OSU's final pre-combine Mock

[BengalBuckeye]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Most project the Bengals to re-sign Pacman and possibly Newman.

I don't see how/where Rhodes would ever make it on the field in 2013.

It seems to me that Rhodes would be the 5th best CB on the team. Or at least the 5th "trusted" CB on the team.

Hall/Pacman/Newman/Dre Kirk/Rhodes/Prater or Ghee

IMO, if Rhodes is the BPA at 21, then trade back or take a different player.

seriously you put Dre there seeing how he didn't see much of the field. Rhodes would be the guy you put out there on the big physical wr's like Boldin or Johnson. He is physical at the line of scrimmage to stop those quick slants. If he is the BPA I would take him over reaching for someone else.

[BengalBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

If we sit on our hands in free agency and don't sign anybody, I would be a little miffed if the draft went down like this.

Our offense has struggled mightily this year against good teams. I don't see much help on that side of the ball. It also leaves a little bit to be desired on the LB side of things if our roster stays as is since we only have 1 returning starter at LB.

I like the players that you picked, but as you stated in your preamble, if nothing unusual happens in free agency we will be left with some major unfilled holes at WR and LB.

The only ones who think receiver is a hole that needs filled are on this board. Give it a rest already. He also addressed the backer position with Hodges.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I agree on the RB in the 1st round. WTS, RB is such a need, I wouldn't be horribly upset if the Bengals got "their" guy in the 1st.

My dream players would be Jarvis Jones & Werner.
My first tier players would be Vaccaro or Ogletree.
My 2nd tier players would be Okafor or Barrett Jones.
Third tier possibilities would be Ezekiel Ansah (right size for 4-3 DE) & Matt Elam.
Need more info: Manti Te'o & Kevin Minter.

At least 1 or 2 or more of these players will be available at 21.

Elam and Jones would be reaching at 21. If you read my draft selection of safety you will find that I am not a big Elam fan. Of the other guys you list Okafor is the only real lock to be there at 21 the way things look right now. Ansah probably will be gone in the first 15 selections.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

If we sit on our hands in free agency and don't sign anybody, I would be a little miffed if the draft went down like this.

Our offense has struggled mightily this year against good teams. I don't see much help on that side of the ball. It also leaves a little bit to be desired on the LB side of things if our roster stays as is since we only have 1 returning starter at LB.

I like the players that you picked, but as you stated in your preamble, if nothing unusual happens in free agency we will be left with some major unfilled holes at WR and LB.

WRs in general do not have a big impact as rookies. They more times then not start to really impact an offense in their second season. The closest thing to a AJ or Julio in this draft is Patterson. As I stated if he were there at 21 then he would be my pick.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Elam and Jones would be reaching at 21. If you read my draft selection of safety you will find that I am not a big Elam fan. Of the other guys you list Okafor is the only real lock to be there at 21 the way things look right now. Ansah probably will be gone in the first 15 selections.

All of this is pretty subjective. Perhaps, Okafor is a lock to be there at 21 (again, subjective). But I expect a couple more will be there as well. Only 20 players can be drafted prior to the 21st selection, right?

Elam is ranked as the #2 safety by Kiper, CBS Sports, & WalterFootball. I'd prefer Vaccaro, but I wouldn't be upset with a 1st round safety selection with the 21st pick.

Again, this concept of "reach" seems ridiculous to me when/if the Bengals are to fill a HUGE need.

Same thing with Barrett Jones. I would hope that the Bengals would trade back, get an additional 3rd rounder, and then draft Barrett Jones with their 1st pick. Again, this would fill a HUGE need. And I have no problem with it. In addition, Barrett Jones' stock has dropped because of his injury in the Championship game. http://espn.go.com/college-football/...p-injured-foot Prior to this injury, he was projected as a late 1st rounder.

[Hammerstripes]

Originally Posted by BengalBuckeye

The only ones who think receiver is a hole that needs filled are on this board. Give it a rest already. He also addressed the backer position with Hodges.

You are completely wrong about the WR position. It's a major need and most people know it.

Like I said earlier, as our roster sits right now, we have one starting LB returning: Burfict.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by mulligan

All of this is pretty subjective. Perhaps, Okafor is a lock to be there at 21 (again, subjective). But I expect a couple more will be there as well. Only 20 players can be drafted prior to the 21st selection, right?

Elam is ranked as the #2 safety by Kiper, CBS Sports, & WalterFootball. I'd prefer Vaccaro, but I wouldn't be upset with a 1st round safety selection with the 21st pick.

Again, this concept of "reach" seems ridiculous to me when/if the Bengals are to fill a HUGE need.

Same thing with Barrett Jones. I would hope that the Bengals would trade back, get an additional 3rd rounder, and then draft Barrett Jones with their 1st pick. Again, this would fill a HUGE need. And I have no problem with it. In addition, Barrett Jones' stock has dropped because of his injury in the Championship game. http://espn.go.com/college-football/...p-injured-foot Prior to this injury, he was projected as a late 1st rounder.

Not sure how you seeing reaching as ridiculous. There appear to be better value selections in rounds outside the first at certain positions. You have to weigh value and need. If you can fill a position such as safety in the second with a guy like Cyprien then why take Elam in the first and just bypass other high quality players? Sorry I just see that as poor draft strategy.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

You are completely wrong about the WR position. It's a major need and most people know it.

Like I said earlier, as our roster sits right now, we have one starting LB returning: Burfict.

What many seem to completely ignore about the WR position is that the majority of rookie WRs will not have a major impact on an offense until their second season. I may be wrong but I do not see a Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, or Julio Jones in this draft. I stated in my mock that if Patterson were there at 21 then he would be my selection as he is the closest thing to an impact receiver and he looks to have a high ceiling. I do not see him getting past Miami.

What we saw in Sanu and Jones were two rookies with talent that were on the edge of making an impact. I saw nothing from either that lends to thoughts that they will not continue to improve.

At LB I would have no problem with a guy like Arthur Brown in the second. I personally see him as a better prospect than Ogletree or Greene. He appears to be stronger at the point of attack and just seems naturally better at taking angles that keep him from being engulfed by larger blockers.

I am of the opinion that you have to place value over need. Using need as a primary criteria leads to inferior talent selection. You can't just bypass talent at positions of less need to fill holes. Need is a consideration but you have to view where filling it gives the best value.

[Stewy]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

You are completely wrong about the WR position. It's a major need and most people know it.

Like I said earlier, as our roster sits right now, we have one starting LB returning: Burfict.

You're gonna be peaved when the Bengals don't take a WR till the 3rd day.

[D.Boon]

Really like the Rhodes, Hodges and Barner picks.

I agree with you wanting to add another interior O-lineman...but don't see it happening. Cyprien I can't really comment on as I don't know much about him...but safety is a HUGE need.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by BengalBuckeye

seriously you put Dre there seeing how he didn't see much of the field. Rhodes would be the guy you put out there on the big physical wr's like Boldin or Johnson. He is physical at the line of scrimmage to stop those quick slants. If he is the BPA I would take him over reaching for someone else.

Dre was known as a physical CB in college.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

What many seem to completely ignore about the WR position is that the majority of rookie WRs will not have a major impact on an offense until their second season. I may be wrong but I do not see a Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, or Julio Jones in this draft. I stated in my mock that if Patterson were there at 21 then he would be my selection as he is the closest thing to an impact receiver and he looks to have a high ceiling. I do not see him getting past Miami.

What we saw in Sanu and Jones were two rookies with talent that were on the edge of making an impact. I saw nothing from either that lends to thoughts that they will not continue to improve.

At LB I would have no problem with a guy like Arthur Brown in the second. I personally see him as a better prospect than Ogletree or Greene. He appears to be stronger at the point of attack and just seems naturally better at taking angles that keep him from being engulfed by larger blockers.

I am of the opinion that you have to place value over need. Using need as a primary criteria leads to inferior talent selection. You can't just bypass talent at positions of less need to fill holes. Need is a consideration but you have to view where filling it gives the best value.

I don't see a wr worth it in the draft.
NFL.com is pretty good at ranking players, and they have A Brown ranked 11th and Ogletree ranked 39th. Another site that I like has Brown 37th and Ogletree 33rd. Ogletree's knock is that he's possibly not an everydown player just yet while Brown is.

Of course the combine can change all of this, but I am pretty sure Ogletree will be there, the Giants look like they could take either one, and if we pass on one of them, then they might end up a Raven.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Not sure how you seeing reaching as ridiculous. There appear to be better value selections in rounds outside the first at certain positions. You have to weigh value and need. If you can fill a position such as safety in the second with a guy like Cyprien then why take Elam in the first and just bypass other high quality players? Sorry I just see that as poor draft strategy.

I believe that I listed 9 players. Elam was 8th of 9, if I recall correctly.

Drafting solely on the "BPA" approach in a vacuum has backfired several times. E.g Buffalo and the RB a couple years ago.

Biggest areas of need for the Bengals; LB, RB, & Safety. The Bengals could justifiably add 2 of each of these positions in the draft.

Your strategy is to draft a LB with the 4th round pick. I would be very curious to see your depth chart. If you are intended a 4th round LB to be our immediate starter, I would access this as a "poor draft strategy."

In addition, as I have posted before, drafting a CB in the 1st is a curious draft strategy. Many feel that Hall/Pacman/Dre Kirk/Newman/Prater or Ghee would be a solid CB corp in 2013. Most people complained that Pacman didn't get enough playing time in 2012 (roughly 35% of the defensive snaps). Adding another 1st round CB (back-to-back years) would cause a glut at CBs and would be taking playmakers off the field.

To me, filling a huge NEED with a solid player makes sense. And the Bengals tend to do this most years.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

Really like the Rhodes, Hodges and Barner picks.

I agree with you wanting to add another interior O-lineman...but don't see it happening. Cyprien I can't really comment on as I don't know much about him...but safety is a HUGE need.

Thanks for the input it is appreciated.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I believe that I listed 9 players. Elam was 8th of 9, if I recall correctly.

Drafting solely on the "BPA" approach in a vacuum has backfired several times. E.g Buffalo and the RB a couple years ago.

Biggest areas of need for the Bengals; LB, RB, & Safety. The Bengals could justifiably add 2 of each of these positions in the draft.

Your strategy is to draft a LB with the 4th round pick. I would be very curious to see your depth chart. If you are intended a 4th round LB to be our immediate starter, I would access this as a "poor draft strategy."

In addition, as I have posted before, drafting a CB in the 1st is a curious draft strategy. Many feel that Hall/Pacman/Dre Kirk/Newman/Prater or Ghee would be a solid CB corp in 2013. Most people complained that Pacman didn't get enough playing time in 2012 (roughly 35% of the defensive snaps). Adding another 1st round CB (back-to-back years) would cause a glut at CBs and would be taking playmakers off the field.

To me, filling a huge NEED with a solid player makes sense. And the Bengals tend to do this most years.

I guess I am not most people then. I want Adam Jones back but for less snaps on defense and focusing on being the primary returner. How can anyone have any real thoughts about Ghee and Prater and playing CB at the NFL level?

[bfine32]

Not a fan of the 1st 2 picks, but after that A+. Rounds 3-5 are all personal favorites. Christine Michael is possibly the best pure runner in the draft. Injury and pass protection are a concern.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

I guess I am not most people then. I want Adam Jones back but for less snaps on defense and focusing on being the primary returner. How can anyone have any real thoughts about Ghee and Prater and playing CB at the NFL level?

Pick your poison. You drafted a CB in the 1st round.

You didn't draft a safety in the 1st. But even adding a Safety in the 2nd, the Bengals probably won't extend Crocker or Clements. How can anyone have any real thoughts about Tony Dye or Jeromi Miles playing S at the NFL level?

You didn't draft a LB until the 4th. How can anyone have any real thoughts about (migraine) Moch, Vincent Rey, JK Schaffer, or Brandon Joiner (unproven) at the NFL level?

As a 5th string guy, in my view, I would put Ghee/Prater ahead of the alternative at LB and at Safety. Especially, when considering the depth that is ahead of Ghee/Prater at CB.

Again, if you consider the depth of the starters and the quality of the worst player, the CB corp is a stronger positional group than the LB corp and the Safety corp and the RB corp.