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Old 02-10-2013, 10:24 AM
Kaptkurt Kaptkurt is offline
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Default Is MJ worth the money?

If we want to retain Micheal Johnson, It's gonna cost us a boatload of cash. Is he worth it?
I think he's a product of a great DL. We paid Geathers and he didn't prove to be worth the $ we paid him but having him on the DL has made others better. Atkins is the lynchpin and like we did a couple years ago when we chose Hall over JJ (which helped net more draft picksto help bolster or DL) we might have to make these same decisions again when it comes to MJ Dunlap, Atkins and Geathers. and Gilberry. and DAMN IT'S SO MUCH FUN BEING A BENGAL FAN AND TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH TALENT WE HAVE INSTEAD OF THE LACK OF TALENT!!!!
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

I think MJ will stay unless some team throws a ridiculous amount of money at him. I don't really see that but they gave Frostee a pretty big payday, so never say never.

He wants to be here and his stats aren't mega deal stats. But on the other hand, he has gotten better every year. I believe we still haven't seen his best yet, so somebody might be willing to fork out a bundle for the thought of what he could become.

If he does stay here, it'll be with a fair and reasonable deal and he will live up to it. If he leaves, it'll be with a huge contract and who knows if he'll live up to that?
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:47 AM
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bengals Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Do not see the Geathers and MJ situations as comparable. They are completely different players in regard to skillset and attributes.

The relative part would be worth what? Is he worth a sizeable pay day? Yes IMO he is. Is he highest paid DE in the league worth it? I do not believe so and that is not meant negatively to MJ. I think he is an outstanding young player and I feel there is an awful good chance to find middle ground and get a deal done.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

He stays and yes, he's worth the money
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:00 PM
ImpactPlaya ImpactPlaya is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Yes yes yes.

Does anyone recall who was the last Bengals RDE to get 10 sacks or more in a season?
I think it was Eddie Edwards going back 30 years.

So when you can the luxury of a RDE who can reach double digit sacks,you do all you can
to retain him.

Plus he wants to be a Bengal. How refreshing.
some on these boards act like we should just let MJ walk cause its so easy to find his replacement
in the 2013 Draft.

I don't know if Sam Montgomery of LSU can even reach 7 sacks in his rookie year.
why create another draft need by letting a sure thing walk?

MJ has gotten better year after year. Lets not forget the failed experiment that Lewis attempted to move him OLB

In 2013 he posted sacks in 9 of 16 games. He had 5 alone vs the AFC North.
Plus he's getting better at setting the edge. He played with alot more strength last year.
he didn't get pushed back so much.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

He is definitely worth the money. Pass rushers are hard to come by, which is why they get paid so much, and they usually excel within the system they know best. Signing another FA is risky, and we would have to wait for a draft pick to develop. He also seems like a good guy in the locker room and community. Don't underestimate the value of having locker room chemistry and respected veterans on the team.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpactPlaya View Post
Yes yes yes.

Does anyone recall who was the last Bengals RDE to get 10 sacks or more in a season?
I think it was Eddie Edwards going back 30 years.

So when you can the luxury of a RDE who can reach double digit sacks,you do all you can
to retain him.

Plus he wants to be a Bengal. How refreshing.
some on these boards act like we should just let MJ walk cause its so easy to find his replacement
in the 2013 Draft.

I don't know if Sam Montgomery of LSU can even reach 7 sacks in his rookie year.
why create another draft need by letting a sure thing walk?

MJ has gotten better year after year. Lets not forget the failed experiment that Lewis attempted to move him OLB

In 2013 he posted sacks in 9 of 16 games. He had 5 alone vs the AFC North.
Plus he's getting better at setting the edge. He played with alot more strength last year.
he didn't get pushed back so much.
Great point about MJ being a right DE who goes against the other team's top left tackle (tackle). It is much more impressive when that is taken into account.

Yes, he will be a Bengal via franchise tag or big contract in my humble opinion. He does not deserve top 5 RE money, but does deserve top 8 to 10 money in my opinion. The man take almost 80% of our defensive snaps so while most of our DL rotates in and out, MJ stays on the field most of the time.
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Last edited by Luvnit2; 02-10-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

yes he is worth the money especially since we are so far under the cap what else is mike brown going to do buy another benz
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:08 PM
Bull Durham Bull Durham is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Your comment about him being a product of a great D-Line makes no sense. Who do you think makes up that "great" D-Line. MJ plays more snaps than anyone else.

Maybe you can claim a linebacker is a product of a great defensive line, or a cornerback is a product of that. But you can't claim that one of he primary players that makes the defensive line great is a product of that.

Although I totally disagree that the defensive line is "great." They're good, but far from great.

And I don't know why you thin Geathers was overpaid. His salary was pretty a average for a starting DE. I don't know where this much started thg he was making tons of money.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
Your comment about him being a product of a great D-Line makes no sense. Who do you think makes up that "great" D-Line. MJ plays more snaps than anyone else.

Maybe you can claim a linebacker is a product of a great defensive line, or a cornerback is a product of that. But you can't claim that one of he primary players that makes the defensive line great is a product of that.

Although I totally disagree that the defensive line is "great." They're good, but far from great.

And I don't know why you thin Geathers was overpaid. His salary was pretty a average for a starting DE. I don't know where this much started thg he was making tons of money.
He did make 6 million in 2012 and only took closer to 50% of the defensive snaps than 60%. That is a lot for what would be considered situational starter or D-Lineman.

Having said that, I think Geathers is under rated as a run defender and a guy that stays in his gaps. He is not a great pass rusher, both most DL are not. He is a hybrid DE and DT for a reason.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:00 PM
chasf316 chasf316 is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Ok...I see replies to this post question as "yes, he's worth the money." However, I don't see anywhere, what or how much "money" that is...

It's possible that the tag will be used on either MJ or Andre...

If the tag is used on MJ, it will mean nearly 11 million for the upcoming season...http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...-cap-near-121m... is he worth that? IMO, no, not that much...remember, 5 of his sacks came against the Redskins(3) opposite a highly over-matched rookie LG playing his first snaps at LT, while MJ's final 2 sacks came against Raven reserve linemen in the regular season's finale...leaving 6.5 sacks over 14 games, not bad numbers, but not worth top-tier money.

Some of us remember the contract Geathers received after his 10 sack season, and while he has been steady and somewhat under-rated, many will argue that his play wasn't worth the money he was paid following the 2006 season...MJ's progression strikes a similar history...yes, Geathers and MJ play opposite ends, but I'm offering the comparison as fodder for over-paying.

Before you pounce, I like MJ...think he may be a steady DE, but let's look at the evolution of the position...it's becoming a spot where interchangeable players can be filled into the position...look at the Giants and how quickly they turnover players at DE. ML's practice of revolving players depicts his agreement with this theory.

Re-sign MJ, but at a reasonable price...maybe 3yrs @ 5-6mil per with reasonable front end bonus...tagging him for 11 million and letting him walk next year without compensation is counterproductive.

Last edited by chasf316; 02-10-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:03 PM
ImpactPlaya ImpactPlaya is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Ask Joe Thomas of the Browns how good MJ is.
MJ is the one RDE who gives Thomas a battle because of MJs big wingspan and MJs ability
to kept Thomas off balance and unable to get a good base.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2013, 03:35 PM
chasf316 chasf316 is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpactPlaya View Post
Ask Joe Thomas of the Browns how good MJ is.
MJ is the one RDE who gives Thomas a battle because of MJs big wingspan and MJs ability
to kept Thomas off balance and unable to get a good base.
Joe Thomas' biggest battle is that he's been playing in front of indecisive, inexperienced, and inept QBs. MJ did have 1 sack in 2 games vs. Browns in 2012
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Yes. Great in the run game (Needs to stop sucking against reverses, however), and spent his first full year at DE and got 10+ sacks, to go along with a good amount of pressures. He also keeps a pretty disciplined pass rush when needed, so he is definitely worth the money
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:19 PM
Guru50 Guru50 is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

How much is "THE MONEY"?
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Let him go & draft margus hunt with our 2A pick. Mj is average.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Git-R-Done ! Pay the man !

Think MJ is intelligent and likes it here enough that we will sign him without the using franchise tag as long as we do not low ball him and treat him fairly.

Saving the tag for Andre.

If not ? It only puts behind in filling the holes this year. Believe all can be filled as long as a major piece is not let go.

MJ qualifies as a major piece in my book. Great character guy as well.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

For anyone to say that he's not worth it needs to explain to me why. And if that explanation is to draft a DE in round 1 and pay less money, get out of my face.

Cha-Ching
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasf316 View Post
Ok...I see replies to this post question as "yes, he's worth the money." However, I don't see anywhere, what or how much "money" that is...

It's possible that the tag will be used on either MJ or Andre...

If the tag is used on MJ, it will mean nearly 11 million for the upcoming season...http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...-cap-near-121m... is he worth that? IMO, no, not that much...remember, 5 of his sacks came against the Redskins(3) opposite a highly over-matched rookie LG playing his first snaps at LT, while MJ's final 2 sacks came against Raven reserve linemen in the regular season's finale...leaving 6.5 sacks over 14 games, not bad numbers, but not worth top-tier money.

Some of us remember the contract Geathers received after his 10 sack season, and while he has been steady and somewhat under-rated, many will argue that his play wasn't worth the money he was paid following the 2006 season...MJ's progression strikes a similar history...yes, Geathers and MJ play opposite ends, but I'm offering the comparison as fodder for over-paying.

Before you pounce, I like MJ...think he may be a steady DE, but let's look at the evolution of the position...it's becoming a spot where interchangeable players can be filled into the position...look at the Giants and how quickly they turnover players at DE. ML's practice of revolving players depicts his agreement with this theory.

Re-sign MJ, but at a reasonable price...maybe 3yrs @ 5-6mil per with reasonable front end bonus...tagging him for 11 million and letting him walk next year without compensation is counterproductive.
First Oof all, Jordan Black is like a 9 year veteran. Secondly, he's a tackle .

And MJ got 2 sacks on Bryant McKinnie. You know, the guy who gave up no sacks to JSmith or Aldon Smith in the Super Bowl.

Stop downplaying success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpactPlaya View Post
Ask Joe Thomas of the Browns how good MJ is.
MJ is the one RDE who gives Thomas a battle because of MJs big wingspan and MJs ability
to kept Thomas off balance and unable to get a good base.
His sack was a trip that Sweden fell into.

Thomas does nothing less than dominate MJ, game in, game out.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:59 PM
degolfisfun degolfisfun is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

No question he will get a nice and much-deserved payday. The question the Bengals have to answer is how much is "nice"?

Let's say there are 65 DE's in the league. Where does MJ rank? I think we know he is not top 10 or he would be Pro Bowl or very close to it. Which he was not. But is he Top 15 or Top 20? Quite possibly and then he deserves Top 15 money and probably for 4 years. I don't what this is but probably $6-7 M a year or $25-30 M total.

Another perspective: this is probably similar money as for a Top 15-ish RB; i.e. somebody like Reggie Bush. Are you listening? Where do you think the money would be best spent? Carlos, Gilberry, Geathers, and Still as DEs with Bush in the backfield? Is that an upgrade?
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:22 PM
chasf316 chasf316 is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

you said: [quote=Truck_1_0_1_;2805731]First of all, Jordan Black is like a 9 year veteran. Secondly, he's a tackle .

you're incorrect...maybe you remember that Black was hurt on the 2nd play from scrimmage, so it was Lichtensteiger playing LT and was handed his lunch to him by MJ.

and the Super Bowl that I watched saw a injured (playing @ 80%) Justin Smith across from McKinnie...Aldon was primarily across from the RT and in front of Bowman...

and McKinnie is no Jonathan Ogden.

besides all that...do they pay MJ and if so, how much?

Last edited by chasf316; 02-10-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:26 PM
chasf316 chasf316 is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natikid873 View Post
For anyone to say that he's not worth it needs to explain to me why. And if that explanation is to draft a DE in round 1 and pay less money, get out of my face.

Cha-Ching
If you read my posts, you'd see that I did explain why the Bengals should sign him, BUT to no more than 5-6 mil for 3yrs...and I explained in clear detail why...which in no way mentioned drafting a DE...my question to you...how much is he worth?

Last edited by chasf316; 02-10-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:37 PM
Samhain Samhain is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

I think he is. He's still very young and has all of the physical tools. After 2012, he also has some skins on the wall as far as the sack number. In my opinion, he has yet to reach his ceiling.

At best, I'd give him a long term deal, at worst a franchise tag. The tag would give the club another year to be convinced of his worthiness. Either way, I'd be good with it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:42 PM
chasf316 chasf316 is offline
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

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Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
I think he is. He's still very young and has all of the physical tools. After 2012, he also has some skins on the wall as far as the sack number. In my opinion, he has yet to reach his ceiling.

At best, I'd give him a long term deal, at worst a franchise tag. The tag would give the club another year to be convinced of his worthiness. Either way, I'd be good with it.
that tag is gonna cost around 11 million.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Is MJ worth the money?

If Johnson played for another team, fans on his board would be clamoring for us to sign a guy like him and complaining that the bengals never go after impact free agents like MJ in the prime of their careers.
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