Christopher Dorner...The Manifesto

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

Yes they are. Both are capable of deadly force. Of course this hasn't happened yet, at least with drones on US soil, but it will. It always does. Of course I can't scrutinize that until it happens so....

And as I alluded to earlier, spying on Americans shouldn't be accepted under any terms. It's unfortunate that we do accept it and because we do or have, it will never go away.

PS weapons don't have to be lethal or combative to be considered weapons.

Neither a Drone nor a Helicopter is a weapon. They have the capability of having weapons mounted to them. Helicopters have been used in the US for decades and they are not used in the manner in which you describe.

The use of either of those platforms does not violate privacy issues.

[bishopbengals]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

It is always okay to set a house on fire in order to get the person to come out. That was all they were trying to do. Get him to come out and give up. He always had the option to do that instead of stay in the cabin and burn to death.

If they had blocked the doors so he could not get out then iot would be cruel to set the cabin on fire, but that was not the case at all.

Where do you get this from exactly? I have never heard of this EVER being a viable tactic that police use to get someone out of a location. Sure, it may have happened in the past, but that is completely extreme.

[devils advocate]

Originally Posted by XenoMorph

This pencil i have in my hand is cappable of deadly force. but we still allow those in schools.

This is an argument I don't wanna have but....

even though the pencil is capable of piercing a human, the deadly force comes from its handler. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

If you and others wanna accept a military/ police state that's fine. But don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

This is an argument I don't wanna have but....

even though the pencil is capable of piercing a human, the deadly force comes from its handler. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

If you and others wanna accept a military/ police state that's fine. But don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

A helicopter is capable of shooting missles or a gun bullets but weather they do or not is in the hand of the handler. thats all im gonna say about that.

I Fight for freedom.... I dont like the fact the government spies on people but it is a FACT that they do. Unfortantely a police or military state is in our near future with many citizens crying for their rights to be taken away so they feel safe. But hey if they dont want to take any responsibility for themselves or their saftey I guess might as well ask the governement to do it for them...

False secruity...

On the other hand if the government is gonna hunt this guy down I would rather they do it in the most effective manner possible saving tax dollar money for more useful things instead of a 100 cop cars looking for 1 guy or 5 helicopters burning fuel.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by XenoMorph

A helicopter is capable of shooting missles or a gun bullets but weather they do or not is in the hand of the handler. thats all im gonna say about that.

A helicopter that has been modified to have a gun or launcher.
That is like calling all Humvees weapons because military grade ones have machine guns mounted on them.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

This is an argument I don't wanna have but....

even though the pencil is capable of piercing a human, the deadly force comes from its handler. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

If you and others wanna accept a military/ police state that's fine. But don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

I think what we are saying her is that the highlighted above is a ridiculous statement and that to define a drone and a helicopter as weapons is ludicrous.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

A helicopter that has been modified to have a gun or launcher.
That is like calling all Humvees weapons because military grade ones have machine guns mounted on them.

Every Car is a potential weapon with or without an attached gun. we should ban them all and make everyone ride segways.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by XenoMorph

Every Car is a potential weapon with or without an attached gun. we should ban them all and make everyone ride segways.

I can kill you with a Segway...Speaking of segues...How about the weather out there?

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by XenoMorph

Every Car is a potential weapon with or without an attached gun. we should ban them all and make everyone ride segways.

That's the point. Anything can be a weapon if used as such...but the intent of the standard drone, car, helicopter is not that of a weapon.

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

I can kill you with a Segway...Speaking of segues...How about the weather out there?

I love the whole 50 degrees one day, snow storm the next...said no one ever.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

That's the point. Anything can be a weapon if used as such...but the intent of the standard drone, car, helicopter is not that of a weapon.

This^ Which is exactly why defining them as weapons is silly. One can us them "as" a weapon; however they are not a weapon.

That word "as" is a very important modifier.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

I can kill you with a Segway...Speaking of segues...How about the weather out there?

that would be almost as painful as getting beaten to death with a wiffle bat.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by XenoMorph

that would be almost as painful as getting beaten to death with a wiffle bat.

Weapons I tell you!!!! Every last one of them!!!

[devils advocate]

I suppose the definition of a weapon/tool/instrument or really any word is in the eye of the beholder and the item's or word's intent. When it comes to force, these words (weapon/tool/instrument) are very interchangeable, although they each have very different definitions. In this instance or in the overall scheme of things when it comes to control/law/govt/occupation/right vs wrong/force, I chose the term weapon because that is exactly what I believe they are or at minimum will become in the not too distant future. I've gotta go back to work. I'll be back this evening to defend/clarify/enlighten/ / /....my position....

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

I suppose the definition of a weapon/tool/instrument or really any word is in the eye of the beholder and the item's or word's intent. When it comes to force, these words (weapon/tool/instrument) are very interchangeable, although they each have very different definitions. In this instance or in the overall scheme of things when it comes to control/law/govt/occupation/right vs wrong/force, I chose the term weapon because that is exactly what I believe they are or at minimum will become in the not too distant future. I've gotta go back to work. I'll be back this evening to defend/clarify/enlighten/ / /....my position....

LOL...okay.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

Weapons I tell you!!!! Every last one of them!!!

Coca-Cola is a Weapon!!!!

[pennsyltuckian]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

I suppose the definition of a weapon/tool/instrument or really any word is in the eye of the beholder and the item's or word's intent. When it comes to force, these words (weapon/tool/instrument) are very interchangeable, although they each have very different definitions. In this instance or in the overall scheme of things when it comes to control/law/govt/occupation/right vs wrong/force, I chose the term weapon because that is exactly what I believe they are or at minimum will become in the not too distant future. I've gotta go back to work. I'll be back this evening to defend/clarify/enlighten/ / /....my position....

So SCS intends 1, you intend 2?

From Merriam-Webster

Definition of WEAPON

1
: something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2
: a means of contending against another

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Coca-Cola is a Weapon!!!!

I have the most devastating weapon known to woman kind, within the extra pant leg I had to have sewn into my pants to accommodate, said weapon.

Also napkins...amiright?

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by pennsyltuckian

So SCS intends 1, you intend 2?

From Merriam-Webster

Except for the fact that we know what he was trying to convey by calling it a military weapon.

People use the word weapon to mean anything they use to combat things however when cutting to the chase and defining if a Radio is actually a weapon or not, it would be defined as being not a weapon, even though people will say as a euphemism that that radio is a weapon in the war against drugs...Or the ATV’s the border patrol purchased is a good weapon in the fight against illegal aliens…No one believes they are actual weapons.

He said.... "People ( including myself ) have a problem with drones because they are military grade weapons capable of lethal force."


No they are not. In order for them to be military grade weapons capable of lethal force one needs to arm them with missiles or guns.

[devils advocate]

Originally Posted by pennsyltuckian

So SCS intends 1, you intend 2?

From Merriam-Webster

I'm not sure want you mean.

However within the definition you provided, clearly my defintion exists, where it is allowed for contention against another.
Or even to defeat or destroy someone. You don't have o kill mame or even harm someone to accomplish any of these things...

[devils advocate]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

Except for the fact that we know what he was trying to convey by calling it a military weapon.

People use the word weapon to mean anything they use to combat things however when cutting to the chase and defining if a Radio is actually a weapon or not, it would be defined as being not a weapon, even though people will say as a euphemism that that radio is a weapon in the war against drugs...Or the ATV’s the border patrol purchased is a good weapon in the fight against illegal aliens…No one believes they are actual weapons.

He said.... "People ( including myself ) have a problem with drones because they are military grade weapons capable of lethal force."


No they are not. In order for them to be military grade weapons capable of lethal force one needs to arm them with missiles or guns.

C'mon, read between the lines dude. That's exactly what the term capable referenced in my post.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

C'mon, read between the lines dude. That's exactly what the term capable referenced in my post.

So you have a problem with any platform that is capable of being armed? Like Jeeps, humvees, Armored carriers, Helicopters, planes.

Cause if you are getting that general with your definitions, I just can't take you seriously.

[SteelCitySouth]

For crying out loud...I don't know why I don't just do a minor search on these things prior to getting involved in conversations like this. Seriously the only news source crediting the LAPD with using drones is a British Tabloid. What a waste of time.

[devils advocate]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

So you have a problem with any platform that is capable of being armed? Like Jeeps, humvees, Armored carriers, Helicopters, planes.

Cause if you are getting that general with your definitions, I just can't take you seriously.

Well at the moment we're talkin about drones. If we're gonna nitpick every platform outside the frame of this discussion then there's really no point in takin any of this seriously because its simply talking in circles. The issue I have is with drones and their capabilities/advantages is weaponry and spy capabilities and that's just the stuff we know about. Tell me, if there's no issue with these things why is there such an outcry against them? For instance why did Seattle vote against them?

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by devils advocate

Well at the moment we're talkin about drones. If we're gonna nitpick every platform outside the frame of this discussion then there's really no point in takin any of this seriously because its simply talking in circles. The issue I have is with drones and their capabilities/advantages is weaponry and spy capabilities and that's just the stuff we know about. Tell me, if there's no issue with these things why is there such an outcry against them? For instance why did Seattle vote against them?

Seems primarily they were worried about privacy issues...I think that is quite ridiculous when helicopters can and do the exact same things as the drones do. That being said just because a city votes against something it doesn’t mean they were right. People have been voting for things based on silly reasons or for ridiculous ideas since voting was created. This lends absolutely no credibility to the concept that the drones would be armed militarily in the US, I actually have evidence that contradicts that thought, using the example of the Helicopter, which in reality is a much larger weapons platform and can be armed with much more firepower.

[Blitzberg06]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

For crying out loud...I don't know why I don't just do a minor search on these things prior to getting involved in conversations like this. Seriously the only news source crediting the LAPD with using drones is a British Tabloid. What a waste of time.

Yeah I heard it on the news..then googled it when you asked me and I saw some sites say they were..then they weren't. ..