Cincinnati Bengals

Go Back   Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards - Forums > Cincinnati Bengals Football Discussion > Jungle Noise

Jungle Noise Bengals Football Discussion for BENGALS FANS ONLY. Visiting team fans please keep your postings in one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:20 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,228
Rep Points: 14834
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
What case? That guys like you Toast actually relish this sort of BS?


Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:22 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,228
Rep Points: 14834
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
Just my opinion, but I think Jay wants a committee, but Marv still like's his bell-cows.

Jay also talked about 2 TE's, but you see how little we used Orson Charles.

Same old Marv stuff. RBs and 2nd TEs aren't involved in the passing game.
Don't forget Mike. He could be the one still making a lot more decisions than we think. "Why do we need another running back? I just paid the Ellis kid 3 million a year?"

The Hard Knocks video showed that he still is very much involved with at least discussing personnel decisions. "Hey, can't we line that Huber guy up at Tight End?"
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:04 PM
rhinocero23 rhinocero23 is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 538
Rep Points: 833
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
Don't forget Mike. He could be the one still making a lot more decisions than we think. "Why do we need another running back? I just paid the Ellis kid 3 million a year?"

The Hard Knocks video showed that he still is very much involved with at least discussing personnel decisions. "Hey, can't we line that Huber guy up at Tight End?"
I think Dalton's position on the list is generous
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:18 PM
Bengal Dude's Avatar
Bengal Dude Bengal Dude is offline
MB HOF Inductee
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 39,041
Rep Points: 50983
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
Don't forget Mike. He could be the one still making a lot more decisions than we think. "Why do we need another running back? I just paid the Ellis kid 3 million a year?"

The Hard Knocks video showed that he still is very much involved with at least discussing personnel decisions. "Hey, can't we line that Huber guy up at Tight End?"
Huber at TE? It's so bad that I'd actually want to see that.
__________________

You can always trust an dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to look out for.
"Winning makes believers of us all"-Paul Brown
Quote:
The price of greatness is responsibility.-Mike Riley, Oregon State football coach

Rodney Holman-318
Jermaine Gresham-218
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:43 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,228
Rep Points: 14834
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengal Dude View Post
Huber at TE? It's so bad that I'd actually want to see that.
You'd get to see exactly one time, with him going off the field to a round of applause and giving a thumbs up. (On a stretcher)
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:01 AM
DennyGII's Avatar
DennyGII DennyGII is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: PBS
Posts: 26,443
Rep Points: 252143
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
25. Andy Dalton, Cincinnati: Without A.J. Green, itís doubtful anyone would know his name.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more...&post_id=12881
Non story...
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:43 AM
Wyche'sWarrior's Avatar
Wyche'sWarrior Wyche'sWarrior is online now
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bluegrass Region
Posts: 8,413
Rep Points: 15297
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
Really? I don't think you really mean that. If so, I'd like to see them.

We have at least a top 5 WR, who's better than what at least 27 other teams have. We have a TE that probably falls around 12, so he's better than around what 20 other team have. I know we were weak at WR2, but I don't see he takes us down to the bottom 3rd of the league. You could replace Gresham with Coats, and AJ Green alone still might make it above that.

Just a few little examples:

-Let's look at the Broncos. I'd say they have an even corp. AJ gets a slight nod over Demaryius Thomas, Gresham is ahead of Tamme, and I'd say Hawkins is equal to an old average Stokely. They win at the 2, but you could say that Manning made Decker into something greater. He only had 700 yards total in his first two years.

-Eagles? AJ Green is so much better than Desean Jackson it's not even funny. Gresham vs Celek is a wash. Maclin is a very solid #2, but he's enough that you want to give up AJ Green for a 5ft burner in Jackson? I don't know. I may give them a very, very small edge.

-Vikings? AJ Green >>> Percy Harvin. Gresham > Rudolph (he's just a red zone threat at this point in his career. Are you giving up AJ for Harvin just so you can snag Jerome Simpson.

-Patriots. Well,Hernandez missed like games 2-12 and was never healthy. Gronk went down mid season. They were left with Welker and Lloyd. Now, I may take their whole group healthy, but Brady didn't have a ton to work with, yet he still put up numbers.

-Chi. Green vs Marshall is a wash. Gresham > Kellen Davis. Johnny Knox was hurt, and ***** anyway. Hester? I think if you compare both corps it would either be even or a slight nod to us.

-GB. Jennings was hurt and missed a bunch of games. You think Gresham played poorly at times? Finley was worse. Rodgers still lit it up. And there's no way I'm giving up AJ Green just to gain Jordy Nelson, who had a down year. Rodgers made Cobb into a star (Similar to Hawkins) He turned James Jones into a stud, which he's not.

-Indy. Green > Wayne on age alone. Gresham > Fleener at this point in their careers. I think Hawkins isn't far off of a Avery. I wouldn't trade ours for theirs, but I could see it being a push I guess.

-Arizona. Green = Fitzgerald. Gresham > that big white dude they just drafted. Then you have a bunch of guys who hadn't done anything yet. They have Floyd who is probably ahead of a guy like Jones. And Doucet and Roberts are similar to a Hawkins type of talent. I'd say this is another tie.

-Baltimore. Yeah Boldin and Smith are a real nice duo. And Jacoby Jones is a great 3rd options. But none of them are even close to Green. And Pitta is meh. Gresham gets the nod there. I will allow that they have better depth, but I wouldn't say they have more firepower. I'd say this is another tie as well.

-Houston. Green is greater than Andre at this point in their careers. Gresham = Daniels. They get the nod with Walter, but not by a ton. Quick, name another receiver on their team. I can't. I honestly think this is a tie at best. I would take our corp 9 out of 10 times.

Here's the teams that I don't think even deserve discussion, that we're so much ahead of: it's not even close

Cleveland
Carolina
Jacksonville
Tennessee
Buffalo
Miami
Jets
Redskins
Chargers
Raiders
Kansas City
St. Louis
Seattle

Would you agree with these? Cuz that's 13 teams right there.

Here's the teams I'd have ahead of us, no questions asked:

Dallas
Atlanta
Detroit
Green Bay (When healthy, last year's roster)
New England (When healthy, last year's roster)
Saints (Only because Jimmy Graham elevates their receivers so much)
Giants

There's a whole lot of gray area after this group, and between the one above it. (See some of the teams described above. Ranking an entire corp is definitely difficult. The hardest part is figuring out of the receivers are either better or worse because of who's throwing them the ball (See Decker. E. or Fitzgerald, A. as examples of both) But I don't see how there's anyway that there 20 team, at least, who have a better overall corp.

I normally agree with you, Shake and I respect your opinion. But I think you're reallly, really reaching here to elevate Dalton. And it's of my opinion that many good QB's make good receivers. At least more so than vice versa. You could have put a Marvin Jones, Sanu, Hawkins, Binns into a few of these elite corps and the QB wouldn't miss a beat.

I think people reach too much to act like Andy had basically nothing. Having an elite talent like Green, with an above average talent TE who's made a Pro Bowl is one heckuva a start. Yeah a proven two would be great, and is needed. But there's plenty of teams that don't even have a proven #1. It could be a lot, lot worse. Not to mention teams sustain injures all of the time, so missing a 2 while having Green and Gresham still makes for a more than adequate group.
I agree 99.9999%....Randall Cobb is capable of becoming a star all on his own.
__________________

Last edited by Wyche'sWarrior; 02-20-2013 at 09:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:59 AM
Ryan Mc Ryan Mc is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,939
Rep Points: 8920
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
25. Andy Dalton, Cincinnati: Without A.J. Green, itís doubtful anyone would know his name.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more...&post_id=12881
Well, if this is coming out of Cleveland I can sorta see where they'd get this. We won't like it as fans, but in the narrow 23-20 win over the Browns back in 2011, for example, the only difference that day between Andy and Colt McCoy was the one guy had AJ Green to make some circus catches for him and the other guy had Greg Little dropping the ball every other time it was thrown to him.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:29 AM
BoomerFan's Avatar
BoomerFan BoomerFan is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,913
Rep Points: 5543
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
Well, if this is coming out of Cleveland I can sorta see where they'd get this. We won't like it as fans, but in the narrow 23-20 win over the Browns back in 2011, for example, the only difference that day between Andy and Colt McCoy was the one guy had AJ Green to make some circus catches for him and the other guy had Greg Little dropping the ball every other time it was thrown to him.
I remember Colt looking pretty good in that game. And we still have trouble against rookie QBs for some reason (Miami game this year). OTOH, we did finish out against Baltimore's rookie for whatever that's worth.
__________________
Andy Dalton is a Drew Brees kind of quarterback. He has the two qualities every quarterback has to have. Heís accurate when he has time, and heís smart. - Sam Wyche
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:53 AM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is online now
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 32,613
Rep Points: 30359
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerFan View Post
I remember Colt looking pretty good in that game. And we still have trouble against rookie QBs for some reason (Miami game this year). OTOH, we did finish out against Baltimore's rookie for whatever that's worth.
And RGIII
__________________

FOOTBALL... The New Age Gladiator Games...
Tiger Squrriel Is Hungry
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:13 AM
FootballBender FootballBender is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hyrule
Posts: 637
Rep Points: 510
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

I'm not going to lie. This doesn't surprise me one bit. I've been telling the people I know that Andy needs to thank his lucky stars he has A.J. Green. This is the truth....without A.J. where would Andy Dalton be....

No disrespect to our QB but A.J. carried Andy the 1st 2 years....
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 02-20-2013, 12:16 PM
THE PISTONS's Avatar
THE PISTONS THE PISTONS is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 9,732
Rep Points: 8668
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalsRocker View Post
Ya know... the more you think about it... weren't we supposed to be doing a running back by committee in the first place?

Wasn't BJGE only supposed to be sharing the carries?

So why didn't we sign a RB to replace Scott during the season?

Kind of strange wasn't it?

So you'd think that maybe either someone thought BJGE could do it all and they threw the whole scheme out the window.

or

Did they think Peerman or Leonard would be the committee with him? They didn't seem to show too much confidence in that either.

These thoughts kind of go with the lack of anything resembling a WCO and the "Hey let's not throw it to AJ" logic of the playoff game.

Does Jay Gruden know what the hell he is doing with our offense? Was it Marvin's influence?

I don't even want to think about the games where the running game was working and then just stopped.
There weren't really any backs out there worth signing. And during the season, it's doubtful that a back is going to come in and learn the offense in a week.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 02-20-2013, 02:49 PM
THEBURG THEBURG is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,398
Rep Points: 7448
bengals Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
What case? That guys like you Toast actually relish this sort of BS?
Because our opinions differ from yours, we are always wrong, but our opinion is the same as most of the media, and it pizzs you off that you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 02-20-2013, 03:40 PM
Hammerthis Hammerthis is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fort Worth, TX.
Posts: 2,061
Rep Points: 1387
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THEBURG View Post
Because our opinions differ from yours, we are always wrong, but our opinion is the same as most of the media, and it pizzs you off that you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground.
Amen brother! Lol
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 02-20-2013, 03:49 PM
BengalBuckeye BengalBuckeye is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 223
Rep Points: 152
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
I'd take RGIII, Ben or Stafford over Andy. Newton? Not so much. Dude has attitude and leadership issues, and that's no BS. He acts like a mopey kid sometimes.



C'mon man...

You know you don't really think BJGE is the 12th best back in the league.

He was 12th in yardage because some teams split carries. We use a "bell cow".

He was 25th in yards per carry. That's probably closer to where he ranks among NFL RBs.
That stat is bs because we play 2 of the toughest D's against the run in the NFL 4 times a year. It also doesn't help when your passing game isn't up to par.
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 02-20-2013, 03:58 PM
THE PISTONS's Avatar
THE PISTONS THE PISTONS is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 9,732
Rep Points: 8668
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalBuckeye View Post
That stat is bs because we play 2 of the toughest D's against the run in the NFL 4 times a year. It also doesn't help when your passing game isn't up to par.
And guess what? In the playoffs you generally play either really good offenses or really good defenses and sometimes both. So you have to be able to beat them. (Which is our problem. We can beat bad to average teams, but not good to great teams.)
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 02-20-2013, 04:15 PM
Lolli's Avatar
Lolli Lolli is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CTC
Posts: 9,594
Rep Points: 13223
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
25. Andy Dalton, Cincinnati: Without A.J. Green, itís doubtful anyone would know his name.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more...&post_id=12881
This will be a fun polarizing thread.

Andy gets 1 more year to see what he has.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:10 PM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 21,132
Rep Points: 21476
bengals Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THEBURG View Post
Because our opinions differ from yours, we are always wrong, but our opinion is the same as most of the media, and it pizzs you off that you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground.
Not even close to what I meant. Rather you would love to see Andy fail (which he won't) so that you could blather on about it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:14 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,228
Rep Points: 14834
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Not even close to what I meant. Rather you would love to see Andy fail (which he won't) so that you could blather on about it.
That seems like a fair accusation. You nailed it this time around. Point taken.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:15 PM
THEBURG THEBURG is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,398
Rep Points: 7448
bengals Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Not even close to what I meant. Rather you would love to see Andy fail (which he won't) so that you could blather on about it.
Oh he will, give him time, and I'm done talking to you, you like to argue too much, as I said if everyone don't agree with you, they are stupid, you and a few more on here won't let others have an opinion, you have to start your know it all b.s., so rant on knowey.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:41 PM
savagehenry54's Avatar
savagehenry54 savagehenry54 is offline
MB HOF Inductee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Columbus
Posts: 14,241
Rep Points: 36340
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
Really? I don't think you really mean that. If so, I'd like to see them.

We have at least a top 5 WR, who's better than what at least 27 other teams have. We have a TE that probably falls around 12, so he's better than around what 20 other team have. I know we were weak at WR2, but I don't see he takes us down to the bottom 3rd of the league. You could replace Gresham with Coats, and AJ Green alone still might make it above that.

Just a few little examples:

-Let's look at the Broncos. I'd say they have an even corp. AJ gets a slight nod over Demaryius Thomas, Gresham is ahead of Tamme, and I'd say Hawkins is equal to an old average Stokely. They win at the 2, but you could say that Manning made Decker into something greater. He only had 700 yards total in his first two years.

Dude, that is stunningly ridiculous you would try to get that off. You can't just say "he only had x yards, Manning made him".....Get out, yea, Manning makes guys better, sure, so first there's the whole, you're gonna complain if Dalton ain't as good as manning thing. Then besides that, things change, dudes play and perform and you have to give them credit.....Decker balled this year better than Gresh (our second best) and Stokely is more useful than Hawkins all day.

I mean jeez, I can't believe you even tried that. No way at all, ever, thats' crazy talk Broncos receivers >>>>>>> Bengals.
-Eagles? AJ Green is so much better than Desean Jackson it's not even funny. Gresham vs Celek is a wash. Maclin is a very solid #2, but he's enough that you want to give up AJ Green for a 5ft burner in Jackson? I don't know. I may give them a very, very small edge.

Okay, and what of the Eagles QBs? Which one of them would you rather have than Dalton at this point....Vick? Foles? Foles looked like he might be starting to get it, but so what if the Eagles receivers are about the same as ours, it doesn't help ur point relative to Dalton.-Vikings? AJ Green >>> Percy Harvin. Gresham > Rudolph (he's just a red zone threat at this point in his career. Are you giving up AJ for Harvin just so you can snag Jerome Simpson.

Same as above, would you rather have Ponder? Does nothing to help ur point relative to Dalton.
-Patriots. Well,Hernandez missed like games 2-12 and was never healthy. Gronk went down mid season. They were left with Welker and Lloyd. Now, I may take their whole group healthy, but Brady didn't have a ton to work with, yet he still put up numbers.

[I]Welker is the best possession receiver in the game, Hernandez = Gresh, Gronk is on some Kellen Winslow Sr. shyte.......There is no comparison at all to the Bengals corp.[/i]
-Chi. Green vs Marshall is a wash. Gresham > Kellen Davis. Johnny Knox was hurt, and ***** anyway. Hester? I think if you compare both corps it would either be even or a slight nod to us.

[I]Okay, I'll give that I think Cutler is better than Dalton, not by a whole lot though and I view Cutler as undderrated plus he's a lot more experienced but Dalton has shown the ability to be right there or better down the road[/i].
-GB. Jennings was hurt and missed a bunch of games. You think Gresham played poorly at times? Finley was worse. Rodgers still lit it up. And there's no way I'm giving up AJ Green just to gain Jordy Nelson, who had a down year. Rodgers made Cobb into a star (Similar to Hawkins) He turned James Jones into a stud, which he's not.

Okay, Rodgers is better than Dalton. No need to clear that up but their receiving corp still kills our, period. If those receivers weren't any good then Rodgers would be screwed, they are perfoming and holoding up their end.-Indy. Green > Wayne on age alone. Gresham > Fleener at this point in their careers. I think Hawkins isn't far off of a Avery. I wouldn't trade ours for theirs, but I could see it being a push I guess.

[I]Okay, yea, a push. And Luck is supposed to be God but Dalton had a better rating.[/i]
-Arizona. Green = Fitzgerald. Gresham > that big white dude they just drafted. Then you have a bunch of guys who hadn't done anything yet. They have Floyd who is probably ahead of a guy like Jones. And Doucet and Roberts are similar to a Hawkins type of talent. I'd say this is another tie.

[I]Another one where you're just making the point of the opposing point of view.....The Cards QBs stunk this year....So yea, I'll give that our receiving corp was prolly about the same or better, relative to Dalton, what's that prove?? Quite the opposite of what you're trying to say actually....He's not being elevated unjustly, just the opposite, like Shake and I have maintained, he's being unjustly hated on by those who claim he's garbage and there plenty of folks who do even though that's ridiculous to claim.[/i]
-Baltimore. Yeah Boldin and Smith are a real nice duo. And Jacoby Jones is a great 3rd options. But none of them are even close to Green. And Pitta is meh. Gresham gets the nod there. I will allow that they have better depth, but I wouldn't say they have more firepower. I'd say this is another tie as well.

[I]OMFG no you did not try to got there, you gotta be kidding me with that one.......For realz, that just flat rtarded, makes me think you're trolling tbph.[/i]-Houston. Green is greater than Andre at this point in their careers. Gresham = Daniels. They get the nod with Walter, but not by a ton. Quick, name another receiver on their team. I can't. I honestly think this is a tie at best. I would take our corp 9 out of 10 times.

[I]Even it was a tie, which it's not, so what, Schaub had stretches this season where he looked like garbage. A this advanced stage in his career with that run game and that defense, he's much more worthy of the krap Texans fans give him than is Dalton due the bashing Bengal fans are giving him after just two years with a one weapon offense.[/i]
[I'm in bold above........End of the day, an 87 rating is pretty decent, what exactly did you expect Dalton to be able to do with this team that he didn't do?

I put our inability to beat the Texans on Gruden, who is still unproven. Coaching is the biggest difference.

Dalton is fine, he can get it done, I'm not sure Gruden and Lewis can, that's the problem[/i].
__________________
Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak started in 1991 and now its over. The Bengals streak of not winning a playoff game started in 91 too. So now I'm just waiting on the other shoe to drop.

Last edited by savagehenry54; 02-20-2013 at 10:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:36 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,228
Rep Points: 14834
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
[I'm in bold above........End of the day, an 87 rating is pretty decent, what exactly did you expect Dalton to be able to do with this team that he didn't do?

I put our inability to beat the Texans on Gruden, who is still unproven. Coaching is the biggest difference.

Dalton is fine, he can get it done, I'm not sure Gruden and Lewis can, that's the problem[/i].
I actually tried to read that three different times (the parts in bold underneath my quotes) to see if I'm missing something. Bro, what the heck are you talking about? Your point on Decker is the only thing that made some sense, in relation to what I actually wrote.

First of all, for the life of me I can't understand why you're asking me if I'd take Rodgers over Dalton or Ponder over Dalton, yada, yada, yada. The QB's had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I'll break it down for you:

Shake said he could list at least 20 teams that had better receiving corps than us. To which I replied. I was ranking our recievers vs various other sets. The QB's are pretty much out of the picture in that debate, except when valuing how they may elevate some's play.

I even said you have to consider that Hernandez was gone for weeks 2-10 or whatever, Gronk missed substantial time, Jennings missed time, etc. (In the part you quoted) Later in that same very post I allowed that those corps, from last season were better when healthy.

So what the heck are you trying tell me here? Again I don't get it. I'll re-read your post again, but will you please reread mine? Let's see where the disconnect here is.

Here's my take:

1.) That aren't at least 20 teams with better corps than us.(including TE as stipulated by Shake in the initial post) Fwiw, I listed, I think, 13 teams that I didn't even think even warranted discussion. See: Cleveland, Oakland, Jacksonville, Tennessee, etc.

2.) I did list another group of teams that were better than us, no question asked. I think there was about 8 or 10 or so. That's where I included NE, GB.

3.) I think the teams in between points 1. and 2. you can really make a case that we were better than some or equal with others. (Ex: I had us equal with Ari, but better than Min)

4.) All and all, I think the talent top to bottom for our receiving corp, from AJ Green to Hawkins, and Gresham included, would put us around the 11, 12, 13, 14. range. There's actually probably just a few ties every few spots. But whatever.

5.) It seems like you really don't like me. It's ok. But I don't know what you're trying to school me on here, man.

PS The part I quoted here, I pretty much agree with. I even said some of the same things earlier in the thread. How this all came about is that I think some undervalue the overall level talent we had here in receiving game. AJ Green alone elevates you such a great, great deal. Gresham, while frustrating is still above average. Hawkins is a capable average slot. When you have AJ Green, a lack of proven 2 does not take you down to the bottom 3rd of the league. Those teams don't even legit #1's.

Last edited by Toast Jones; 02-20-2013 at 11:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:03 AM
savagehenry54's Avatar
savagehenry54 savagehenry54 is offline
MB HOF Inductee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Columbus
Posts: 14,241
Rep Points: 36340
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
You're one of my favorite posters. We just don't see eye to eye on Dalton. No biggie.

As for our receivers, I'm not downing them to make Dalton look better. I just really think they were pretty bad outside of AJ Green.

If we were to bring in a Hartline or Wallace and move Sanu to the slot and Dalton struggled, I'd be right there with you on Andy.

Here's some teams that had better groups of receiver than us (IMO):

Definitely better

Patriots: Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez
Steelers: Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Cotchery, Burress, Heath Miller.
Ravens: Boldin, Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Dennis Pitta, Ed Dickson
Falcons: Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez
Cowboys: Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Ogletree, Jason Witten
Packers: Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, James Jones, Finley
Saints: Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore, Jimmy Graham
Giants: Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Domenik Hixon, Martellus Bennett
Eagles: Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Jason Avant, Brent Celek
Broncos: Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokely, Jacob Tamme

As for the Broncos, Thomas is a freakish talent, and Decker has always shown great abilty. They were just held back (from a statistical standpoint) by playing with Tebow. Stokely may be old, but he's got 7" in height on Hawkins. I would honestly consider Tamme at least as good as Gresh. More reliable hands.

A little better


Bucs:
Vincent Jackson, Mike Williams, Tiquan Underwood, Dallas Clark
49ers: Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham, Randy Moss, Vernon Davis
Cardinals: Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Roberts, Michael Floyd, Rob Housler
Lions: Calvin Johnson, Nate Burleson, Titus Young, Brandon Pettigrew (I'm talking last year. I know Titus is gone)
Texans: Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham
Spot on.

And would you lookie there, right there on that list are seven of the eight teams that went farther in the playoffs than did the Bengals. And six of those seven, Pack being the exception, have clearly better running games on top of having better receivers.

Five of those seven have comprable or better defenses, Packers and Pats being the exception.....And even with their God status ELITE QBS......What did the Packers and Pats do this year on SB Sunday?????? They watched it just like the rest of us.

Man I am just always so right. I been tryna tell ya'll this for so long, but I digress....Back to my point....

Which is that basically, this TEAM, is clearly going about as far as it deserves to. It would not be able to do that if the QB were a liability, period.

No facet of this team is dominant enough to over come a bad QB, period. Dalton, young as he is, has to be good in order for this team to have even made the playoffs these last two years.

The offense is AJ or bust. And everyone knows it. It ain't that the better defenses just have everyone go cover AJ.....The better defenses are able to keep AJ reasonably in check and shut Hawkins and Ellis and the boys down pretty well completely.

Dalton did great to put up an 87 rating this past year. We should all be excited to see how good he can be given the proper tools to succeed becuz NO HE ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT HAVE THEM YET.
__________________
Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak started in 1991 and now its over. The Bengals streak of not winning a playoff game started in 91 too. So now I'm just waiting on the other shoe to drop.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:10 AM
savagehenry54's Avatar
savagehenry54 savagehenry54 is offline
MB HOF Inductee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Columbus
Posts: 14,241
Rep Points: 36340
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
I actually tried to read that three different times (the parts in bold underneath my quotes) to see if I'm missing something. Bro, what the heck are you talking about? Your point on Decker is the only thing that made some sense, in relation to what I actually wrote.

First of all, for the life of me I can't understand why you're asking me if I'd take Rodgers over Dalton or Ponder over Dalton, yada, yada, yada. The QB's had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I'll break it down for you:

Shake said he could list at least 20 teams that had better receiving corps than us. To which I replied. I was ranking our recievers vs various other sets. The QB's are pretty much out of the picture in that debate, except when valuing how they may elevate some's play.

So basically, they're not out of the picture.....What else was the whole point of virtually the entire discussion in this thread??

I even said you have to consider that Hernandez was gone for weeks 2-10 or whatever, Gronk missed substantial time, Jennings missed time, etc. (In the part you quoted) Later in that same very post I allowed that those corps, from last season were better when healthy.

So what the heck are you trying tell me here? Again I don't get it. I'll re-read your post again, but will you please reread mine? Let's see where the disconnect here is.

Here's my take:

1.) That aren't at least 20 teams with better corps than us.(including TE as stipulated by Shake in the initial post) Fwiw, I listed, I think, 13 teams that I didn't even think even warranted discussion. See: Cleveland, Oakland, Jacksonville, Tennessee, etc.

2.) I did list another group of teams that were better than us, no question asked. I think there was about 8 or 10 or so. That's where I included NE, GB.

3.) I think the teams in between points 1. and 2. you can really make a case that we were better than some or equal with others. (Ex: I had us equal with Ari, but better than Min)

4.) All and all, I think the talent top to bottom for our receiving corp, from AJ Green to Hawkins, and Gresham included, would put us around the 11, 12, 13, 14. range. There's actually probably just a few ties every few spots. But whatever.

5.) It seems like you really don't like me. It's ok. But I don't know what you're trying to school me on here, man.

PS The part I quoted here, I pretty much agree with. I even said some of the same things earlier in the thread. How this all came about is that I think some undervalue the overall level talent we had here in receiving game. AJ Green alone elevates you such a great, great deal. Gresham, while frustrating is still above average. Hawkins is a capable average slot. When you have AJ Green, a lack of proven 2 does not take you down to the bottom 3rd of the league. Those teams don't even legit #1's.
There were a couple teams, the Ravens for instance that you threw out there and it's like no, just no, their receiving corp is so clearly better than our ya gotta be kidding me.

Other than that, I even said "relative to Dalton", which is to say, okay, their reciever may be almost as krappy as ours but it ain't like their QB is doing anything with that krap so generally speaking within the context of this thread, big whoop. Regardless what your individual discussion with Shake was, I was just throwing it out there cuz that's what the thread is about.
__________________
Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak started in 1991 and now its over. The Bengals streak of not winning a playoff game started in 91 too. So now I'm just waiting on the other shoe to drop.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:31 AM
BengalYankee's Avatar
BengalYankee BengalYankee is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,958
Rep Points: 17505
Default Re: ESPN Cleveland QB Rankings (This is going to make some really angry)

Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Oh, good. There can be another 20 page debate about Andy Dalton. Haven't had one of those in a long time.

The fact that this guy has written for the Turds for almost 20 years wouldn't suggest the least little bias, would it?

Super Elite
1. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay: Strong and accurate arm, mobile, unflappable, respected leader, pressure player. What else is there?
2. Peyton Manning, Denver: His truly remarkable 2012 season secured his place among the sport’s all-time greats.
3. Tom Brady, New England: The Joe Montana of his generation.
4. Drew Brees, New Orleans: Probably the best indoor quarterback in NFL history.
**5. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh: The most physical quarterback ever.
6. Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants: Lacks consistency, but when on, the prettiest thrower around.
**7. Joe Flacco, Baltimore: Strongest arm today, plus a pulse that hardly registers.


** Plays in AFC North!!!!
** Rivals of the Browns!!!!



Where is there bias when he has the other QB's of the division ranked 5 and 7?????

Really??? Really??? Has it come down to this where you can pull out the bias card and totally forget who was ranked 5th and 7th???

__________________

Last edited by BengalYankee; 02-21-2013 at 01:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2012 Cincinnati Bengals. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate in any form without permission of the Cincinnati Bengals.