Could this article be describing Carson also?

[ballsofsteel]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...e.php?Page=357

[SteelTorch]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...e.php?Page=357

This is why I love CHFF. Being a great QB means being more than simply throwing. I posted a very similar article last week about Big Ben, which you can see here:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...t_results.html

Of course, nobody here will admit that. They'll continue to point toward their lack of a defense as to why their team struggles.

My own thoughts on CP aside, even though back in 2006 when Big Ben was struggling, the consensus amongst Bengals fans was that an "elite" QB can overcome a lack of a defense and no running game and still win. Hence the reason Carson Palmer was elite. And yet, Carson Palmer isn't able to do that either. He couldn't do it last season or the one before. So either he isn't "elite", or even "elite" QB's need a defense and running game.

[have faith]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...e.php?Page=357

Garbage!

[The Bat]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...e.php?Page=357

An interesting little article and I see where you're going with this, however, they are looking at Marino's career as a whole. I suppose we'll have to wait and see if Carson's complete career mirrors Marino.

I'm sure you'll get some good fishing out of this one.

[GreggyDigital]

Originally Posted by The Bat

An interesting little article and I see where you're going with this, however, they are looking at Marino's career as a whole. I suppose we'll have to wait and see if Carson's complete career mirrors Marino.

I'm sure you'll get some good fishing out of this one.

Good fishing you say?

[Davoider]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...e.php?Page=357

Could this be Ben Roethlisburger?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A9679C8B63

[The Bat]

Originally Posted by GreggyDigital

Good fishing you say?

Hit!

[ikestops85]

Originally Posted by GreggyDigital

Good fishing you say?

Mmmmm ... smells like tuna. :p

[Jom112]

Originally Posted by GreggyDigital

Good fishing you say?

The phrase "Tag and Release" comes to mind...

[rkellydugan20]

Maybe except since Carson has been here the Bengals have never had a solid foundation for a defense. Nothing that even resembles one.

IN 05 we relied on our DBs intercepting the opposing QB way too much. Our defense has never been respectable and that is what proves this article couldnt be applied to Carson. Nice try though

[rkellydugan20]

Originally Posted by Steel_Curtain_43

This is why I love CHFF. Being a great QB means being more than simply throwing. I posted a very similar article last week about Big Ben, which you can see here:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...t_results.html

Of course, nobody here will admit that. They'll continue to point toward their lack of a defense as to why their team struggles.

My own thoughts on CP aside, even though back in 2006 when Big Ben was struggling, the consensus amongst Bengals fans was that an "elite" QB can overcome a lack of a defense and no running game and still win. Hence the reason Carson Palmer was elite. And yet, Carson Palmer isn't able to do that either. He couldn't do it last season or the one before. So either he isn't "elite", or even "elite" QB's need a defense and running game.

Your entire post is based on the consensus back in 2006 according to Bengals fans being that an "elite" QB can overcome a lack of a defense and no running game to still win. I dont remember ever claiming that and any Bengals fan who did was just wrong.

[SteelTorch]

Originally Posted by rkellydugan20

Your entire post is based on the consensus back in 2006 according to Bengals fans being that an "elite" QB can overcome a lack of a defense and no running game to still win. I dont remember ever claiming that and any Bengals fan who did was just wrong.

And I agree with you, but that's what many were saying. Just ask Joe from Florence. Of course, he'll probably deny it up and down.

[Carsons-Arsenal]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...e.php?Page=357

Blah Blah Blah Blah, quarterback or passer? It doesn't matter. Just ask Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams or Brad Johnson or any number of no name QB's to walk away with the Lombardi.....ask Big Jen...it's a team affair. Good teams win Superbowls not good players.

Dan "the man" Marino set almost every passing record, won a **** load of games and went to a **** load of playoff games (and a Super Bowl) So don't try an pander off garbage articles that have nothing to do with Carson or the Bengals or for that matter the present time that we all live in.

For Carson to even be compared to Dan Marino is an honor, one that he himself would tell you he doesn't yet deserve.

[BrutisBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Carsons-Arsenal

Blah Blah Blah Blah, quarterback or passer? It doesn't matter. Just ask Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams or Brad Johnson or any number of no name QB's to walk away with the Lombardi.....ask Big Jen...it's a team affair. Good teams win Superbowls not good players.

Dan "the man" Marino set almost every passing record, won a **** load of games and went to a **** load of playoff games (and a Super Bowl) So don't try an pander off garbage articles that have nothing to do with Carson or the Bengals or for that matter the present time that we all live in.

For Carson to even be compared to Dan Marino is an honor, one that he himself would tell you he doesn't yet deserve.

[ballsofsteel]

Originally Posted by GreggyDigital

Good fishing you say?

Is that the girl that went fishing with a bunch of guys down florida and came back with a big red snapper?

[Treee]

Could this be a repost?

[ballsofsteel]

Originally Posted by Carsons-Arsenal

Blah Blah Blah Blah, quarterback or passer? It doesn't matter. Just ask Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams or Brad Johnson or any number of no name QB's to walk away with the Lombardi.....ask Big Jen...it's a team affair. Good teams win Superbowls not good players.

Dan "the man" Marino set almost every passing record, won a **** load of games and went to a **** load of playoff games (and a Super Bowl) So don't try an pander off garbage articles that have nothing to do with Carson or the Bengals or for that matter the present time that we all live in.

For Carson to even be compared to Dan Marino is an honor, one that he himself would tell you he doesn't yet deserve.

Nobody was going around calling those qb's you mentioned above "elite". Some of you bengal faithfull have carson in the hall of fame already. He's going into his sixth season and hasn't won a playoff game yet. Before you gomers have carson jock dipped in gold and framed you might want to hold up calling him elite or even putting him up there with manning and brady. As far as that article, you pray that has nothing to do with carson. I guess that depends on wether your more interested in personal sucess over team sucess.
Thats the truth and you can't stand the truth. Hope I didn't upset you

[BrutisBuckeye]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

Nobody was going around calling those qb's you mentioned above "elite". Some of you bengal faithfull have carson in the hall of fame already. He's going into his sixth season and hasn't won a playoff game yet. Before you gomers have carson jock dipped in gold and framed you might want to hold up calling him elite or even putting him up there with manning and brady. As far as that article, you pray that has nothing to do with carson. I guess that depends on wether your more interested in personal sucess over team sucess.
Thats the truth and you can't stand the truth. Hope I didn't upset you

Considering Carsons playoff season was cut short by a cheap shot from your team ......and the fact that he came back ealy enuff for the start of the next season speaks wonders for him. That and he posted 2 years with very good yardage.

Now lets get to Big Jen he posted a what in Refbowl XL a 25 QB rating? Yea that just smacks of greatness ........... then he comes back with a bump on his head and a stitch in his side and has a very good D and you guys post an 8-8 record?
By your standards then he should have been cut.

Hope i didn't get you mad.

[Carsons-Arsenal]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

Nobody was going around calling those qb's you mentioned above "elite". Some of you bengal faithfull have carson in the hall of fame already. He's going into his sixth season and hasn't won a playoff game yet. Before you gomers have carson jock dipped in gold and framed you might want to hold up calling him elite or even putting him up there with manning and brady. As far as that article, you pray that has nothing to do with carson. I guess that depends on wether your more interested in personal sucess over team sucess.
Thats the truth and you can't stand the truth. Hope I didn't upset you

And yes if you project Carson's numbers over the courseof his entire carreer he should be in the Hall of Fame conversation, whether he wins the big game or not. And I'll use the same reference...Dan Marino.

Oh and by the way, as far as Carson being the greatest thing since the footlong cheese coney (from Skyline) it's not just us "Bengal homers" saying it. I don't know if your trailer park gets cable T.V. yet, but the rest of the national medial speaks of him in pretty high regard as well. So you might be all alone on "steel island" on this one...Bud

[ballsofsteel]

Originally Posted by BrutisBuckeye

Considering Carsons playoff season was cut short by a cheap shot from your team ......and the fact that he came back ealy enuff for the start of the next season speaks wonders for him. That and he posted 2 years with very good yardage.

Now lets get to Big Jen he posted a what in Refbowl XL a 25 QB rating? Yea that just smacks of greatness ........... then he comes back with a bump on his head and a stitch in his side and has a very good D and you guys post an 8-8 record?
By your standards then he should have been cut.

Hope i didn't get you mad.

I think big ben's qb rating in that game was 22 something. Anywho we're not talking about big ben here. Please don't try to divert from the subject. I stink carson is a very good qb. I stink any qb in the nfl is a "great" qb. There are what, 100 qb's or so in the nfl or in other words the world. That is pretty "elite" company if you axe me. The debate is wither carson as most of you bengal fans claims, is an "elite" qb, right up there with brady and manning. I don't see it. Maybe some day but not now. Giant ben had a terrible SB "passing" the ball but he did enough to win the game. Whats impressive about Benny is coming in as a rookie going 14-0 as a starter then the next year takes his team to the playoff's and win three games on the road. Thats the sign of a great "qb". Don't care if he's not a great "passer" like carson, as long as those W's keep coming. No you didn't get me mad, thanks for asking

[Davoider]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

I think big ben's qb rating in that game was 22 something. Anywho we're not talking about big ben here. Please don't try to divert from the subject. I stink carson is a very good qb. I stink any qb in the nfl is a "great" qb. There are what, 100 qb's or so in the nfl or in other words the world. That is pretty "elite" company if you axe me. The debate is wither carson as most of you bengal fans claims, is an "elite" qb, right up there with brady and manning. I don't see it. Maybe some day but not now. Giant ben had a terrible SB "passing" the ball but he did enough to win the game. Whats impressive about Benny is coming in as a rookie going 14-0 as a starter then the next year takes his team to the playoff's and win three games on the road. Thats the sign of a great "qb". Don't care if he's not a great "passer" like carson, as long as those W's keep coming. No you didn't get me mad, thanks for asking

So then you agree this = Ben?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63

[SteelTorch]

Originally Posted by Davoider

So then you agree this = Ben?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63

That might hold more weight if Ben's stats were nearly as bad as Dilfer, but in reality he's performed much better. If you still consider Ben a "game manager", or anywhere near Dilfer's level, you really need to have your head examined.

For the record, the amount of "bad QB's" winning Superbowls is paltry. Trent Dilfer is the exception of all exceptions. Vast majority of the time, a good team needs a good QB. Not an excellent one, just a good one.

[rkellydugan20]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

Nobody was going around calling those qb's you mentioned above "elite". Some of you bengal faithfull have carson in the hall of fame already. He's going into his sixth season and hasn't won a playoff game yet. Before you gomers have carson jock dipped in gold and framed you might want to hold up calling him elite or even putting him up there with manning and brady. As far as that article, you pray that has nothing to do with carson. I guess that depends on wether your more interested in personal sucess over team sucess.
Thats the truth and you can't stand the truth. Hope I didn't upset you

Carson is an elite QB. Would I prefer to have a great, super bowl caliber team over an elite individual player? yes. I will not put Carson into the Brady, Ben or even EITHER of the Mannings categories though. Because he obviously hasnt won the Super Bowl.

But as far as individual talent goes I think Carson is on a very short list. Above Ben or Eli. But he is not a Super Bowl champion so I wont claim he has had a more successful career then Ben or Eli. He is, however more talented than both of them.

[ballsofsteel]

Originally Posted by Davoider

So then you agree this = Ben?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63

Yes, for that superbowl game I would agree.

[ballsofsteel]

Originally Posted by rkellydugan20

Carson is an elite QB. Would I prefer to have a great, super bowl caliber team over an elite individual player? yes. I will not put Carson into the Brady, Ben or even EITHER of the Mannings categories though. Because he obviously hasnt won the Super Bowl.

But as far as individual talent goes I think Carson is on a very short list. Above Ben or Eli. But he is not a Super Bowl champion so I wont claim he has had a more successful career then Ben or Eli. He is, however more talented than both of them.

Carson appears to be the better "passer" of the three. They all have talent. I guess it depends
what your definition of "talent" is.