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Old 02-20-2013, 06:26 PM
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Default How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

I mean, I'm wondering how many cases like Chris Johnson are there, where he ran a freakish 40 and got on the Titans radar and that turned out to be a good thing for them. And I wondering how much of that there is as opposed to players who turn out to be workout warriors but really aren't good at football?
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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I mean, I'm wondering how many cases like Chris Johnson are there, where he ran a freakish 40 and got on the Titans radar and that turned out to be a good thing for them. And I wondering how much of that there is as opposed to players who turn out to be workout warriors but really aren't good at football?
50/50
There is no real rhyme or reason to the whole combine being an indicator.
There is so much more to it than the combine.

Combine, tape, practice, interviews, habits, attitude....most of which us as fans will never see.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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I mean, I'm wondering how many cases like Chris Johnson are there, where he ran a freakish 40 and got on the Titans radar and that turned out to be a good thing for them. And I wondering how much of that there is as opposed to players who turn out to be workout warriors but really aren't good at football?
Chris Johnson had game tape of him blistering defenses, including a bowl Game. Problem is, for every CJ2K, there's a Mike Mamula, or a Rondel Menendez (from Eastern KY, ran 4.24) who blow up the Combine and fall out of the league. The bottom line is that Combine workouts should augment, not replace, what teams already know about players. If the game tape is bad, but the Combine is good, its not a good idea to waste time and money. Unless you're Al Davis...
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

The combine is a great way to see a players athleticism, but it is just a tool in the box for evaluating talent.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

Think it is only good for getting a feel for players you are interested in and separating the 1 or 2 that you may be deciding between at certain positions.

Talking and seeing them in person helps add to tape viewed.

Think it helps most on big men. If one is big, strong, quick, and agile, he probably has a good shot at succeeding in the league.

But it is fun for the fans and has become another marketing vehicle for NFL as well.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

The combine tries to quantify athleticism, but it also allows coaches to see prospects in person. Guys physical statistics are blown up in college, and you hear it every year that this QB was an inch shorter, this WR was two inches taller, or this OL was fifty pounds heavier.

I think it can say something about a player's character, too. These guys know the combine is coming, and if they aren't in the best shape they've ever been in, I think that says something about their drive. Obviously, you'll have guys like Burfict that turn it around, but if he had shown up in world-class shape, he probably wouldn't have gone undrafted.

A guy like Chris Johnson can really benefit because he had solid tape, but wasn't from a big school. When scouts and coaches saw how blistering fast he was, they probably re-watched film on him and his stock rose significantly. It certainly isn't the end-all be-all, but it is a useful tool.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

You get everyone in one place, see how they compare with their peers and get to meet the prospects up close and personal. Obviously doesn't tell you everything you need to know but it's one part of the process. Can cause some coaches and scouts who love athleticism to temporarily lose their minds.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

I think the hand measurements are important for offensive skill position players. If they have small hands that could be a problem. Obviously someone like Jerome Simpson shouldn't be highly regarded just because he has stupidly huge hands. But if someone has itty bitty hands I see it as a hindrance.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

Teams most definitely don't draft solely on the combine. They have to see at least a high potential level on tape to do anything. That's why guys who blow up the combine won't go super high unless they have that potential.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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Old 02-22-2013, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

The combine is a great chance for guys who were unable to showcase their skills in college. For example a WR who played for a team with poor offensive coaches and a weak armed QB. A guy like that is not going to have a lot of great production on tape, but if he blows up at the combine it will get scouts to go back and look at his tape again to see if their is any potential there that they might have missed.

It can also throw up a red flag. For example Kiewan Ratliff was an amazing playmaker in college. SEC Defensive Player of the Year, and he was so good he even started both ways playing WR for a few games. But when they clocked him at the combine eh became a second pick that would have to play slot corner or maybe even safety.

No team drafts just based on workout numbers, but workout numbers are a very important part of the evaluation.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

It really doesn't tell you that much about the player that you don't already know.

The interviews are very important and the drills just confirm what you see on tape.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

This info is as critical as any other info. If you ignore it you may end up with a collection of good college football players who simply aren't athletic enough to play at the next level, those things don't always show themselves on film. If you give too much creedence to athleticism you may end up getting a guy who no matter how fast he is can't play for a multitude of reasons but didn't show up as much on film because he was so much more athletic than most everyone else he played with or against. Many a draft selection has failed for both reasons. Not to mention the whole interview process, but you can do that anywhere.

I was watching Stephen A. and Skip debate this, this morning and they were both morons about it, they simply don't get it. Skip said he would flat out ignore the combine because all you need is tape, enough said!
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:16 PM
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bengals Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
50/50
There is no real rhyme or reason to the whole combine being an indicator.
There is so much more to it than the combine.

Combine, tape, practice, interviews, habits, attitude....most of which us as fans will never see.
Absolutely 100% accurate!
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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I was watching Stephen A. and Skip debate this, this morning and they were both morons about it, they simply don't get it. Skip said he would flat out ignore the combine because all you need is tape, enough said!
I am not an ESPN hater like some people, but I don't know how you can stand to watch those two. It is like listening to Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh debate.

But anyway, anyone who just watched Kiewan Ratliff on tape playing against the toughest competition in the nation in the SEC would have said he was a sure fire NFL star.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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Absolutely 100% accurate!

I disagree! The combine is just one factor to consider but an important one. NFL want FAST Players who have a High Ceiling. NFL coaches will coach up talent but you are born with SPEED! Al Davis always said SPEED KILLS!

Drills and interviews are critical along with game film!

THE DOCTOR!!!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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I disagree! The combine is just one factor to consider but an important one. NFL want FAST Players who have a High Ceiling. NFL coaches will coach up talent but you are born with SPEED! Al Davis always said SPEED KILLS!

Drills and interviews are critical along with game film!

THE DOCTOR!!!!
Isn't that what he agreed with?
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

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I am not an ESPN hater like some people, but I don't know how you can stand to watch those two. It is like listening to Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh debate.

But anyway, anyone who just watched Kiewan Ratliff on tape playing against the toughest competition in the nation in the SEC would have said he was a sure fire NFL star.
Actually I think I watch them to see how much I disagree with. I think they both at times do have some interesting takes. But I don't watch them often, they drive me crazy.

Great point on Ratliff, he's a prime example not to ignore the combine numbers. My guess is they gave little creedence to his numbers, this staff tends to be more swayed by the game film than anything else. Not a bad way to go but they need to give a tad more creedence to the numbers IMO.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: How accurate is the combine at telling us things we don't know about players?

I think the advantage is in seeing how they react to instruction, answer questions, explain what they believe to be their strengths/weaknesses......all of the stuff you can't see by watching game film. And we still don't get to see this ourselves; not like the coaches do in the interviews. This is where they get an idea of the man, the personality, the character and how he would fit with the team.
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