Goodbye Andre Smith

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Andre will be a priority, if MJ is tagged, especially since everyone else plugged into that role has been a huge liability. MJ could well be a one year wonder, a la Odom with the Titans, or Reinard Wilson with the Bengals. Hard to tell if he's fool's gold off a single season in a contract year.


Smith will get a good, long term deal that will cement the right side for a long time. Andre isn't going anywhere.

Not feeling this. If they were going to sign Smith, they would have thrown an extension offer out there before the season started. They didn't even make a low ball offer. This season has been his best, although I think it was the Dallas game he got beat like drum.

While I don't consider him a bust, was he worth a high 1st round draft pick? Not hardly.....not even close. If he wants to bolt, let him. I'm sure Mike Brown and Marvin feel more than a little let down by his tenure here. It started badly (hold out, out of shape, foot injury) and only became better because he's in a contract year.

I'd offer him an incentive laden contract, but he seems to be all about guaranteed money. We've already seen where that's got him.

[CornerBlitz]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

No reason not to keep them both. We have TONS of space, and we should have names like Clements (4.5 mil), Geathers (4.2 mil), Wharton (2.4 mil) Nugent (@2.5 mil tag) coming off the books. I know we need to replace those roster spots but I think it can and ultimately will be done at a much lower amount.

IMO we have to bring back Michael Johnson. HAVE to. Atkins, Dunlap, MJ and Burfict are what's winning this team ball games. They are the identity of this defense, which make this team go. I think you have to keep them in place. Yes, we have AJ Green, but outside of him I really think this group of 4 on defense is the next most valuable, looking at them as a whole.

Get Dre a competitive deal and build off the grouping of him, Whit, Boling and Zeitler. Around those two groups, OL, DL+MLB, you can really shape a team. If Dalton continues to grow, you have guys like Kilpatrick and Sanu develop, you add some help in other spots and draft well, then you finally have a real core of players. You have a system, a an identity, and a face. I really think that's what this team has missed for so long. They seemed to build a lot of teams through adding random players, and attempting to fill round wholes with square pegs. This group to me, finally gives this team a true face.

Also, get Atkins his deal this offseason as well. Don't let him go into his final year, where he's playing on a rookie deal and decides to not negotiate in season and wait it out for FA.

1.) Keep these guys.(MJ, Smith, extend rework Atkins early) No excuse not to, and every deserves their money and deserves their spot
2.) Have Sanu/ Jones develop into a legit 2 or sign someone.
3.) Add a complimentary speed back via draft or FA
4.) Add a solid pair to play the OLB spots, or add one and hope Howard is back at 2011 form
5.) Draft reasonably well. Add depth, cut the need for so many band aids moving forward. A few are needed everywhere, but bringing in the Manny Lawsons, Nate Clements, Jason Allens, Terrance Newmans of the world every other year needs to be minimalized to a degree.

6.) And last but not least... Hope Andy can make the jump from the QB 11-15 range to the 5-8 range, and you have yourself a legitimate year in and year division and overall league contender for quite awhile.

I agree with everything you said, other than the fact that we must keep MJ. I think he is slightly over rated in this forum.

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by graphicguy

Not feeling this. If they were going to sign Smith, they would have thrown an extension offer out there before the season started. They didn't even make a low ball offer. This season has been his best, although I think it was the Dallas game he got beat like drum.

While I don't consider him a bust, was he worth a high 1st round draft pick? Not hardly.....not even close. If he wants to bolt, let him. I'm sure Mike Brown and Marvin feel more than a little let down by his tenure here. It started badly (hold out, out of shape, foot injury) and only became better because he's in a contract year.

I'd offer him an incentive laden contract, but he seems to be all about guaranteed money. We've already seen where that's got him.

I understand what you're getting at, with offering Andre the extension before the season began. But, there was still some proving to do on Andre's part. Not having to prove his football abilities, as much as proving he could maintain his health over the course of an entire season. He has accomplished that, now I say give the man a healthy contract.

[umkubas]

The cry of "Goodbye Andre Smith" has brought the complete rehash of the 4 years and every snap that Smith has completed for the Cincinnati Bengals.

Did not the running back(s) of the Cincinnati Bengals accomplished four consectutive 100 yard games in Weeks 11-14 in the 2012 National Football League schedule mainly running off the right side?

This song of "Goodbye Andre Smith" is one that is most interesting and will add drama to the offseason for the management of the Cincinnati Bengals.

[BengalRugby]

Not feeling this. If they were going to sign Smith, they would have thrown an extension offer out there before the season started. They didn't even make a low ball offer. This season has been his best, although I think it was the Dallas game he got beat like drum.

While I don't consider him a bust, was he worth a high 1st round draft pick? Not hardly.....not even close. If he wants to bolt, let him. I'm sure Mike Brown and Marvin feel more than a little let down by his tenure here. It started badly (hold out, out of shape, foot injury) and only became better because he's in a contract year.

I'd offer him an incentive laden contract, but he seems to be all about guaranteed money. We've already seen where that's got him.


Isn't this the same line of thinking the people used to rationalize letting Justin Smith go? He wasn't worth the #4 draft pick position.


While I agree Andre has not proved worthy of his high draft status, I believe that the last two years have evidenced his growth as a player. In addition, I do not place much stock in the idea of the team not approaching him earlier in the year for an extention is evidence his will not get re-signed. If that were the case, then many Bengals will also not be re-signed, including MJ. Clearly, that is not the case, in addition to the fact that Marvin always touting how much he enjoys players playing in a contract year.


I understand you might not want his re-signed, and might not think there is value in doing so, but I wanted to show that the reasons you gave are not completely correct. I would also like to see him with an incentive ladel contract. I think we all want to see players with incentive ladel contracts, and Andre's incentives have worked well the last 2 seasons. No worries though, I have a lot of faith in the guy and see the other side of the coin.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

No kidding! If that were the case, the roster would be filled with has-beens, never-was-es, "players with potential," Dez Briscoe, Odell Thurman, and even Chad Johnson.

The 2013 Bengals are going to be fantastic and Andre Smith is a big part of this team's success. Sure, he gets beat by a speed rush from time to time but who doesn't? Even Willie Anderson and Levi Jones got beat at times. So did Anthony Munoz, albeit less than anyone else, um, ever. The point is that Andre is a terrific player and, even more important, he is a changed man. He no longer retains the services of his original agent, he is in terrific shape for a full-figured fellow, and he is a team player. I actually see Andre as the Bengals' future left tackle once Andrew Whitworth decides to call it a career because -- Why do people forget this? -- Andre's natural position is left tackle, not right. He played left tackle for the Crimson Tide.

I KNOW andre smith has issues at times and i don't like it either, but i feel like all linemen are pressured at times. he is a very quality run blocker and for the most part he gets it done.i do believe marvin will make the right call along with his staff come time to talk time and money.he knows andy is the man and he has to be protected.

[CincySin21]

I must be the only one watching the games that see Smith SMASHING people in the run game. He is a beast. Sure his pass blocking is the weakest part of his game, but its better than most. Hes is a way better tackle than Whit, but thats not saying much, like Bobbie Williams, and Willie anderson OVER RATED.

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Not feeling this. If they were going to sign Smith, they would have thrown an extension offer out there before the season started. They didn't even make a low ball offer. This season has been his best, although I think it was the Dallas game he got beat like drum.

While I don't consider him a bust, was he worth a high 1st round draft pick? Not hardly.....not even close. If he wants to bolt, let him. I'm sure Mike Brown and Marvin feel more than a little let down by his tenure here. It started badly (hold out, out of shape, foot injury) and only became better because he's in a contract year.

I'd offer him an incentive laden contract, but he seems to be all about guaranteed money. We've already seen where that's got him.


Isn't this the same line of thinking the people used to rationalize letting Justin Smith go? He wasn't worth the #4 draft pick position.


While I agree Andre has not proved worthy of his high draft status, I believe that the last two years have evidenced his growth as a player. In addition, I do not place much stock in the idea of the team not approaching him earlier in the year for an extention is evidence his will not get re-signed. If that were the case, then many Bengals will also not be re-signed, including MJ. Clearly, that is not the case, in addition to the fact that Marvin always touting how much he enjoys players playing in a contract year.


I understand you might not want his re-signed, and might not think there is value in doing so, but I wanted to show that the reasons you gave are not completely correct. I would also like to see him with an incentive ladel contract. I think we all want to see players with incentive ladel contracts, and Andre's incentives have worked well the last 2 seasons. No worries though, I have a lot of faith in the guy and see the other side of the coin.

Good points.....Rugby.

But, Justin didn't show up to camp grossly overweight and unable to participate. He didn't take his first two seasons off (be they for injury, or being unmotivated...which Smith did).

It's crap shoot when you draft that high....no doubt.

In Smith's case, I think he's one of those guys who really isn't motivated. I think his zenith came and went in college. Look at him and a guy like Zeitler and you see the difference in someone who has the atheltic gifts to play football and truly wants to play NFL football, and a guy who has the physical gifts, but really doesn't want to play NFL football (except he can't turn down the money).

The team can find as good, or better, for less money than it would take to extend Smith. Let someone else over pay him and HOPE he lives up to what they're paying him.

[umkubas]

Graphic guy:

Well used noun in zenith.......an ability to use the Ebglish language is at times lacking on Jungle Noise.

The comparison with "Bustin'" Smith is accurate. I am amazed that "Bustin' " Smith bares no resemblance to the player that was employed by the Cincinnati Bengals.

Your statement "Let someone else over pay him and HOPE he lives up to what they're paying him" is laced with the ability to predict the future. What if Andre Smith dominates the National Football League for years on another National Football League franchise?

[Benny the dog]

Originally Posted by LeTigre

It was his first contract - he got 21 million guaranteed. The only problem was that the Raiders overpaid for Heyward-Bey and the Bengals didn't want to give a contract based on that. Also this talk in this thread about the Monroe deal makes little sense. He signed a very similar contract but Smith got more guaranteed money. The additional year would only have been very significant if they turned out to be busts and wouldn't be getting a new contract somewhere. Neither players have been.

Here are the top 20 draft contracts of 09. As you can see, there isn't a major problem with the contract he got from the Bengals. It's pretty much in the range it should be.

1. Detroit - QB, Matthew Stafford, Georgia - Signed (6-years, $72 million; $41.7 million guaranteed)
2. St. Louis - OT, Jason Smith, Baylor - Signed (6-years, $61.75M max; $33M guaranteed)
3. Kansas City - DE, Tyson Jackson, LSU - Signed (5-years, $57M; $31M guaranteed)
4. Seattle - LB, Aaron Curry, Wake Forest - Signed (6-years, $60M; $34M guaranteed)
5. NY Jets (fr. CLE) - QB, Mark Sanchez, USC - Signed (5-years; $50.5M real/$60M max; $28M guaranteed)
6. Cincinnati - OT, Andre Smith, Alabama - Signed (4-years, $26M; $21M guaranteed)
7. Oakland - WR, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland - Signed (5-years, $38.25M real/$54M max; $23.5M guaranteed)
8. Jacksonville - OT, Eugene Monroe, Virginia - Signed (5-years, $35.4M; $19.2M guaranteed)
9. Green Bay - DT, B.J. Raji, Boston College - Signed (5-years, $28.5M; $17.7M guaranteed)
10. San Francisco - WR, Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech - Signed (6-years, $32M; $17M guaranteed)
11. Buffalo - DE, Aaron Maybin, Penn State - Signed (5-years, $24.6M: $14.24M guaranteed)
12. Denver - RB, Knowshon Moreno, Georgia - Signed (5-years, $23M max; $13.125M guaranteed)
13. Washington - DE, Brian Orakpo, Texas - Signed (5-years, $20M; $12.1M guaranteed)
14. New Orleans - CB, Malcolm Jenkins, Ohio State - Signed (5-years, $19M; $11M guaranteed)
15. Houston - LB, Brian Cushing, USC - Signed (5-years, $18M; $10.435M guaranteed)
16. San Diego - LB, Larry English, Northern Illinois - Signed (5-years, $17.95M; $9.905M guaranteed)
17. Tampa Bay (fr. CLE/NYJ) - QB, Josh Freeman, Kansas State - Signed (5-years, $36M; $10.245M guaranteed)
18. Denver (fr. CHI) - DE, Robert Ayers, Tennessee - Signed (5-years, $15.5M; $9.7M guaranteed)
19. Philadelphia (fr. CLE/T - WR, Jeremy Maclin, Missouri - Signed (5-years, $15.6M; $9.5M guaranteed)
20. Detroit (fr. DAL) - TE, Brandon Pettigrew, Oklahoma State - Signed (5-years, $14.6M max; $9.3965M guaranteed)

Andre signed a 6 year deal that could be shortened to 4 by the Bengals after the first two years. The Bengals shortened the deal. If Andre had been consistent during the first two years and got the full six year deal his deal would have dwarfed Monroe's but his struggles during his first year and injuries in his second year resulted in the Bengals declining to pick up the last two years. The Bengals likely will have to let some talent leave. They will have the room to fit them under the cap this year but each succeeding year the cap will get tighter. The recent good drafts have meant that a number of good players will want to get paid --Atkins, Gresch, Greeen, Dalton, are all coming up and so signing MJ, and Dre will be fine this year but in 2-3 years --their big cap hit will be happening at the same time as Geno/Green/Dalton and that will be a problem

Bengals should be able to front load some contracts as they can free up money by dumping large contracts like Allen, Clements and not re-signing Ray and Geathers

[Night's Watch]

Originally Posted by umkubas

Graphic guy:

Well used noun in zenith.......an ability to use the Ebglish language is at times lacking on Jungle Noise.

That darn Ebglish language.....if only there was a spelling check button for pots calling kettles black.

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by umkubas

Graphic guy:

Well used noun in zenith.......an ability to use the Ebglish language is at times lacking on Jungle Noise.

The comparison with "Bustin'" Smith is accurate. I am amazed that "Bustin' " Smith bares no resemblance to the player that was employed by the Cincinnati Bengals.

Your statement "Let someone else over pay him and HOPE he lives up to what they're paying him" is laced with the ability to predict the future. What if Andre Smith dominates the National Football League for years on another National Football League franchise?

I understand what you're saying. Personally, I didn't think Justin played badly for us. He was another one who just played better later in his career than sooner. That said, I never questioned his motivation to play. With Andre Smith, I do.

I think letting another team benefit from a high draft pick is something most teams face. You tie up the players you want to keep early in their career to get some ROI on the big signing bonuses (at least that was before the new contrat went into place).

Given his spotty performance and questionable motivation, I think it's more likely Andre's best is in the present, not the future. I'd let him walk if he wants.

However, since motivation is what he needs, I'd be willing to sign him to a contract loaded with lots of performance bonuses and let him make a ton of money if he performs the way we expected him to all along.

[Hammerstripes]

If having 1 of the top RTs in the game isn't worthy of the #6 overall pick, then I don't know what to tell you. Andre has lived up to that billing.

Justin Smith was never considered a top 4-3 DE. Never. He didn't live up to his draft status here.

Had we drafted him as a DT or a 4-3 DE then maybe things would be quite different. I still wouldn't want Smith on this team as a 4-3 DE. He just wasn't a very good pass rusher from that position.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

If having 1 of the top RTs in the game isn't worthy of the #6 overall pick, then I don't know what to tell you. Andre has lived up to that billing.

Justin Smith was never considered a top 4-3 DE. Never. He didn't live up to his draft status here.

Had we drafted him as a DT or a 4-3 DE then maybe things would be quite different. I still wouldn't want Smith on this team as a 4-3 DE. He just wasn't a very good pass rusher from that position.

Smith was pretty consistant though.. Not a great pass rusher but then again we had John Thorton at DT (probly should have reversed that)

But his last few years here were when the Defense was dropping like flys his last year they had him dropping back alot while supporting the run due to only have 2 LBers on the active roster.

But you cant say he ****** here or he would never have gotten the contract offer he did from the 49ers.

[Hammerstripes]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

Smith was pretty consistant though.. Not a great pass rusher but then again we had John Thorton at DT (probly should have reversed that)

But his last few years here were when the Defense was dropping like flys his last year they had him dropping back alot while supporting the run due to only have 2 LBers on the active roster.

But you cant say he ****** here or he would never have gotten the contract offer he did from the 49ers.

I wouldn't say that he stunk here, but he wasn't worth the money that the 49ers gave him. Keep in mind that Justin was initially playing OLB in the 3-4 when he got to SF. He wasn't very good at that position and was considered a disappointment. It wasn't until he got moved inside that he flourished.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I wouldn't say that he stunk here, but he wasn't worth the money that the 49ers gave him. Keep in mind that Justin was initially playing OLB in the 3-4 when he got to SF. He wasn't very good at that position and was considered a disappointment. It wasn't until he got moved inside that he flourished.

Oh i agree... thats why hes not a bengal...