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  #26  
Old 02-11-2013, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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If Mj walks it's because he wants to much $. I would keep Johnson , but we would have to draft someone at DE because we are thin at DE. I say draft Margus Hunt with our 2nd pick. He can play DE, & play in the DT spot as well. This would be a position of need pick. Hunt will be an above average player.



We have to keep Andre. We need to tag him or re sign him.
I agree with everything you just said. you are one of the 1st people ive heard on these boards that has even mentioned Margus Hunt who i love. if hes there in round 2 id want him MJ or no MJ. and i wouldnt overpay to keep MJ. we can find a serviceable replacement for him (unlike geno who needs an extension). Smith is the guy we have to keep no matter what.
As for the original question. i would not freak out in the same way i did when we lost Jjoe...that was a bad day and this would not be on the same level IMO
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2013, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

I would not freak out with either one. Would love to keep MJ and resign for the right price. I would not want to Tag him.

From draft day I was not a fan of Andre, but he's coming around. Not as much of a fanboy as some on this board, even though he's a solid at RT "right now", but I got a long memory of him being at the front end of a huge 1st round contract and not producing..

Bottom line Free Agency and the draft is real deep at Tackle. Tag the Hippo.
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  #28  
Old 02-11-2013, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

On a side note I thought Hunt was exposed during the Seniorbowl (and the week of practice). Not sure how much people put into that but it scared me some. I wouldn't take him early.
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  #29  
Old 02-11-2013, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

I'd try my best to wait until FA was a bit more settled before I started getting upset. If they let them go and invested the money in other players, then we'd have to look hard at the end result.

In the end, a whole bunch of money has to be spent somewhere soon. There's no way around it. Neither guy is my favorite player, and both could be replaced early in the draft, but that leaves more to address in April. If the money isn't going to MJ or Andre and it's not going to FAs from outside the organization, then where's it going?

If they let these guys go, it will make me a bit uneasy about whether or not this team really wants to get to the next level. You might not win rings by signing high dollar fas, but you sure as hell don't do it by not signing high dollar fas and cutting bait with guys you've developed at the same time.
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  #30  
Old 02-11-2013, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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Originally Posted by xavierdude View Post
MJ does not penetrate..has the motor and body..not the results

Smith is a big accident waitng to happen..right tackle is an easy position to fill
just stop
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  #31  
Old 02-11-2013, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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These are not going to be easy negotiations.

Both players have questions, MJ consistency and is he a 1 year wonder, Andre health/weight.

Both players will be trying to get "Elite" money, MJ will ask for a Charles Johnson type contract (6 yrs 72 mil), Andre will want at least David Stewart money (7 yrs 38 mil) but will be watching to see what Sebatian Vollmer gets.

I expect the Bengals have numbers for both and, knowing Katie and MB, won't budge too much from those numbers (cap space be-damned).

I would be more upset if they let MJ sign with another team than Andre.

Andre is the better player (right now) but the draft and Free Agency is deep in the Tackle position this year.

I think the team will tag MJ to see if he can repeat his season and roll the dice with Andre knowing that a replacement for him is already on the team in Collins/Wharton or can be obtained easier in the draft/Free Agency than a good DE.

What do you think will happen and how will you react?
I do not think I would 'freak out.' If they do re-sign them, and pick well in the draft, I will consider buying season tickets.
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  #32  
Old 02-11-2013, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

I'd only freak out if they both left.
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Originally Posted by XenoMorph View Post
Define Freak Out.....

This would be freaking out.
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Originally Posted by ishouldbegm View Post
i will punch a baby if either of them leave
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  #33  
Old 02-11-2013, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

How could some of you be okay with these guys signing with other teams????

MJ is a physical freak who is becoming a dominate force and Andre Smith is the foundation of our offensive line.

You guys really would be okay if we just had to start over at these positions??


That's freaking ridiculous.
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  #34  
Old 02-11-2013, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

Wouldn't freak out, but would be highly dissappointed because if that would happen chances are we wouldnt be able to replace their level of talent in free agency which means we would have to use the draft to replace them. Which then means we would be using higher end draft picks that we need for other positions to use to replace them, which of course means there wouldn't be as much improvement of this team through the draft as there could be. Which of course would probably mean less improvement of the team due to the probablity of not making many if any big moves in free agency.

So no.
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  #35  
Old 02-11-2013, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

Freak out, no. Be disappointed, yes. For the reservations some may have about Andre, I offer this thought. I don't think our qb can consistently put the team on his shoulders and win games a la Rodgers, brees and Brady. Not a knock, just a perception. Therefore a solid run is more integral to the bengals to keep some of the pressure off.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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Define Freak Out.....


And I would get worried if he wasnt signed or tagged and we didnt draft a DE on the first 2 days of the draft.
Freak out like Neek does during free agency lol.

I realize most fans won't actually "freak out" I meant more like disappointed I guess.

Would you start bad mouthing the team for it etc.
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  #37  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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Originally Posted by momadance02 View Post
How could some of you be okay with these guys signing with other teams????

MJ is a physical freak who is becoming a dominate force and Andre Smith is the foundation of our offensive line.

You guys really would be okay if we just had to start over at these positions??


That's freaking ridiculous.
I think it's because the good teams seem to get away with losing 1 or 2 of their star players and still play good football. I guess the fans finally see their Bengals as a good team.
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  #38  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

I'd honestly be more po'd if they don't sign Gilberry. No reason for it not to get done.

MJ should get the tag and Andre should get the contract deal. Also no reason for it not to get done.

You lock MJ into a 1 year deal and re-evaluate the position next year or even get a mid round guy this year to develop. This year also determine what to do with Dunlap from his level of play.

If he plays well or is just average, you'll see if he can replace MJ.

Andre should be a no brainer as you have other holes to fill in the offense.

Leave RT out of the equation for a couple of years. I'd hate it if we had to use an OT as a higher draft pick. I'd rather use a DE pick if we're going that route.

I won't be freaked out if one of these guy walks. I'll be a bit puzzled though...
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:34 PM
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bengals Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

Bengals: "Well.. we offered a... er... umm... competitive offer, but they decided not to take it. We were caught completely off guard."

Me: "Wait, I thought the whole plan was to retain our own talent. If you're not retaining the team's talent, and you're not bringing in new talent, how is this team getting any better?"

Bengals: "Well, we can't exactly spend large money on two players at the same position, and we have other people who'll need to be extended or hit free agency soon. We're going for a Steelers/Patriots/Ravens type model. We'll keep drafting, and bring in seventeen former 1st rounders to compete for a role on the team."

Me: "...."
---------

The question is.. is this from early 2011 (JJo), or early 2013 (MJ)? We'll find out soon enough.
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  #40  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

Nope......Theyre the ones leaving a fun young team destined for the top
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  #41  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:40 PM
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bengals Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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Originally Posted by BengalsRocker View Post
I'd honestly be more po'd if they don't sign Gilberry. No reason for it not to get done.

MJ should get the tag and Andre should get the contract deal. Also no reason for it not to get done.

You lock MJ into a 1 year deal and re-evaluate the position next year or even get a mid round guy this year to develop. This year also determine what to do with Dunlap from his level of play.

If he plays well or is just average, you'll see if he can replace MJ.

Andre should be a no brainer as you have other holes to fill in the offense.

Leave RT out of the equation for a couple of years. I'd hate it if we had to use an OT as a higher draft pick. I'd rather use a DE pick if we're going that route.

I won't be freaked out if one of these guy walks. I'll be a bit puzzled though...
Franchising MJ is a terrible idea.. it's not like midround DEs develop to be 10+ sack kind of guys, and say MJ does well in 2013 and gets 12 sacks. Then a potential $8-10m a year contract turns into a potential $10-14m contract.. but now you don't have $55m in cap space, and you have Dunlap to sign, and AJ Green to extend for ~8y/$120m. (And possibly a Dalton extension too depending on how 2013 is for him.)
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  #42  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

I'll freak out if they both do. I'll also freak out if they don't pay Atkins A LOT
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  #43  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

Losing MJ would probably be worse than when we lost Justin Smith. So yes I will freak out. He is on of the best young DEs in the game.
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  #44  
Old 02-11-2013, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
Franchising MJ is a terrible idea.. it's not like midround DEs develop to be 10+ sack kind of guys, and say MJ does well in 2013 and gets 12 sacks. Then a potential $8-10m a year contract turns into a potential $10-14m contract.. but now you don't have $55m in cap space, and you have Dunlap to sign, and AJ Green to extend for ~8y/$120m. (And possibly a Dalton extension too depending on how 2013 is for him.)
Nope not a terrible idea. Give him a year to show he can do it again. If he can then you may have something...

He's good but not elite yet. If he does it another year. He's elite and deserves to get paid for it with a multi-year. Right now he's only a year out from playing in some games and disappearing.

He had 3 against the pistol running Redskins and 2 against the late season "pre-season style" game of the Ravens. That's 5 right there.

Not saying he's not good or can't be on an upswing.

I love the wingspan this guy has and the possibilities for him to bat passes outside of his ability working the edge.

I just hope he can do it consistently.

It's a big deal to keep him around at least another year to find out.
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  #45  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:08 PM
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Nope......Theyre the ones leaving a fun young team destined for the top
Right
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  #46  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:17 PM
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bengals Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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Originally Posted by BengalsRocker View Post
Nope not a terrible idea. Give him a year to show he can do it again. If he can then you may have something...

He's good but not elite yet. If he does it another year. He's elite and deserves to get paid for it with a multi-year. Right now he's only a year out from playing in some games and disappearing.

He had 3 against the pistol running Redskins and 2 against the late season "pre-season style" game of the Ravens. That's 5 right there.

Not saying he's not good or can't be on an upswing.

I love the wingspan this guy has and the possibilities for him to bat passes outside of his ability working the edge.

I just hope he can do it consistently.

It's a big deal to keep him around at least another year to find out.
And those 5 are in two games that the Bengals won by a combined 12 points. If he doesn't make those 5 sacks, then the Bengals might not win.. if the Bengals don't win either of those games, they don't go to the playoffs.

I don't understand people's obsession with him having 3 against the Redskins and 2 against the Ravens. He helped the Bengals win both of those games in games they HAD to win. Who cares who he did it against? The NFL pays based off of potential most of the time. Right now he has a ton of potential and some good results.. and will probably cost anywhere between 6.6% and 8.2% of a team's total cap space.. if he gets franchised, first off he's upset that he didn't get a longterm deal (regardless of what he says, players love people showing faith in them and giving them guaranteed money... otherwise a player is just an injury away from league minimum or being out of the NFL with no more money)... secondly, if he does have a big season, then he'll suddenly cost you anywhere between 9.9% and 13.2% of a team's cap space. That is a huge hit.

You can't wait and make sure a player has two successful contract years in a row, otherwise all your players would be too expensive to keep. Mario Williams was 27 years old with two 10+ sack seasons in the NFL when the Bills signed him to a 6yr/$96m deal (he was coming off a 5 game season). If Michael Johnson has another 10+ sack year, he'll also be a 27 year old with two 10+ sack seasons. What makes you think he'll be any cheaper than $16m/year? Opposed to if you sign him long term, it'll be more like $8-10m/year most likely.

That's nearly double the money, simply because you want to wait another year. Not counting the fact that he'll make $10.6m guaranteed or so in 2013 with a franchise tag. That's all provided that some team in 2014 doesn't see a 27 year old RDE with two 10+ sack seasons, and decide to simply outbid the Bengals. You think the Browns with all the cap space they'll have next year wouldn't love to have a good pass rushing every down RDE their prime?
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  #47  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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And those 5 are in two games that the Bengals won by a combined 12 points. If he doesn't make those 5 sacks, then the Bengals might not win.. if the Bengals don't win either of those games, they don't go to the playoffs.

I don't understand people's obsession with him having 3 against the Redskins and 2 against the Ravens. He helped the Bengals win both of those games in games they HAD to win. Who cares who he did it against? The NFL pays based off of potential most of the time. Right now he has a ton of potential and some good results.. and will probably cost anywhere between 6.6% and 8.2% of a team's total cap space.. if he gets franchised, first off he's upset that he didn't get a longterm deal (regardless of what he says, players love people showing faith in them and giving them guaranteed money... otherwise a player is just an injury away from league minimum or being out of the NFL with no more money)... secondly, if he does have a big season, then he'll suddenly cost you anywhere between 9.9% and 13.2% of a team's cap space. That is a huge hit.

You can't wait and make sure a player has two successful contract years in a row, otherwise all your players would be too expensive to keep. Mario Williams was 27 years old with two 10+ sack seasons in the NFL when the Bills signed him to a 6yr/$96m deal (he was coming off a 5 game season). If Michael Johnson has another 10+ sack year, he'll also be a 27 year old with two 10+ sack seasons. What makes you think he'll be any cheaper than $16m/year? Opposed to if you sign him long term, it'll be more like $8-10m/year most likely.

That's nearly double the money, simply because you want to wait another year. Not counting the fact that he'll make $10.6m guaranteed or so in 2013 with a franchise tag. That's all provided that some team in 2014 doesn't see a 27 year old RDE with two 10+ sack seasons, and decide to simply outbid the Bengals. You think the Browns with all the cap space they'll have next year wouldn't love to have a good pass rushing every down RDE their prime?
The only DE that makes 16 mil a year is Mario Williams.

Next is Peppers at 14 mil.

MJ would have to threaten the sack title to approach those numbers.

I'm guessing he won't.
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  #48  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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And those 5 are in two games that the Bengals won by a combined 12 points. If he doesn't make those 5 sacks, then the Bengals might not win.. if the Bengals don't win either of those games, they don't go to the playoffs.

I don't understand people's obsession with him having 3 against the Redskins and 2 against the Ravens.
I agree, sacks often come in bunches. If a guy manages double digits in a season it's indicative of a player who is generating pressure on a lot more plays than just the ones they got sacks on.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

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The only DE that makes 16 mil a year is Mario Williams.

Next is Peppers at 14 mil.

MJ would have to threaten the sack title to approach those numbers.

I'm guessing he won't.
I think the rest of the league will recognize Geno as the true star of our DLine and will shy away from offering MJ really big money. I think the Bengals have that working in their favor. Geno is the guy who will command the mega bucks.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Will You Freak Out If MJ or Andre Walks?

As long as we keep one, I won't "freak out".

I've been thinking that we'll tag MJ and Andre will walk because his first couple years here + not picking up his option may have left a bad taste in his mouth.

If it plays out like that, I'm okay with it as long as we find a viable replacement.

If we wind up losing MJ and keeping Andre, I'm cool with that too, because it will mean MJ got a mega deal elsewhere. I don't think he's worth a mega deal.
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