Sims or Peko

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Dabo614

[/b]



yeah you mean like geno and dunlap?

Geno is a starter. Do you know anything about this team?

[cinc4ever1]

After reading throughout the thread I think alot of you took it that I don't like Peko, and want him gone. Well that is not true I like Peko.

I was just throwing out a topic for debate.

[Rookfactor]

Peko. He never seems to get the praise he deserves. The Bengals defence changed the second he became the starter and has played well since. There is a reason that Atkins (who is badass) and MJ can make more plays. That reason is Peko.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

What is so hard to understand? He comes in a game fresh for two plays then goes back to the bench. He damn well better get some push. He is being put in a position of success by Zimmer.

I can only go by what i see,,if he got to start for multiple games in a row and looked like peko or did worse than i would agree peko must be better.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Cool.

You're ignorant. Period.

Peko does more per snap. Is healthier. Is a team leader. Is double teamed half of every game.

All facts. Haters are a waste of space.

Shut up.

cool so im wrong cause im ignorant, a hater, and a waste of space, glad to see you can contribute so much to the thread.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Geno is a starter. Do you know anything about this team?

Do you even read post before freaking out?

I was eluding to when both geno and dunlap were pine riders for half the season then came in and were clearly better.

[SHRacerX]

Originally Posted by Sham69Rock

I suppose we'll worry about whether or not to extend Peko in 2015: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...s/domata-peko/
He's the 3rd highest paid player on the Bengals, & the 22nd highest paid player in the AFC North. Is there anything you would rather see the team do w/ his $5.1 million cap hit??

Not 5.1 million. I think his durability, leadership, and run-stuffing ability make him worth that. He might be a casualty in 2014 if Still and Thompson shine this season, however. It is a nice problem to deal with. Quality depth at a key position with versatility.

[JohnHenry]

As it stands now the answer is Peko.

However…

I’d like to see what Pat Sims can do if he really prepares during the off-season and stays healthy.

My reason for this is based on the following conversation about Pat Sims between Lance McAllister and John Thornton prior to the Houston playoff game this past season.

Q (McAllister): What does Pat Sims, being in this rotation, mean to this defensive line?

A: (Thornton): I think he is the second best tackle on the team and I’ve been saying that all season.
I even said it in the off-season when they drafted these young guys.
People just thought they were going to come in and play and that’d be the end of Pat.
I’m saying Pat is too good of a player to not play. Now his problem, and I’ve been saying it for years, is he has to get in shape.
He doesn’t feel that way all of the time, but I think if he gets in shape, loses about 15 pounds, he’s the Bengals second best defensive tackle behind Geno,
maybe a better guy to take on blocks than Geno as far as taking on double teams and things like that.
He stays on his feet and that’s one thing Marvin really likes in his defensive linemen.
And, he’s a big guy and can take on double teams, he can split them, but his biggest problem is health and staying in shape.
So, if he ever figures that out then I think the Bengals have a gem.
But I’ve always been a huge fan of him, even my last year playing, I just thought he was a really good player.


So, I’ve always been impressed by Sims. He’s a force inside when healthy and a good addition to the rotation.
He’s physically better than most DLinemen on the team and better than many seem to think.
BUT, you just can’t teach DESIRE.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

As it stands now the answer is Peko.

However…

I’d like to see what Pat Sims can do if he really prepares during the off-season and stays healthy.

My reason for this is based on the following conversation about Pat Sims between Lance McAllister and John Thornton prior to the Houston playoff game this past season.

Q (McAllister): What does Pat Sims, being in this rotation, mean to this defensive line?

A: (Thornton): I think he is the second best tackle on the team and I’ve been saying that all season.
I even said it in the off-season when they drafted these young guys.
People just thought they were going to come in and play and that’d be the end of Pat.
I’m saying Pat is too good of a player to not play. Now his problem, and I’ve been saying it for years, is he has to get in shape.
He doesn’t feel that way all of the time, but I think if he gets in shape, loses about 15 pounds, he’s the Bengals second best defensive tackle behind Geno,
maybe a better guy to take on blocks than Geno as far as taking on double teams and things like that.
He stays on his feet and that’s one thing Marvin really likes in his defensive linemen.
And, he’s a big guy and can take on double teams, he can split them, but his biggest problem is health and staying in shape.
So, if he ever figures that out then I think the Bengals have a gem.
But I’ve always been a huge fan of him, even my last year playing, I just thought he was a really good player.


So, I’ve always been impressed by Sims. He’s a force inside when healthy and a good addition to the rotation.
He’s physically better than most DLinemen on the team and better than many seem to think.
BUT, you just can’t teach DESIRE.

Whether that's what's holding him back or not, its sure as hell not showing up in the numbers...

[Beaker]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Peko is a better starter.
Sims is a fine rotational body at NT.

this

[JohnHenry]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Whether that's what's holding him back or not, its sure as hell not showing up in the numbers...

I have no reason to doubt John Thornton’s assessment.

He has firsthand knowledge of both Sims and Peko, considering he played with both and continues to stays in contact with the team.

Further, I’m sure he wouldn’t have gone on WLW radio and given his opinion, knowing the ramifications, if he didn’t believe what he was saying.

In short, Sims has talent and can flash much brighter than Peko, but needs to do it more often, and according to Thornton needs to work harder to do so.


Also, regarding his numbers - his numbers are probably reflective of his conditioning and health.
I think that’s Thornton’s whole point – his numbers may improve if he stays injury free and improves his conditioning.

Numbers without context can be very misleading.

[BengalRugby]

If the Bengals had to pay one or the other right now, I would rather see them sign Sims to a reduced contract than Peko to another huge payday.

The Bengals has Stills and Thompson riding the pine and invested good picks in them. I want to see what they've got sooner rather than later. I am not impressed with Peko on the field and realize he contributes in other ways as well, but think his time is passing. Geno isn't going anywhere, and the Bengals drafted two very promising DT's last year, so something's gotta give.


Side by side, Peko may be the better performer, but dollar for dollar, I'll take Sims and the rookies the Bengals constantly leave inactive.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

IMO a healthy fresh Sims is better than a healthy fresh Peko. But the most crucial thing is letting the big boys catch their breath so the rotation is great for those two. I love the option of being able to send out both in short yardage situations.

I really like Thompson and Still. But it seems to me this free agent DT class is loaded and that helps us out. If we can get Sims back at a friendly price I think it is a no brainer.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

I have no reason to doubt John Thornton’s assessment.

He has firsthand knowledge of both Sims and Peko, considering he played with both and continues to stays in contact with the team.

Further, I’m sure he wouldn’t have gone on WLW radio and given his opinion, knowing the ramifications, if he didn’t believe what he was saying.

In short, Sims has talent and can flash much brighter than Peko, but needs to do it more often, and according to Thornton needs to work harder to do so.


Also, regarding his numbers - his numbers are probably reflective of his conditioning and health.
I think that’s Thornton’s whole point – his numbers may improve if he stays injury free and improves his conditioning.

Numbers without context can be very misleading.

Notice Thornton made a point in stating you cannot teach desire. I believe that statement says more than everything else especially when he talks about losing 15 pounds and getting himself in shape.

That tells me that Thornton must feel that Sims does not seem to want it. Enough said if you ask me.

[JohnHenry]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Notice Thornton made a point in stating you cannot teach desire. I believe that statement says more than everything else especially when he talks about losing 15 pounds and getting himself in shape.

That tells me that Thornton must feel that Sims does not seem to want it. Enough said if you ask me.

I believe you misread my post.

John Thornton didn’t say “you can’t teach desire” – I did.

If you reread my post you’ll notice that I italicized McAllister and Thornton’s words.
And, Thornton was clearly very complimentary of Pat Sims.
Again, he played with both Sims and Peko and stated that “Sims was the second best defensive tackle on the team.”
It is what it is.

Personally, I appreciate Peko’s professionalism. He’s a team leader, a contributor in the community, a hard worker and extremely durable.
He may not be the most talented player but he absolutely gets the most out of his abilities, and for that he has my respect.

And, like I wrote before, if I had to choose between the two, as it stands now, the obvious choice is Peko.
However, I’d really like to see what a healthy, in shape, Sims could do, because I believe his ceiling is higher.

[BengalTrucker]

Sims is more talented, but has been injuried.
Peko is average at best.

A healthy Sims out plays a healthy Peko, the trouble is Sims has not been healthy the last couple of years. The end of this year, he still was not in great shape, from being injured over half of this year. That is why he did not get big money in FA last year.

Peko is the nice solid guy, you want your daughter to marry. That doesn't make him better, just a nicer person. He is over paid for what he produces.

Thompson is Peko in three years.

Sims has the talent, but has had nagging injuries and a couple of big injuries.

Over all I say neither is what to build your D line on, the both were not what was needed. Our Dline did not improve greatly till Geno Atkins came along.

We need to improve both positions if we want to improve even more as a Defense. The trouble is we need a Safety, and LB much more than another D lineman. We need to hope Still improves, and Thompson fills Peko's spot better than Peko.

[bradfritz21]

Originally Posted by BengalTrucker

Sims is more talented, but has been injuried.
Peko is average at best.

A healthy Sims out plays a healthy Peko, the trouble is Sims has not been healthy the last couple of years. The end of this year, he still was not in great shape, from being injured over half of this year. That is why he did not get big money in FA last year.

Peko is the nice solid guy, you want your daughter to marry. That doesn't make him better, just a nicer person. He is over paid for what he produces.

Thompson is Peko in three years.

Sims has the talent, but has had nagging injuries and a couple of big injuries.

Over all I say neither is what to build your D line on, the both were not what was needed. Our Dline did not improve greatly till Geno Atkins came along.

We need to improve both positions if we want to improve even more as a Defense. The trouble is we need a Safety, and LB much more than another D lineman. We need to hope Still improves, and Thompson fills Peko's spot better than Peko.

I think that Peko's the more stout guy that can get the push that we need from our nose tackle.

[BengalTrucker]

Originally Posted by bradfritz21

I think that Peko's the more stout guy that can get the push that we need from our nose tackle.

Sims is better at getting push and penetration, but Peko is more solid. Sims collapses the pocket much better than Peko.

If you could put Peko's ability to hold ground and Sims ability to get push together you would have a very good 1technique DT.

We need to be looking for a high character guy that can produce, and replace both of them.

Then Thompson can be the rotational guy and the enitre D line has improved.

[Bengalsman1983]

I don't know how anyone can say that Peko is better than Sims. I understand that Peko is a leader but that doesn't make him a better on-field football player. When Sims was out of the lineup the entire D looked like crap. Once he returned we turned into a top 10 Defense.

[eliminate08]

Originally Posted by cinc4ever1

Who do you think would be the better starter?

I personaly think Sims would but has not proven healthy all the time.

I have always liked Sims more from what i have seen on the field.

Truck can bring out the PFF numbers to prove me wrong though lol.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by bengalsman1983

i don't know how anyone can say that peko is better than sims. I understand that peko is a leader but that doesn't make him a better on-field football player. When sims was out of the lineup the entire d looked like crap. Once he returned we turned into a top 10 defense.

lmao

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by eliminate08

I have always liked Sims more from what i have seen on the field.

Truck can bring out the PFF numbers to prove me wrong though lol.

He probably can until late in the season when Sims rounded back into form. Pretty sure Sims out performed Peko (according to PFF) from our 14th game forward. In the playoff game I know Sims was top 5 ranked D and Peko was bottom 5.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by BengalTrucker

Sims is better at getting push and penetration, but Peko is more solid. Sims collapses the pocket much better than Peko.

If you could put Peko's ability to hold ground and Sims ability to get push together you would have a very good 1technique DT.

We need to be looking for a high character guy that can produce, and replace both of them.

Then Thompson can be the rotational guy and the enitre D line has improved.

That's why Sims has a worse tackle per snap ratio, worse sack per snap ratio, worse total pressure per snap ratio, stop ratio, etc.

But no, Peko can't collapse a pocket and gets pushed

Originally Posted by Bengalsman1983

I don't know how anyone can say that Peko is better than Sims. I understand that Peko is a leader but that doesn't make him a better on-field football player. When Sims was out of the lineup the entire D looked like crap. Once he returned we turned into a top 10 Defense.

Once DUNLAP returned, stabilising the rotation, we turned intoa top 10 D.

Slap yourself.

Originally Posted by eliminate08

I have always liked Sims more from what i have seen on the field.

Truck can bring out the PFF numbers to prove me wrong though lol.

lol its not just PFF!

I have to go back and find those two posts (again) that show that Peko is the more productive player outright...

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by bfine32

He probably can until late in the season when Sims rounded back into form. Pretty sure Sims out performed Peko (according to PFF) from our 14th game forward. In the playoff game I know Sims was top 5 ranked D and Peko was bottom 5.

If we wanna go by rating, the last 7 games of the season (8 with playoff) went like this:

Sims: -0.8, +0.6, -0.7, -1.8, 0, 0.9, 0, +1.6

Peko: -1.6, +0.4, +1.4, +2.9, -0.3, -1.6, -0.3, -1.6

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

If we wanna go by rating, the last 7 games of the season (8 with playoff) went like this:

Sims: -0.8, +0.6, -0.7, -1.8, 0, 0.9, 0, +1.6

Peko: -1.6, +0.4, +1.4, +2.9, -0.3, -1.6, -0.3, -1.6

Just as I figured. Sims outplayed Peko in 6 out of 8 games, including the last 4 in a row.

Imagine if Sims woulda came into the season totally healthy, like he is now.

Wonder if it's just a coincidence that the game that Peko did so much better than Sims was the only regular season game we lost the 2nd half of the season.