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  #26  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

The Bengals aren't afraid to pay a top notch RT like he deserves, ask Willie Anderson.

Collins at RT would be a huge step backwards for the offense. I would hate to think the fanbase would be happy with the team lowballing Smith and going from the best RT in the league to someone in the lower third of the NFL (Coliins).

Frontload his and MJ's deals, and let's put this in the past.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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The Bengals aren't afraid to pay a top notch RT like he deserves, ask Willie Anderson.

Collins at RT would be a huge step backwards for the offense. I would hate to think the fanbase would be happy with the team lowballing Smith and going from the best RT in the league to someone in the lower third of the NFL (Coliins).

Frontload his and MJ's deals, and let's put this in the past.
That's it. Frontloading their deals would allow more cap space for AJ, Geno, and Dalton down the road. Plus, they are getting more of their money now. I don't have the same opinion about Collins, but I sure would rather have Andre starting and Collins as a backup. Quality depth can save seasons, just like Robinson saved ours when Faine was useless.
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  #28  
Old 02-22-2013, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

Gotta say, all the talk about Marvin scouting the OTs provides a little doubt in this whole situation. Hopefully it's just precautionary.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

Andre got a pretty good rookie deal. He isn't going to get THAT large of a raise. He was already getting quite a bit of money.

There is no reason for him to take less money. The Bengals have the cap space to pay him a market value deal. There are a lot of teams that are over the cap or up close to it, so the market may not be that great this year since the cap didn't increase by that much.
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  #30  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:49 AM
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bengals Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Joseph said he wanted to stay too. Players go to the team that offers the most money. When they money is the same is when loyalty comes into play.

Andre Smith wasn't the 1st one of Mike Brown's draft picks to hold out...Just food for thought.
There were also team dynamics in play with JJ that do not apply in this situation. That point consistently gets ignored.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:04 AM
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bengals Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Originally Posted by SHRacerX View Post
Agreed. I hope MJ gets a long term deal, but it has to allow Dunlap and Geno to have room for deals as well. Andre should get the tag if needed, and I would never give him a ltc with a ton of upfront for the reasons you stated. He did impress me after the first two years, but I would fear a regression if he isn't motivated.
My biggest beef with these guys getting drafted and playing in the nfl is this.Most of them are from poor familes,have never had much.They get recruited by some college to play football to make the college a ton of money.Yes, they work their butts off in college, then they get drafted into the nfl and get paid MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS DAY ONE.Then when its time to reup they want MILLIONS AND MILLIONS MORE.Allow me to be the first to say this.MOst of these dudes seem to be morons to begin with.Have no other skills but to line up and block someone.Lets carry guns into airports comes to mind.How stupid.By the way, these dudes DO NOT CARE ANYTHING ABOUT FANS OR LOYALTY OR ANY OF THAT.I personally feel most of them are so undeserving of that kind of money and its a joke to pay them so much.This guy,Andre Smith will struggle to stay in shape as long as he is here or whereever he goes. And remember,these dudes could care less about you or me.Can you even imagine getting paid MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to line up and block someone once a week and then after a few years asking for even more money???ITS NUTS.These guys are so spoiled and i feel they are a joke..If I were able to play football in any position and got paid MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, i would say Where do i sign up.I would sign a blank contract and tell Mike Brown to pay me what they think i am worth.Remember, these dudes could care less about fans, the city or any of that.ALL they want is give me more money.Its nothing more than a legal SHAKEDOWN. I could care less if any of these resign.Go get someone else.A dude that is fat,out of shape,packin in an airport and just stupid,I do not want to look at him every week.
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  #32  
Old 02-23-2013, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Gotta say, all the talk about Marvin scouting the OTs provides a little doubt in this whole situation. Hopefully it's just precautionary.
The team scouting OL never bother's me, as a team can never have too many talented blockers. This year's draft class has plenty of good OLmen to choose from. It's a good thing to keep the shelves well stocked, rather than to have an injury occur and have poor stock to turn to.

Even if Andre signs a long term contract, it's getting to be time to start looking for an heir apparent to Whitworth, and Roland's contract is up as well.
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  #33  
Old 02-23-2013, 09:38 AM
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bengals Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
The team scouting OL never bother's me, as a team can never have too many talented blockers. This year's draft class has plenty of good OLmen to choose from. It's a good thing to keep the shelves well stocked, rather than to have an injury occur and have poor stock to turn to.

Even if Andre signs a long term contract, it's getting to be time to start looking for an heir apparent to Whitworth, and Roland's contract is up as well.
Absolutely agree. I would be upset if I found out they were not scouting OTs. It is funny how many want the team to improve but get wound up over info such as this. Where might we be had we not drafted Whit after extending Willie and Levi.

Competition breeds excellence.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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My biggest beef with these guys getting drafted and playing in the nfl is this.Most of them are from poor familes,have never had much.They get recruited by some college to play football to make the college a ton of money.Yes, they work their butts off in college, then they get drafted into the nfl and get paid MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS DAY ONE.Then when its time to reup they want MILLIONS AND MILLIONS MORE.Allow me to be the first to say this.MOst of these dudes seem to be morons to begin with.Have no other skills but to line up and block someone.Lets carry guns into airports comes to mind.How stupid.By the way, these dudes DO NOT CARE ANYTHING ABOUT FANS OR LOYALTY OR ANY OF THAT.I personally feel most of them are so undeserving of that kind of money and its a joke to pay them so much.This guy,Andre Smith will struggle to stay in shape as long as he is here or whereever he goes. And remember,these dudes could care less about you or me.Can you even imagine getting paid MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to line up and block someone once a week and then after a few years asking for even more money???ITS NUTS.These guys are so spoiled and i feel they are a joke..If I were able to play football in any position and got paid MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, i would say Where do i sign up.I would sign a blank contract and tell Mike Brown to pay me what they think i am worth.Remember, these dudes could care less about fans, the city or any of that.ALL they want is give me more money.Its nothing more than a legal SHAKEDOWN. I could care less if any of these resign.Go get someone else.A dude that is fat,out of shape,packin in an airport and just stupid,I do not want to look at him every week.
How about hitting the space bar every so often, especially after punctuation.
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  #35  
Old 02-23-2013, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
The team scouting OL never bother's me, as a team can never have too many talented blockers. This year's draft class has plenty of good OLmen to choose from. It's a good thing to keep the shelves well stocked, rather than to have an injury occur and have poor stock to turn to.

Even if Andre signs a long term contract, it's getting to be time to start looking for an heir apparent to Whitworth, and Roland's contract is up as well.
Agree. This draft is deep in o line, safety and lb. They should be doing their due diligence and scouting every position.
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  #36  
Old 02-23-2013, 09:43 AM
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bengals Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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How about hitting the space bar every so often, especially after punctuation.
Pointless attempt. This has been brought up to him on countless occasions. I do not even read his posts anymore because they are a mochgraine waiting to happen. There may be some good insights in his posts but may never know.
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  #37  
Old 02-23-2013, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Absolutely agree. I would be upset if I found out they were not scouting OTs. It is funny how many want the team to improve but get wound up over info such as this. Where might we be had we not drafted Whit after extending Willie and Levi.

Competition breeds excellence.

Yes, and many seem to think that you build a winner by loading up on flashy skill players, and rolling with a patchwork OL. When the reality of things are that an excellent OL can make average skill players look great, but it doesn't work the other way around.
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  #38  
Old 02-23-2013, 09:45 AM
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bengals Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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Yes, and many seem to think that you build a winner by loading up on flashy skill players, and rolling with a patchwork OL. When the reality of things are that an excellent OL can make average skill players look great, but it doesn't work the other way around.
Amen! !!
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

they will sign or tag MJ, RT's are easier to replace than DE's.
I do think both are necessary for a playoff run.
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  #40  
Old 02-23-2013, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

The team scouting OL never bother's me, as a team can never have too many talented blockers. This year's draft class has plenty of good OLmen to choose from. It's a good thing to keep the shelves well stocked, rather than to have an injury occur and have poor stock to turn to.

Even if Andre signs a long term contract, it's getting to be time to start looking for an heir apparent to Whitworth, and Roland's contract is up as well.



Very true. Plus if the team wasn't even looking at OT's, that would be a green light for Smith's agent to play hardball.

Another aspect is the Bengals tendency to turn OT's into OG's. Makes perfect sense that they might be scouting for a mauling OT with okay feet to move inside to LG, or RG and thereby move Zeitler to LG.
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  #41  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

It is easy for us to judge a player for trying to get as much money as possible from the teams. Admittedly, it is not good for the team to have hold outs or to have to tie up extra money in a player after a free agency bidding war, but these guys are living on a tight-rope. One injury and their career is over, and injuries happen every day.

Careers in the NFL do not last long, and these guys have lives to live. Many have children and wives to support and even though I take rooting for my team that I love very seriously, I have left a job for a raise of a few bucks an hour before, how the heck am I going to judge some one who wants to make sure that he is making as much money in the short period of time that he is able to play pro-sports.

We all love the home-town guy who spends his whole career with the team, but that is just not reality in most cases. We have to remember that at the end of the day, this is their job.

Many of these players also come from poverty and are supporting family members and parents as well, they need to cash in as much as possible. There is a point, such as hold-outs, which can ultimately be counterproductive and I think can actually cost players money in the long run by starting their careers off on the wrong foot (pun intended).

But he has every right to have his agent check in with every team in the league to see who wants his services the most and then use them to make as much money as he can on his next contract. It would be sad to see him go, but he only owes this team the time on the contract he signed.
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  #42  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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True.... But I still think agents come into play and we all know Andre Smith Agent from Hard Knocks. Mind you everything is skewed on TV so what do we know?

NOTHING AH!!
I thought I read somewhere that he changed his agent.

Still hated the old agent's remar on Hard Knocks: "congratulations you are now a rich man".
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  #43  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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So when Andre Smith was first drafted he had a stellar hold out of 3 weeks I believe it was.
His agent is known to be a tough negotiator to the point of banging your head against the wall.

If Andre Smith has been humbled and really likes this team, perhaps he will reign in his agent. Something tells me his agent is going to encourage Smith to squeeze the Bengals for every dime and nickel they can.

While MJ has pointed out he would like to stay, Andre Smith has been quiet. I pray that Andre has been humbled and won't try to pull a stunt with his agent. Alas I fear that is coming. I'd rather Tag MJ and work on a longer term deal, then deal with Andre Smith and his agent.

Anthony Collins can come in and step up right to the plate. The Bengals signed him to a two year deal last year. I believe they were preparing themselves for Andre possible Departure. I've heard so many people on this forum say that Collins should start, that he is starter material.
I happen to be one of those.
I'd rather us Tag MJ work on a deal or perhaps see if his production falls off next year and try to get a lower price. (Rather not have another 1 year Antwan Odom inflation deal).
If Collins is heir apparent you don;t have to use a high draft pick on the O-line to replace Smith.
Also if Collins does play well we can sign him cheaper to a long term deal as opposed to Smith.
You don't tag a guy just so you can work out a longer deal. That is a waste of the tag. IF MJ truly wants to be here, then he should be pretty easy to re-sign (assuming that the Bengals make him a fair market value offer).

If you don't want to deal with Andre and his agent, you tag him and then draft a replacement. Either way, you can't have two of your better starters leaving when you are trying to take the next step and make the playoffs for the 3rd straight year. This isn't a rebuilding year, it needs to be a building year.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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The team scouting OL never bother's me, as a team can never have too many talented blockers. This year's draft class has plenty of good OLmen to choose from. It's a good thing to keep the shelves well stocked, rather than to have an injury occur and have poor stock to turn to.

Even if Andre signs a long term contract, it's getting to be time to start looking for an heir apparent to Whitworth, and Roland's contract is up as well.

^This^.

Upgrading the line is an annual necessity, or at least deserves prudent analysis. If the Bengals chose to do so, they could get two solid, OL starters with two of their 1st 4 picks. Guys that would upgrade positions of weakness (LG,C, potentially RT, backups). Since the Bengals have RB's who only get what's blocked, it makes sense to get at least one OL prospect to improve the "what's blocked" aspect. In reality, only one of the Top 4 picks should be used on the OL, but it should net Cincy a solid upgrade.

The FA period should shed some light on potential directions the Bengals will address in the Draft. I'd love to see a RFA signing of either Pierre Thomas or Chris Ivory, depending on who the Saints decide on keeping. The RFA price on either shouldn't be terribly high. I'd also like to see a bargain-priced guy like Gerald McRath brought in for LB depth.
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  #45  
Old 02-25-2013, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

For the record, Andre has changed his representation. What meaning this has for the Bengals is up for interpretation.

I would love to sign both Johnson and Smith to long term deals. However, I think Johnson may be more likely to sign in time, and that will be ok, because then we can tag Andre.

We can't let good players get away, because it just sets you back on team building through the draft.
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  #46  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

I hope we resign Andre, but I don't agree that he was one of the top RT's in the game like some are saying. He played well. He blocked the right guy most of the time, he did a good job in pass pro(except against Philly), he did okay in the run game. But I didn't see him be the mauler I expected him to become.
He blocks his guy but doesn't move them into the next level causing traffic jams for the opposing LB's like I thought he would. Just my opinion but Collins basically does the same job. Anybody else see it like that or does anybody think I am wrong and that he is a man moving road grader? Curious because maybe I am not paying attention to him when he is kicking butt.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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I hope we resign Andre, but I don't agree that he was one of the top RT's in the game like some are saying. He played well. He blocked the right guy most of the time, he did a good job in pass pro(except against Philly), he did okay in the run game. But I didn't see him be the mauler I expected him to become.
He blocks his guy but doesn't move them into the next level causing traffic jams for the opposing LB's like I thought he would. Just my opinion but Collins basically does the same job. Anybody else see it like that or does anybody think I am wrong and that he is a man moving road grader? Curious because maybe I am not paying attention to him when he is kicking butt.
Who's better?

Not only was he ONE of the best, he was unquestionably THE BEST.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

Can't let 'dre go. If you do you better get Clady or convince Brandon Albert to come and play RT. We have a stable guy at the spot now, no reason to let him walk and just waste another top pick on the position. You will get nowhere doing that.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:11 PM
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Who's better?

Not only was he ONE of the best, he was unquestionably THE BEST.
How about Anthony Davis? Only saw him a couple games but was impressed. How does he grade out against Andre? I see your point it's pretty tough to think of good RT's. Only LT get the pub.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: The Real Andre Smith will be revealed in FA(Assuming Tag goes to MJ) Collins the

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How about Anthony Davis? Only saw him a couple games but was impressed. How does he grade out against Andre? I see your point it's pretty tough to think of good RT's. Only LT get the pub.
This year aside, AD just isn't that good.

Even if he had his best year so far this year, he was the worst player on the line, AND he's basically only a good run blocker. He was the 3rd best RT in the league this year via PFF rating, but he's been terrible every year thus far; like Ryan Clady, lets see him do it for more than one year (Clady is friggin' terrible btw; this year was his first GOOD year; overrated. Hell, his first year he gave up no sacks, but 35 total pressures. That's still awful).

'dre gave up 7 sacks, 2 hits, 24 hurries. 4.5 a carry (best on the team).
Davis was 9, 5, 31. 5.1 a carry (second worst on the team)
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