"The Other" QB we Passed up in the 2011 Draft !?

[Old White Guy]

Shame on you .
For starting this thread.
You are in TROUBLE!

[Sham69Rock]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Wait, where are we coming up with the 4th round compensation? They wouldn't get rid of him for that. The guy probably only makes 700k and they invested a 3rd him. Why move him for so little? If they "showcase" him in a blowout or two, which they'll have opportunity, they'd get Schaub, Kolb, Flynn type of compensation.

Mike has never valued the backup spot, other than when there was the Palmer-Kitna crossover. He also very rarely trades picks, especially anything in the middle and up.

Knowing that, and knowing that Dalton is GUARANTEED to start through his rookie deal, barring injury or a total collapse, this will never, ever happen.

There is a greater chance of signing Jordan Palmer to a 4 year deal than us trading a 4th for Mallett. (Not joking)

For starters, both Kolb and Schaub had considerably more experience and were highly thought of around the league. Prior to the trades, it was a virtual certainty that a team would be willing to put together a package to acquire the quarterbacks. Both were widely regarded as future starters who were ready to finally step into that role. Mallet, on the other hand, has no meaningful experience at the NFL level which should keep his asking price significantly lower compared to both Kolb and Schaub.
Additionally, there's the tricky question of off-field issues with Mallett. While he has presumably stayed out of trouble during his two years in New England, reports of drug use and other off-field incidents played a significant role in causing his fall to the third round of the draft. And for that reason, a number of potential suitors would likely shy away from a trade for the same reason they steered clear in 2011.
So if New England wishes to move Mallett, they're dealing with a limited market. Only a handful of teams are interested in acquiring a quarterback every year, and of those teams, a portion of them may not be interested in investing in Mallett based on his limited experience and/or the off-field issues.

[Sham69Rock]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

We need a backup and I can see us investing a 4th round pick one, but I don't see anyway they move him for that. Plus I don't see us trading for one.

Don't get me wrong I would love the value if we could swing it. But I just don't think it is even a remote possibility.

Perhaps a more realistic trade would be for us to send our 21st pick + a 5th rounder to New England in exchange for their 29th pick and Mallett.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68

If Dalton doesn't succeed after this upcoming season I would without a doubt give up a4th rounder for Mallett or even a 3rd rounder...I wanted Mallett over Dalton as well.

So if Dalton doesn't succeed based on the definition that a QB is solely responsible for playoff wins and losses, you will trade a 3rd Round pick for a successful QB like Mallett who has never started a game in his career?

[Go Cards]

Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68

If Dalton doesn't succeed after this upcoming season I would without a doubt give up a4th rounder for Mallett or even a 3rd rounder...I wanted Mallett over Dalton as well.

Not me. Dalton is the guy, and will be for a long time.

But hypothetically if the Bengals felt after this season that he was not the QB of the future. Or maybe he got a career ending injury, God forbid.

Forget Mallet. Would do whatever it took to draft Teddy Bridgewater instead.

[bfine32]

Imagine how Titans, Jags, and Vikings fans must feel. Cincy fans really shouldn't be too upset.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Sham69Rock

For starters, both Kolb and Schaub had considerably more experience and were highly thought of around the league. Prior to the trades, it was a virtual certainty that a team would be willing to put together a package to acquire the quarterbacks. Both were widely regarded as future starters who were ready to finally step into that role. Mallet, on the other hand, has no meaningful experience at the NFL level

I didn't say that would be his value right now. I said it would make sense to use him a little in order to get that level of compensation. Use him in the 2nd half of a rout. Use him more in the preseason, etc.:

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Why move him for so little? If they "showcase" him in a blowout or two, which they'll have opportunity, they'd get Schaub, Kolb, Flynn type of compensation.

They're not going to move him for a 4th rounder. They'd have to pay a vet more money to be the backup then Mallett, and if they used the 4th they were getting for him they'd have a player with less experience, probably less skill, who would cost about the same amount. It doesn't make any sense.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Imagine how Titans, Jags, and Vikings fans must feel. Cincy fans really shouldn't be too upset.

Why Vikings? Christian Ponder took them to 10 wins in his first full year of starting and posted a rating very similar to what Andy did his first year of starting. Not to mention his best receiver for the 2nd half of the year was either Jerome Simpson or Kyle Rudolph.

I don't see why they'd be up in arms about Ponder any more than we're supposed to be.

Now, Gabbert and Locker.. You got a point there.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by Sham69Rock

Perhaps a more realistic trade would be for us to send our 21st pick + a 5th rounder to New England in exchange for their 29th pick and Mallett.

Something like that would be more realistic compensation, but with a 4th or even as high as 3rd. And I'm not even sure that's enough. I think they'd want a starting point of at least a 2nd rounder to move him. I don't have a value chart handy for first round positions, but I wanna say moving up late in the draft, even up 8 spots, would be around the 3rd round level. So we'd essentially be giving them the value of two 3'rds or a a 3rd and a 4th.

Even still, it aint happening. Maybe next year you could see something like that. Still highly, highly unlikely though.

OT, but see how well they will have played if they ever do decide to move him? That's why it makes no sense why our organization is so against investing in a decent backup via the draft. You have better depth, with better chance of winning if injury were to occur, with more competition, and possible trade bait if they outgrow their role. Seems like something we should consider doing, no? Why not draft someone with our 3rd, or trade down in the 2nd and use that pick?

[Carolinabengalfanguy]

If I was the Brown's I'd definitely take a gander at him myself. He isn't worth a 1st or a 2nd to me (they don't have a second anyways) + the fact they don't have a second means they miss out on what may be a good year to have a high second round pick with Barkley, Nassib, Bray, etc. all possibly being there.

If it was me I'd offer a third + maybe something later this year or the next to spice up the trade a little bit. I personally liked Ryan Mallet for us coming out of college he has the franchise caliber skills at 6'7" and a rocket cannon of an arm my only concern was the intangibles.

To me offer a 3rd and something else, sign Mike Wallace or Dwayne Bowe and the offense at least has the opportunity to be good.

Plus consider the Browns new HC his QB's of recent memory Cam Newton and Derek Anderson are both tall, heavy, rocket arm guys.

As for us making the trade? No we are committed to Dalton for a while whether good or bad.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by Sham69Rock

Patriots to Trade Ryan Mallett?



By Dave Friedman, Tue, February 19, 2013 @ http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sport...e-ryan-mallett



If you believe that a Tom Brady injury would mean the end of New England's Super Bowl hopes over the next year or two that would put you in the majority. If it seems likely Brady is going to be effective for at least another three or four years, then what good is a valuable backup signal caller? If Ryan Mallett is worth a decent draft pick, he should be traded.
In 2008 Brady was injured during the first quarter of the first game of the Patriots season. Instead of making a trade or signing a veteran quarterback New England went with unproven and for the most part unknown Matt Cassel. Despite winning 11 games with Cassel at the helm, New England missed the playoffs. With Brady set to return Cassel was sent to Kansas City along with Mike Vrabel for a first round draft pick. That picked turned into Patrick Chung.
There are two great reasons to trade Mallett. First, he has value despite having yet to prove anything. There are plenty of teams seeking a quarterback, it is a weak draft for signal callers, and a team would rather take a high upside chance on Mallett than sign Matt Moore and know he is dependably average.
The other reason to swap Mallett is that he is of no use to New England. His contract runs out following the 2014 season. If Brady plays this year and next we never see Mallett, he goes elsewhere, and you get nothing for him. If Brady goes down, and Mallett plays well, at best he looks like Cassel, you still don't win the Super Bowl, and you either trade him or have a quarterback controversy that Brady will win. If Brady gets hurt and Mallett plays poorly, he loses all of his value.
The Patriots are in need of extra draft picks. They are without selections this year in the fourth, fifth, and sixth rounds. While Aqib Talib, who cost them the fourth rounder was an impact performer, Albert Haynesworth, and Chad Johnson were not worth fifth and sixth round picks.
In recent years backup quarterbacks like Kevin Kolb and Matt Flynn have had value and then failed to produce great results. If Mallett can net the Patriots a pick or two, he is worth dealing. What is the down side, he has a great year with another team and you still have Tom Brady? Unless New England is going to invest in Mallett to replace Brady, like Aaron Rodgers shoved Brett Favre out the door, his greatest value will come on the trade market. (end)



I remember several fans on here (myself included) preferred drafting Mallett over both Dalton + Kaepernick. Really, the only reason that he fell to the 3rd were some potential "character issues". However, he's been an absolute choir boy the last 2 years up in New England, where he has been learning his craft under one of the greatest HC/QB tandems in NFL history.
Now, is Mallett offensive coordinator Jay Gruden's type of QB? Honestly, he doesn't really fit the "West Coast" mold.
However, considering that Gruden is probably gone after this season, and having seen what Hue was willing to pay for former "big gun-slinger" Palmer, I do believe that Mallett may be more of a Hue Jackson type of QB heading into 2014 than incumbent Andy Dalton.
Especially, if Andy were to falter again this year, I think it would be well worth giving up a 4th round pick in order to have this 25 year old potential "Ace in the hole" on our roster.


Thoughts/Opinions !?

Let's see we have Dalton who has proven he can start in the NFL by doing so starting his rookie year. He has shown an ability to read defenses and run the offense. He needs to work on long ball accuracy.

Then we a guy like Mallet and other guys just like him in the draft. They have proven they could have success in college and have no real NFL game experience. They are unknown at this point and a huge risk over Dalton.

Why would trade a 2nd round for Mallet when he was drafted in the 3rd round? If the Pats want to dump the guy who is the heir to Brady, that tells me he is worth less and not more two years later.

I would give them a 4th to bring him in to compete with Dalton maybe.

[Sham69Rock]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

Something like that would be more realistic compensation, but with a 4th or even as high as 3rd. And I'm not even sure that's enough. I think they'd want a starting point of at least a 2nd rounder to move him. I don't have a value chart handy for first round positions, but I wanna say moving up late in the draft, even up 8 spots, would be around the 3rd round level. So we'd essentially be giving them the value of two 3'rds or a a 3rd and a 4th.

Even still, it aint happening. Maybe next year you could see something like that. Still highly, highly unlikely though.

OT, but see how well they will have played if they ever do decide to move him? That's why it makes no sense why our organization is so against investing in a decent backup via the draft. You have better depth, with better chance of winning if injury were to occur, with more competition, and possible trade bait if they outgrow their role. Seems like something we should consider doing, no? Why not draft someone with our 3rd, or trade down in the 2nd and use that pick?

I just picked up on the Alec Ogletree D.U.I. thing. Hell, if we could do this deal + our 4th rounder, + still pickup Ogletree.....I'd be all for it Toast.
If we were to go your route + pickup a QB in the 2nd or 3rd this year, who would it be, + do you believe they'd be more prepared to step in than RM probably is right now??

[Sham69Rock]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

Let's see we have Dalton who has proven he can start in the NFL by doing so starting his rookie year. He has shown an ability to read defenses and run the offense. He needs to work on long ball accuracy.

Then we a guy like Mallet and other guys just like him in the draft. They have proven they could have success in college and have no real NFL game experience. They are unknown at this point and a huge risk over Dalton.

Why would trade a 2nd round for Mallet when he was drafted in the 3rd round? If the Pats want to dump the guy who is the heir to Brady, that tells me he is worth less and not more two years later.
I would give them a 4th to bring him in to compete with Dalton maybe.

I never said we should give up a 2nd rounder. My post has always said 4th rounder, + my idea was always to have him atleast start out by filling our vacant QB2 spot. Thanks for reading.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by Sham69Rock

I never said we should give up a 2nd rounder. My post has always said 4th rounder, + my idea was always to have him atleast start out by filling our vacant QB2 spot. Thanks for reading.

Why get all butthurt? I said 4th maybe meaning most I would consider would be a 4th.

I just added texture to why I felt Dalton has proven a whole lot more so far. Also, why again if he is so great would Pats trade him? Brady is old and old guys are 1 or 2 hits away from retirement. If he goes down and Mallet is traded, who is the long term answer for them? Simply, they would never trade him for a 4th if they thought his future was bright. We would never trade for him for a higher price tag than 4th round because we have Dalton.

So, in the end, slim chance we trade for Mallet.

[SunsetBengal]

Didn't we all just speculate about this, a short while back??

At least the combine and my birthday are coming up this weekend.

[Goose]

During the draft I wanted Mallett he seemed to be the more NFL ready.
1st as an upgrade at 3rd
and then the real question
Can Dalton get me there?

[Sham69Rock]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

Didn't we all just speculate about this, a short while back??

At least the combine and my birthday are coming up this weekend.

Link ?

[pdub2005]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Yep. It's the equivalent of a "Sign Oscar Pistorius" Thread.

I'm guess that if thats out of the questions, then my "Hannibal Lector" for Fullback is going to get shot down :(

[Shake n Blake]

Here's the thing. The Patriots didn't draft Mallett in the 3rd round so that they could groom him and flip him for a 4th rounder in 3 years.

They're going to hold out for at least a 2nd rounder, and I wouldn't give up that much for backup. It would instantly cause a QB controversy if you gave up a pick that high.

On the flip side, if the Pats were willing to take a loss on Mallett by giving him up for a 4th rounder, I'd be wondering why.

The only way I'd consider a trade for Mallett is if Dalton stinks it up this year. Then I'd give up a 2nd for Mallett next year. Even then, I'd probably prefer someone else.