Last Years Low Attendence Revisited

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

So we lack 5 playmakers? I started a thread saying we lack 5-6 solid starting caliber players.

How do we get these playmakers? Through the draft, we typically add 1 or 2 each year. The problem is we lose players to free agency or guys decline too.

Who were the problematic free agent loses in 2012? Simpson, Caldwell, Livings, McGlynn, Fanene (perhaps though injured), Rucker (maybe).

In my view, there really weren't any significant 2012 free agent loses.

WTS, I really felt going into 2012 that the identity of this team was its biggest challenge. There were many, many, many questions. Was Green & Dalton's ceilings going to appear? Could Zeitler be good? How would Bernard Scott fair? Maualuga? Atkins? Etc. Was 2011 an anomaly for Jay Gruden?

2013 is going to be interesting. Again, there are a lot of free agents in 2013. But, in my view, the Bengal's identity will be much more transparent. Their "needs" will be much more obvious.

For the most part, I do believe that the Bengals can get the playmakers via the draft. LB, DE, SS, & RB.

I hope that the Bengals pursue a free agent RB, WR, & CB.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

And we haven't had a winning season 19 times in 22 years.

We've won 4 games or less 9 times...

So, let's expand back-to-back winning seasons beyond 22 years?

Looking back 44 years.

In 44 years (1968 - 2012), the Bengals have had back-to-back "winning" seasons four times.

81, 82 (strike year)
75, 76, 77
72, 73

Does this make you feel better or worse about the Bengals?

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Who were the problematic free agent loses in 2012? Simpson, Caldwell, Livings, McGlynn, Fanene (perhaps though injured), Rucker (maybe).

In my view, there really weren't any significant 2012 free agent loses.

WTS, I really felt going into 2012 that the identity of this team was its biggest challenge. There were many, many, many questions. Was Green & Dalton's ceilings going to appear? Could Zeitler be good? How would Bernard Scott fair? Maualuga? Atkins? Etc. Was 2011 an anomaly for Jay Gruden?

2013 is going to be interesting. Again, there are a lot of free agents in 2013. But, in my view, the Bengal's identity will be much more transparent. Their "needs" will be much more obvious.

For the most part, I do believe that the Bengals can get the playmakers via the draft. LB, DE, SS, & RB.

I hope that the Bengals pursue a free agent RB, WR, & CB.

I think the root cause is our 2011 team wasn't that talented and overachieved due to an extremely weak schedule.

This year our best win is against a team that is 3-6 now. Against solid teams, our weaknesses are exposed a lot.

I do think that Simpson was a bigger loss than people consider. He's better than any WR on our roster outside of Green.

Benson is missed too. Defenses atleast respected him.

Also, guys like Clements and Whitworth are declining. Rucker and Fanene are missed to some extend. Crocker was waived and Mays wasn't ready to take over.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by mulligan

So, let's expand back-to-back winning seasons beyond 22 years?

Looking back 44 years.

In 44 years (1968 - 2012), the Bengals have had back-to-back "winning" seasons four times.

81, 82 (strike year)
75, 76, 77
72, 73

Does this make you feel better or worse about the Bengals?

Worse. Their last back to back winning seasons was in 81/82. That's horrible...yet it's our glory years.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

I think the root cause is our 2011 team wasn't that talented and overachieved due to an extremely weak schedule.

This year our best win is against a team that is 3-6 now. Against solid teams, our weaknesses are exposed a lot.

I do think that Simpson was a bigger loss than people consider. He's better than any WR on our roster outside of Green.

Benson is missed too. Defenses atleast respected him.

Also, guys like Clements and Whitworth are declining. Rucker and Fanene are missed to some extend. Crocker was waived and Mays wasn't ready to take over.

Here is my challenge to these player "accessments." Specifically, Benson, Simpson, & Rucker.

It could easily be stated that on any "good NFL team" these players aren't starters.

Simpson may be currently better than our rookie WRs. But, his ceiling is low. I foresee Sanu & probably Jones being better WRs than Simpson. Simpson could only learn 1 WR spot. Sanu already knows all three.

Given the option between the complete package of Benson or BJGE, I would take BJGE. Benson was a cancer. Bad character. Glad to see him gone. But I miss his ability to have bigger runs. But, overall, I don't miss Benson. Without Scott, Benson would be struggling in this offense. And I believe that BJGE would have been more productive on 3rd and short. (In this respect, BJGE has been "as advertised.")

As for Crocker, I have stated and haven't waivered that cutting Crocker was a mistake. At worst, Crocker provides excellent depth at the Safety position. Crocker made several excellent plays against the Broncos. He isn't the long term solution, but he does serve a good role on the Bengals.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Here is my challenge to these player "accessments." Specifically, Benson, Simpson, & Rucker.

It could easily be stated that on any "good NFL team" these players aren't starters.

Simpson may be currently better than our rookie WRs. But, his ceiling is low. I foresee Sanu & probably Jones being better WRs than Simpson. Simpson could only learn 1 WR spot. Sanu already knows all three.

Given the option between the complete package of Benson or BJGE, I would take BJGE. Benson was a cancer. Bad character. Glad to see him gone. But I miss his ability to have bigger runs. But, overall, I don't miss Benson. Without Scott, Benson would be struggling in this offense. And I believe that BJGE would have been more productive on 3rd and short. (In this respect, BJGE has been "as advertised.")

As for Crocker, I have stated and haven't waivered that cutting Crocker was a mistake. At worst, Crocker provides excellent depth at the Safety position. Crocker made several excellent plays against the Broncos. He isn't the long term solution, but he does serve a good role on the Bengals.

Simpson was a capable #2 WR. Not great. Not good. Capable. 50 receptions for 725 yards. He would likely have improved with more playing time.

Sanu and Jones may #2 receivers one day. Who knows? They barely play now.

The point is to win now though...and not some hypothetical future date...which we always seem to be building towards...yet never reach. It's because when Sanue and Jones are #2 WR's, Whitworth will be declined. Clements will. Hall will. That's the problem.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by mulligan

So, let's expand back-to-back winning seasons beyond 22 years?

Looking back 44 years.

In 44 years (1968 - 2012), the Bengals have had back-to-back "winning" seasons four times.

81, 82 (strike year)
75, 76, 77
72, 73

Does this make you feel better or worse about the Bengals?

Actually that makes me feel miserable.

I really have to wonder if a team who was founded out of spite and revenge can ever be succesful.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Simpson was a capable #2 WR. Sanu and Jones may be one day. Who knows?

The point is to win now though...and not some hypothetical future date...which we always seem to be building towards...yet never reach.

I will use your logic. Simpson was a capable #2 WR, but he wouldn't be a #2 WR on a good NFL team. In addition, Simpson was found guilty of possession of marijuana. About 4 lbs of marijuana if I remember correctly.

I hear many of this fan base clamouring for Taylor Mays to get on the field. Taylor Mays DIDN'T cut it on a different NFL team (49ers) and was traded away for a ham sandwich. But, Crocker/Clements situate the Bengals in a better situation to win now.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I will use your logic. Simpson was a capable #2 WR, but he wouldn't be a #2 WR on a good NFL team. In addition, Simpson was found guilty of possession of marijuana. About 4 lbs of marijuana if I remember correctly.

I hear many of this fan base clamouring for Taylor Mays to get on the field. Taylor Mays DIDN'T cut it on a different NFL team (49ers) and was traded away for a ham sandwich. But, Crocker/Clements situate the Bengals in a better situation to win now.

Simpson was better than any receiver on our roster not named AJ Green...therefore his presense would improve us. Same with Manningham. These guys could get open which is something that Binns, Tate, Sanu, etc. haven't demonstrated the ability to do.

It's about upgrading positions. Not getting worse.

Mays actually looked decent against the Broncos. Laron Landry would have upgraded us.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Simpson was better than any receiver on our roster not named AJ Green...therefore his presense would improve us. Same with Manningham. These guys could get open which is something that Binns, Tate, Sanu, etc. haven't demonstrated the ability to do.

It's about upgrading positions. Not getting worse.

Mays actually looked decent against the Broncos. Laron Landry would have upgraded us.

And Terrell Owens improved the 2010 Bengals, but squelched the development of Simpson.

Simpson is known for his limited mental capacity. He couldn't learn any other WR position. Hence, with Simpson still on the team, Green would be stuck in 1 WR position. Arguably, this would hurt the overall success of the WR corp. Manningham was also known for his limited mental capacity.

As for Mays performance against the Broncos, as I saw it, Mays entered the game when Nelson got knicked up. Both Nelson & Crocker played better than Mays in my view. Landry signed a 1 year deal. This isn't a long-term solution.