Vaccaro > Te'o > Ogletree > Banks > Trufant / Rhodes.

I am sure one or even surprisingly all of these guys are there for our 1st pick and the way it stands right now this is how I would have my board set up.
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  #64  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Offense. Offense. Offense.

That's what we're going to be picking.
I agree to disagree here. We can't let the defense fall by the waste side just cause our offense struggled, and just start reaching for players on offense, which is exactly what we would do by picking offense in the first round. I think we are a Safety, a Lineback, and a CB away from being the top defense in the league. We were very good this past year, but a better Safety, Linebacker (with Howard and Vontaze), and CB will make us easily best defense in the league!!!!! (In my opinion)

I think our offensive needs are needs, but the talent from 1st-4th at RB is very close in comparasion so no need to reach for a RB with first pick. Using a high pick at WR would be dumb cause there is no WR this year that will come in year one and produce any better than Marvin Jones or Sanu did this past year. Lastly is center, which we aren't going to use a first on a center.......(must lock up Andre Smith or else we will be using a first rd pick to backfill him)

My point is, as much of a need as offensive positions are for us, i think 2 of our first 3 picks will be defense and the only offensive playaer will be a second round Running Back.
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  #65  
Old 02-09-2013, 05:13 PM
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bengals Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by Cincy's Best View Post
The bold area, when talking about the guard position only to respond like this when talking about the CB position.



Well "having really a good season" can be improved upon. Boling is good but Warmack is better and if he is there then you would have to take him over Rhodes, IMHO.

I would agree that the best pick here is to trade out of it for more picks. If possible trade back twice.

Rhodes is good but depending on who you ask is a 1 or 2nd round selection. Milliner, Banks (who may fall do to injury concerns), Trufant are all possibilities. Well maybe not Milliner, but stranger things have happened and we still have the combine and pro days.

IF we were going for CB in round one and Banks, Trufant and Rhodes are all there, then I would hope that a team is wanting to trade back like we did last year when DeCastro was still on the board with Zietler and Glenn. We were able to trade back. Pick up the best OG (so far) in the draft and get an extra 3rd rounder which we used for DLine Depth.

I guess for me it would be:
Warmack > Patterson > B. Jones > Trade > Vaccaro > Te'o > Ogletree > Banks > Trufant / Rhodes.

I am sure one or even surprisingly all of these guys are there for our 1st pick and the way it stands right now this is how I would have my board set up.
Warmack more than likely will not make it out of the top 10 so ridiculous to even mention him in the conversation. Now if you said Cooper it would add validity to your point.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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I hope this is a joke because I hardly see 19th best as premier.
64 "starting" corners in the NFL.
more when you factor most teams "start" in their nickle formations.

He was 19/64.
That's pretty damn good.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Show me he isnt.
That's what I figured, you got nothing but the "size and one guy said he might end up as the best CB when its all said and done" argument, throw in a few vague comments like "he can run." or "he is physical." and thats all you have been saying, just ask you to provide a little more as to why you think he is the best value at 21 considering most experts have the guy going after we pick.

I sit here and gave you an example of players that would potentially be of equal or greater value but the only response you could muster was pointing out how 2 of those guys shouldn't be on that list. I've shown you why I feel he isn't the best value at 21 and other players who would be better many of which are positions of need and ask you to explain why he is the best value at 21 and you respond with "Show me he isnt."

I tried to give you an opportunity to show me why I should see it your way and why he is the best value at 21 but you decided you would just respond with your above quote so whatever.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:03 PM
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bengals Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by BobJones4980 View Post
So which CB is coming in and playing over Hall, Kirk, Newman or maybe even Pacman in there first year? Hell even a healthy Allen might be fighting for playing time this year so I really don't understand the big need for a CB.

Also you claim its value but Rhodes is rated as a 1-2 guy in a lot of places so the possibility he is the best value is debatable. If we brought back Newman and Pacman, didn't cut Allen I would be willing to bet a 1st round WR would get more playing time than a 1st round CB barring injury.

I am a fan of Rhodes but I just don't see CB being a huge need right now unless we decide to cut Allen and not resign Pacman or Newman but since I see all three of those guys being here next year I think were good at CB for atleast another year.

If you want a CB and dont like Pacman, Newman and Allen then find a guy in FA. Cut Allen sign either Pacman or Newman back and go and get Rodgers - Cromartie or Derek Cox. Other than that I think CB can wait until round 3 or later this year.
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Frankly I could see Rhodes starting over any CB you mentioned other than Hall. Anything else? You act as if Adam Jones and Newman are considered premier CBs in the NFL.
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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
Weather we need a CB or not, if Rhodes is the BPA at 21 you take him. There is nothing at all wrong with having an overload of players that all can play, at a premium position. (yep, that was a tie-in from another thread...)

Having that "overload of talent" gives the team bargaining chips to acquire players they might need from other teams.
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Im not acting as if Jones and Newman are premier CBs but they are solid players for us along with Kirk being a 1st round pick from last year that they obviously feel will be a good player, throw in Allen who was a very solid CB in Houston and was held back by injuries here and I think our CBs are alot more solid than other positions such as SS, WLB, SLB, RB, WR. Some would even argue DE and OC would be ahead of CB this year.

I also don't really see the value here, 21 would be a reasonable spot for Rhodes but not great value and not a top need. I would rather fill more pressing needs and grab a CB that falls in 3-4 to groom and maybe grab one early next year.
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Not great value for Rhodes? Some are saying he could end up the best CB to come out of this class. However you would see a value in passing on the best player available?

So at WLB, SLB, S, and RB what players at those positions offer a higher value than Rhodes? Ogletree appears at this point to be off the board. Vacarro should be off the board, there is not a RB in this draft projecting this high. The only WR I could see using the selection on would be Patterson and he will be long gone.

So who do you see as better player available if indeed Rhodes is there at 21?
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Some are saying he could end up the best CB in this class while some have him as the 6th best CB in the draft, it all depends on who your asking, right now the guy is rated late first early second. Its just my opinion taking a guy where he is slated or maybe even a little early isn't considered great value.

Better value I could see Jarvis Jones(Falling), Alec Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Ezekiel Ansah, Alex Okafor, Keenan Allen, Cordarrelle Patterson, If Vaccaro happened to be around he would be on that list also, some want an OG and a guy like Cooper would be better value if we ignore need. A few of those guys are all over the place in rankings atm but I could see them all being better picks than Rhodes come draft day.
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Ansah? Not sure what or who's rankings you are looking at. Ansah will not make it to the second half of the first round. Very few rankings if any have Arthur Brown in the first round.
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Originally Posted by BobJones4980 View Post
So you pick 2 guys out of 9 to complain about and then ignore the rest? Yea Ansah most likely wont be there but is that all you got out of the entire reply?

Why is it you feel Rhodes is the best value at 21? Its not a huge need but even if it was its not great value like you claim considering most have him late first early second. There should be good DE's, OLB's , WR's and potentially S or OG that would be just as good value wise and fit a need. Hell if were going straight BPA we could probably look at some DT's and TE's that would probably be of better or equal value to Rhodes so why not take one of them?

You gotta give me more than his size and some claim that he might be the best CB in the draft when its all said and done to show me he would be BPA.
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Originally Posted by McC View Post
If you draft a CB in the first it's because the value is too good to pass up. It's not a right now pick, for sure, unless he walks right in like Revis and then nobody will have a problem with the pick and having a stable of good DB's.

You're looking who's there and you ask yourself who's the best player for our team. Then you see how it fits need. If value and need don't intersect, I believe value and the quality of the player trump need in the first round.

You can pay more attention to need after the first. You gotta hit that first pick, obviously, and the best way to do that is to take the best player available. Unless you're absolutely loaded at the position, if he's better than the guy in that spot now, then you've just gotten better.
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I get that but I don't think that's the case here, I don't really see how he would be BPA at this point. Rhodes is a guy slated to go around or after our pick, taking him at 21 would be reasonable but to say he would be BPA or great value is a stretch.

I also have to disagree with you here, sure BPA is great but you have to include need in the equation even in the first round, not to mention there is so much room for interpretation for who is the BPA so late in round 1 but I consider it to be guys who fall on draft day not a guy that was slated to go after our pick.
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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Show me he isnt.
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Originally Posted by BobJones4980 View Post
That's what I figured, you got nothing but the "size and one guy said he might end up as the best CB when its all said and done" argument, throw in a few vague comments like "he can run." or "he is physical." and thats all you have been saying, just ask you to provide a little more as to why you think he is the best value at 21 considering most experts have the guy going after we pick.

I sit here and gave you an example of players that would potentially be of equal or greater value but the only response you could muster was pointing out how 2 of those guys shouldn't be on that list. I've shown you why I feel he isn't the best value at 21 and other players who would be better many of which are positions of need and ask you to explain why he is the best value at 21 and you respond with "Show me he isnt."

I tried to give you an opportunity to show me why I should see it your way and why he is the best value at 21 but you decided you would just respond with your above quote so whatever.
Right there is the entire discussion. At NO point did you offer anything but names. You gave nothing with the names as reasoning why they were a better player available or what more they added in value than Rhodes. I merely responded likewise. Then you act as if you won something.

You came in to counter a point yet you countered without data only some names.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Warmack more than likely will not make it out of the top 10 so ridiculous to even mention him in the conversation. Now if you said Cooper it would add validity to your point.
Like DeCastro was supposed to go in the top 10 or top 15 last year, the best guard since Hutchinson? We had 2 chances to get him and passed both times. Now hindsight says we made the better choice, as of right now.

Guys rise and fall all of the time. It isn't crazy to think that Warmack will be there are 21, considering that some teams will reach for a QB or a DE or OT or make stupid decisions like the Browns (think of how good they would have been by selecting DeCastro or Zeitler with their 2nd 1st round pick, and then getting Russel Wilson in round 2). I am not saying that Warmack will be there but you are wrong to say it is ridiculous to even mention him as a possibility.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Right there is the entire discussion. At NO point did you offer anything but names. You gave nothing with the names as reasoning why they were a better player available or what more they added in value than Rhodes. I merely responded likewise. Then you act as if you won something.

You came in to counter a point yet you countered without data only some names.
So giving names and positions that were rated around or higher than Rhodes in most places isn't enough data for you? Sorry I didn't realize I had to post a link to every single draft prospect rankings on the internet to show you all of the players rated similar or higher than Rhodes for you to understand it.

I didn't act like I've won anything, I mean what is there to win anyway some pointless argument? I just simply ask you why Rhodes is the best value at 21, you get defensive and respond with "Show me he isnt." Which I did, whether you acknowledge that or not, when I gave you a list of players that are rated in the same area as Rhodes or even higher and ask why he is better value than those players. Add to that quite a few of those players fit a bigger need than CB, clearly if you have 2 players rated similarly you take the need.

Your entire argument is Rhodes provides such superior value to all other players at 21 and I simply ask you why that was the case when he is a late 1st early 2nd rated player and there are so many other similarly rated guys, some of which are bigger needs than CB. I just don't think im being unreasonable when I ask you to back up your opinion.

Last edited by BobJones4980; 02-09-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by Carolinabengalfanguy View Post
We could always move a cornerback to the Safety position.

I haven't looked too much into Xavier Rhodes as I haven't perceived CB as an early draft need, but it sounds like he has good size to be a Safety I just wonder if he has the physicality.

I really think Dre Kirkpatrick could move over to Safety, because he was one of the more physical CB's in last years draft, but his inability to stay healthy his rookie season gives me concerns about him playing a more physical role.

So I mean if we feel Dre can move to S or a good CB like Rhodes could move to S I wouldn't be against the idea of taking a CB early because S is a top 3 need, but if we plan to keep them both at CB I'd feel we should look elsewhere. Still BPA is never a bad strategy I won't hate it, but I'll think we could have strengthened other positions.

As far as WR's go I personally like Hopkins the most. He's a beast and a very clutch receiver as we saw multiple times this year. Would make a great #2 next to AJ. I'd probably pass (wouldn't be mad at all) at #21, but at #37 I'd be ecstatic to grab him.

You need to look him up. No way would you move this guy to safety. You could, but he's one of the best CBs I've seen in a long time. Not flashy, lke Neon Deion, just tough as freaking nails!

We do have bigger needs, but he's good enough, I'd take him and deal with those needs later. I just doubt he's there at 21.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
Interesting that you mention Deandre Hopkins, as Albert Breer of NFL.com has him mocked to Bengals in 1st.
Smart choice. If Patterson is gone, Hopkins would be a great pick for us.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

Spent a little time looking around at various ranking lists. Aside from Joeckel, nobody really agrees on anything, sometimes not even on what positions players should or will play.

Since I don't know any of these rankers personally and have no desire to go back and check their past predictions, I have no idea who to believe.

As to Rhodes, I've seen him anywhere from the mid teens to out of the first round. I like the size. Seems like it could be the wave of the future--tall CB's to cover the tall receivers and fast QB's with cannon arms who can run on your ***.

No way I see us going into the draft thinking CB in the first round. Taking Rhodes or one of the other CB's in the first only happens because he's there and you just can't pass on him.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:57 AM
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bengals Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

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Originally Posted by BobJones4980 View Post
So giving names and positions that were rated around or higher than Rhodes in most places isn't enough data for you? Sorry I didn't realize I had to post a link to every single draft prospect rankings on the internet to show you all of the players rated similar or higher than Rhodes for you to understand it.

I didn't act like I've won anything, I mean what is there to win anyway some pointless argument? I just simply ask you why Rhodes is the best value at 21, you get defensive and respond with "Show me he isnt." Which I did, whether you acknowledge that or not, when I gave you a list of players that are rated in the same area as Rhodes or even higher and ask why he is better value than those players. Add to that quite a few of those players fit a bigger need than CB, clearly if you have 2 players rated similarly you take the need.

Your entire argument is Rhodes provides such superior value to all other players at 21 and I simply ask you why that was the case when he is a late 1st early 2nd rated player and there are so many other similarly rated guys, some of which are bigger needs than CB. I just don't think im being unreasonable when I ask you to back up your opinion.
Elite size, excellent cover skills, true shutdown potential-great example is his matchup with Malcolm Floyd in bowl game. Floyd could only manage 3 receptions for 22 yards while matched up against Rhodes. Against Clemson this year the only big gains by Hopkins came from blown coverage by the safeties when they left Rhodes hung out. There is tape to confirm this.

He is drawing comparisons to Ladarius Webb of the Ravens. He has outstanding coaching from Stoops. He has great range and closing skills. Great leaper that high points the ball.

Weakness would be covering the slot position. Sometimes will loose smaller quicker receivers from the slot position. Mixed reviews in run support. Like many reports some call him excellent in run support some call him average. I have seen nothing on his film that makes me view his run support as a weakness. Could he improve it certainly. Have seen him go for an occasional arm tackle but this is not uncommon.

He has two things that cannot be coached-size and speed. Does not have elite speed but a mid to high 4.4 would not shock me.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Xavier Rhodes with our 1st pick?

check out these highlights of Rhodes I put together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jdhu0wefeA
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