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Old 02-17-2013, 04:10 PM
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Default So what is Andre worth?

There has been a lot of ideas back and forth about MJ and what kind of contract he can demand, but I don't think I have seen anything about Andre. I know people have thrown out the tag for him, but the tag for tackles is 10+M which is essentially left tackle money. Last season Eric Winston (whom many think of as a top 5 ROT) got a 4 year 22M deal with 8.4M guaranteed.

Having said that, Where do you think Andre fits? I'd like to see a 5year 30M with a 7.5M signing bonus and about 500k per year in some sort of weigh in incentives. That would be 10M in incentives and 20M in salary.

Any other thoughts?
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:33 PM
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bengals Re: So what is Andre worth?

5 years $30 millions isn't bad, I'd say that's probably as much as he'll get and I wouldn't be surprised if he got less than that.

I've always thought we'd get Andre for less than everyone expects and MJ will end up costing more than what a lot would prefer.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

I think they offer him no more than what they paid Whitworth, but Smith will likely leave if offered a contract worth less than 6.5-7M per year. He was the top rated RT in the league last year, and he will be paid accordingly. Whether the Bengals are the team that pays him or not still remains unknown.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

We have done Andre no favors thus far when it comes to contract negotiations. We played hardball early and attached numerous stipulations to his rookie contract. We the opportunity came to extend his contract, we chose not to. Andre is going to command about 9-9.5 mil per season and he will not take a "hometown discount".
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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We have done Andre no favors thus far when it comes to contract negotiations. We played hardball early and attached numerous stipulations to his rookie contract. We the opportunity came to extend his contract, we chose not to. Andre is going to command about 9-9.5 mil per season and he will not take a "hometown discount".
What do you mean by hometown discount when this isn't his hometown?

We attached all that to his rookie contract but it was necessary with the condition that Andre was in and he has to be greatful that we took him where we did because there was a huge risk in taking him at six and who knows when he gets drafted if we wouldn't have.

We needed to play hardball and now Andre will get paid well, but we have the money to do it. I don't know if I agree with 9-9.5 a year, but I think he'll take between 7 and 8.

We need to spend a lot of money, so it's not too big of an issue.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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We have done Andre no favors thus far when it comes to contract negotiations. We played hardball early and attached numerous stipulations to his rookie contract. We the opportunity came to extend his contract, we chose not to. Andre is going to command about 9-9.5 mil per season and he will not take a "hometown discount".
Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you on this, but Andre didn't do himself any favors early on either. He's improved significantly over the last couple years so I believe if we come in with a decent number, he'll be happy to stay here. I'd guess in $7-8 million per year range on a 4 or 5 year length with about $8-10 million in guaranteed money.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:48 PM
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bengals Re: So what is Andre worth?

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We have done Andre no favors thus far when it comes to contract negotiations. We played hardball early and attached numerous stipulations to his rookie contract. We the opportunity came to extend his contract, we chose not to. Andre is going to command about 9-9.5 mil per season and he will not take a "hometown discount".
That's a bit much for Smith. He's the best RT, but he can't play LT (I don't think he could anyways) and no one will pay top LT dollar for him I think. $7 million isn't bad, but I'd like that front loaded to ease the future cap hit when we got to sign real important guys like Atkins and Green.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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What do you mean by hometown discount when this isn't his hometown?

We attached all that to his rookie contract but it was necessary with the condition that Andre was in and he has to be greatful that we took him where we did because there was a huge risk in taking him at six and who knows when he gets drafted if we wouldn't have.

We needed to play hardball and now Andre will get paid well, but we have the money to do it. I don't know if I agree with 9-9.5 a year, but I think he'll take between 7 and 8.

We need to spend a lot of money, so it's not too big of an issue.
Is the 7-8 in pure salary or with salary cap?

I guess my question is does his contract look like 5 years 40M, 10M guaranteed? Or 5 year 50M, 10M guaranteed?

I don't know if I like paying our right tackle left tackle money.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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What do you mean by hometown discount when this isn't his hometown?

We attached all that to his rookie contract but it was necessary with the condition that Andre was in and he has to be greatful that we took him where we did because there was a huge risk in taking him at six and who knows when he gets drafted if we wouldn't have.

We needed to play hardball and now Andre will get paid well, but we have the money to do it. I don't know if I agree with 9-9.5 a year, but I think he'll take between 7 and 8.

We need to spend a lot of money, so it's not too big of an issue.
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Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you on this, but Andre didn't do himself any favors early on either. He's improved significantly over the last couple years so I believe if we come in with a decent number, he'll be happy to stay here. I'd guess in $7-8 million per year range on a 4 or 5 year length with about $8-10 million in guaranteed money.
..and all the contract stipulations and failing to pick up the option pretty much said "we have zero faith in you". Was it wise? Who knows. Do you think Andre took notice? Hell yes.

BTW "Hometown discount" means you re-sign with your current team. Birmingham Alabama doesn't have an NFL team.

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That's a bit much for Smith. He's the best RT, but he can't play LT (I don't think he could anyways) and no one will pay top LT dollar for him I think. $7 million isn't bad, but I'd like that front loaded to ease the future cap hit when we got to sign real important guys like Atkins and Green.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5099/andre-smith

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati Enquirer
The Cincinnati Enquirer expects free agent RT Andre Smith to earn a deal worth $9-$9.5 million annually after "polling league scouts and personnel directors."It's steep for a right tackle, but speaks to how high a level Smith played at in 2012. The famously-thrifty Bengals may balk at such a price, but beat writer Joe Reedy expects them to make Smith a priority, either via long-term deal or the franchise tag. The Bengals have plenty of salary cap room.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

5 yr./47.5M total, 7M average base, 10M signing bonus, and ,5M incentives each year.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

What make me upset is the agent will push for $9-10 mill a year.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you on this, but Andre didn't do himself any favors early on either. He's improved significantly over the last couple years so I believe if we come in with a decent number, he'll be happy to stay here. I'd guess in $7-8 million per year range on a 4 or 5 year length with about $8-10 million in guaranteed money.
So are you talking a 5yr/50M or a 5yr/40M? 8M in salary with 2M in prorated signing bonus comes to 10M cap hit per season. That seems really high for a right tackle of any caliber. Even 8M cap hit per year for a right tackle seems high.

I'd like to sign Andre, but not a the expense of keeping MJ, Atkins, Green, Hall, or Dalton down the road.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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So are you talking a 5yr/50M or a 5yr/40M? 8M in salary with 2M in prorated signing bonus comes to 10M cap hit per season. That seems really high for a right tackle of any caliber. Even 8M cap hit per year for a right tackle seems high.

I'd like to sign Andre, but not a the expense of keeping MJ, Atkins, Green, Hall, or Dalton down the road.
I meant what I said. $7-8 million per year total, at 4-5 years length, with about $10 million of that in guranteed money. That's all. I'm talking about a contract totalling about $28-40 million, tops, depending on those variables.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

Pay him, and pay him well. Just that simple.


He's one of the best RT's in the NFL, which is what the Bengals were hopping for when they drafted him. I'd hate to think that they6 were hopping he would pan out to be a top player, and then just let him go in hopes of striking gold again in the draft!
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
We have done Andre no favors thus far when it comes to contract negotiations. We played hardball early and attached numerous stipulations to his rookie contract. We the opportunity came to extend his contract, we chose not to. Andre is going to command about 9-9.5 mil per season and he will not take a "hometown discount".
lol seeing the condition he came to us in, im sure 100% of us will agree we had the right to hardball him
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:27 AM
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lol seeing the condition he came to us in, im sure 100% of us will agree we had the right to hardball him
We chose him
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

6 yr fo $40 mill; $20 mill. guaranteed
So says my crystal ball.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

If we do not sign Andre and or MJ, we will be stuck in the cycle of replacing the same picks every 4 years. The team will not improve.

Then we will turn around and spend $15 M on 2 or 3 guys to replace him rather than spending $8 M+ to keep him.

Sign the guy!
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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..and all the contract stipulations and failing to pick up the option pretty much said "we have zero faith in you". Was it wise? Who knows. Do you think Andre took notice? Hell yes.

BTW "Hometown discount" means you re-sign with your current team. Birmingham Alabama doesn't have an NFL team.



http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5099/andre-smith
The Bengals probably should have just picked up the option and worked on an extension with him that would have kept the rest of the league out of it altogether.

As to what the Enquirer says, which normally should be taken with a grain of salt anyway, it's not like scouts and personnel directors, if they would even talk to the Enquirer, would have any reason to drive up the price by quoting high numbers. They would have no reason to drive the price up out of the Bengals perceived price range, would they?

If the Enquirer puts even one name to one of these claims and I'll be more inclined to believe it. I could make the same claim in the opposite direction and there'd be no less validity to it. Nameless league wide polls. Give me a break.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

Left or right tackle it doesnt matter Andre Smith was one of the best offensive tackles last season. He has outplayed Andrew Whitworth two years in a row and Whitworth had two near prefect seasons in pass protection. Smith is worth the 9 to 9.5 million they saying on rotoworld and it wouldnt surprise me if he makes 12 to 15 million this year alone.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

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Left or right tackle it doesnt matter Andre Smith was one of the best offensive tackles last season. He has outplayed Andrew Whitworth two years in a row and Whitworth had two near prefect seasons in pass protection. Smith is worth the 9 to 9.5 million they saying on rotoworld and it wouldnt surprise me if he makes 12 to 15 million this year alone.
That's why I want him to hit free agency, what teams will pay $9-10 million for him. I don't think his value is as high because of some red flags (Injury history, weight issues, can work hard but needs a big push and the gun issue).
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

That's why I want him to hit free agency, what teams will pay $9-10 million for him. I don't think his value is as high because of some red flags (Injury history, weight issues, can work hard but needs a big push and the gun issue).


Some team desperate for a LT, or is getting killed on the right side will happily pay Andre good money. Seals a position of need and saves them a draft pick, and all they have to do is overpay for a player who is the best at his position?


Bengals need to lock him up before he touches the market. Make him the top paid RT in the league, because that is exactly what he is.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:09 PM
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That's why I want him to hit free agency, what teams will pay $9-10 million for him. I don't think his value is as high because of some red flags (Injury history, weight issues, can work hard but needs a big push and the gun issue).


Some team desperate for a LT, or is getting killed on the right side will happily pay Andre good money. Seals a position of need and saves them a draft pick, and all they have to do is overpay for a player who is the best at his position?


Bengals need to lock him up before he touches the market. Make him the top paid RT in the league, because that is exactly what he is.
Yeah, look out for the desperate team. Anyone that looks at Andre as being just athletic enough on the left side but overkill on the run game may overpay to get that weapon. It beats investing a high pick on a maybe...if you have the resources. If I'm Cincy, I pay him the 9mil/yr for 5 years and frontload the money. Then Franchise MJ and see if he follows up on the year he had while you're trying to resign him. Zeitler had a really nice year, Boling improved and the tackles are studs.....yet we were still screaming about the interior OL play. Lose Smith and this OL takes a MAJOR step back.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: So what is Andre worth?

Thought it was pretty interesting that the Dolphins are only offering 6-7 million for Jake Long.

There is a boat load of free agent tackles. I could see the team waiting on the tackle market to play out until offering Andre a mega contract.

I still think getting MJ locked up and then using the tag on Andre is our best option.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:45 AM
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Yeah, look out for the desperate team. Anyone that looks at Andre as being just athletic enough on the left side but overkill on the run game may overpay to get that weapon. It beats investing a high pick on a maybe...if you have the resources. If I'm Cincy, I pay him the 9mil/yr for 5 years and frontload the money. Then Franchise MJ and see if he follows up on the year he had while you're trying to resign him. Zeitler had a really nice year, Boling improved and the tackles are studs.....yet we were still screaming about the interior OL play. Lose Smith and this OL takes a MAJOR step back.
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Thought it was pretty interesting that the Dolphins are only offering 6-7 million for Jake Long.

There is a boat load of free agent tackles. I could see the team waiting on the tackle market to play out until offering Andre a mega contract.

I still think getting MJ locked up and then using the tag on Andre is our best option.
I'm gonna have to side with Phil on this one Nati. MJ has had his first double digit sack year in a contract year. We did exactly this with Geathers and he has been....solid. And that is being generous IMO. I believe they jumped the gun on that signing. I think franchising MJ and making him earn that pay day would be the best bet. Andre on the other hand has proven himself for 2 years. He is an elite tackle. I wanted to draft him and I want to keep him! Best believe if he hits the market, Arizona or Philly will definitely snatch him up!
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