Deep Ball Numbers...featuring Andy Dalton

[Hammerthis]

[quote=Joelist;2748526][quote=Hammerthis;2748478]

Congratulations. You just proved the point - you couldn't even explain why you show up in every thread even tangentially talking about Andy and diss him - without dissing him.


Ah, I have idea. You write you're post the way you want to and I write mine the way I want to. How about that, see how that works? Because that's exactly what I did in the post you're referring to.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by Joelist

And if we could actually block properly inside he would be able to step into his throw and we would be okay.

Amazing what can happen when an actual pocket exists, allowing a QB to step up into a throw, isn't it? Kind of like the 21 yarder on Dalton's last throw in Pitt. Right.On.The.Money.

[Joelist]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

Amazing what can happen when an actual pocket exists, allowing a QB to step up into a throw, isn't it? Kind of like the 21 yarder on Dalton's last throw in Pitt. Right.On.The.Money.

Yep.

[OSUfan]

[quote=Hammerthis;2748478]

Originally Posted by Joelist

Perhaps you and OSUfan should tell me and other's who think differently, what's the "proper way" to state our OPINIONS. Also, you seem to be with the "in crowd" so tell us what to say too.
I like Dalton as person but he's a very average QB playing on a highly talented football team. I've been pulling for the Bengals since the early 80's in HS. I want to see a dominating offense again where we crush teams. I don't see that happening with Dalton at QB. I live very close to TCU, went to most of the home games the past 6 years, intensely cheered for Dalton and evaluated his weaknesses.
Without even looking up you're previous posts Joelist, I'm willing to bet you're opinions on player personnel have been proving wrong more so than right.
Starting with Burfict, I'm batting with a 1000 avg on player personnel. During preseason the "in crowd" claimed Skuta was a much better LB than Burfict. Not something to write home about huh?

You continue to call him average and other adjectives yet the numbers state differently. So is Manning average? The numbers state that Andy is inline with some rare company for his second season. However you refuse to admit a simple glaring fact. .....

He is a second year QB! You seem to expect him to be showing the values of an 8 year pro. He is not perfect and in his second season no one that is sane would expect him to be. What he is is a gritty competitor that it always going to work his tail off to help his team. He is a smart player that will continue to learn.

Is he the most physically gifted? Absolutely not. But the talent he has he will learn to maximize. Will he be a Manning? Probably not. However as I have stated many times before he may very well end up being a Kenny Anderson 2.0 which I will take all day.

[Hammerthis]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

[QUOTE OSUfan

I have finally figured it out. Hammer is actually Carson.

Seriously man get off Andy's A. $. $. No two years at the NFL level is not enough to be at Brady or Manning level. His collegiate career has squat to do with it. Manning had a long collegiate career and Andy's are on pace with his for his second season. Just admit you dislike him for no valid reason.

Don't try that temper tantrum crap with me mister!
In regards to Andys QB performance, I've stated my reasons why and you know it OSUfan. I think Andys a great guy.
In 2 years Andy should be at Brady and Manning's level?? Don't put words into my mouth, I find it "Repugnant."
I've stated many times before that "I think we could win with Dalton, just not dominate offensively."
There's just know middle ground with you.
I'll stop critiquing Dalton when the season ends and wait until the 8th game of next season. Let's all hope for the best.

[Hammerthis]

[quote=OSUfan;2748599][quote=OSUfan
You continue to call him average and other adjectives yet the numbers state differently. So is Manning average? The numbers state that Andy is inline with some rare company for his second season. However you refuse to admit a simple glaring fact. .....
He is a second year QB! You seem to expect him to be showing the values of an 8 year pro. He is not perfect and in his second season no one that is sane would expect him to be. What he is is a gritty competitor that it always going to work his tail off to help his team. He is a smart player that will continue to learn.
Is he the most physically gifted? Absolutely not. But the talent he has he will learn to maximize. Will he be a Manning? Probably not. However as I have stated many times before he may very well end up being a Kenny Anderson 2.0 which I will take all day.[/QUOTE]

IMHO that good QBs positive numbers FAR out weight their negatives. I'm pulling for him on Sundays and I hope he proves me and others wrong.
Oh, Andy's ranked 15 in the NFL as a QB, thats avg.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by Hammerthis

IMHO that good QBs positive numbers FAR out weight their negatives. I'm pulling for him on Sundays and I hope he proves me and others wrong.
Oh, Andy's ranked 15 in the NFL as a QB, thats avg.

What in the hell are you doing to screw up the quotations like that??!!

[OSUfan]

[quote=Hammerthis;2748671]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

IMHO that good QBs positive numbers FAR out weight their negatives. I'm pulling for him on Sundays and I hope he proves me and others wrong.
Oh, Andy's ranked 15 in the NFL as a QB, thats avg.

Are you just playing ignorant or do you really just not get it? Of those ranked above him in this season how many are second year players? For that matter how many are second year second round players?

You continue to judge him against proven veteran QBs which at this point he is not.

[old man]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

He often does this but not consistently. It will come in the natural maturation. Seems to be what many do not understand.

It's called touch. OSU, It seems like you've been around a while. Do you renember the deep passes Jeff Blake threw, they looked like they just dropped stright down at times. he had one of the best arcs on the football I've ever seen. Maybe Marvin could get Blake in here in off season to work with Dalton. Shoot It couldn't hurt.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Hammerthis

Don't try that temper tantrum crap with me mister!
In regards to Andys QB performance, I've stated my reasons why and you know it OSUfan. I think Andys a great guy.
In 2 years Andy should be at Brady and Manning's level?? Don't put words into my mouth, I find it "Repugnant."
I've stated many times before that "I think we could win with Dalton, just not dominate offensively."
There's just know middle ground with you.
I'll stop critiquing Dalton when the season ends and wait until the 8th game of next season. Let's all hope for the best.

And I'll bet you can't keep your mouth shut that long. P.S. I'm not one of the board greats, but you get on my nerves too.

[BengalsBong]

When we throw the deep ball most of the time it is a sideline pass so that just makes the pass that much harder to throw.Run routes that dont carry the WR out of bounds and make him try to tap 2 feet down in bounds while catching a 40 yard bomb.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by old man

It's called touch. OSU, It seems like you've been around a while. Do you renember the deep passes Jeff Blake threw, they looked like they just dropped stright down at times. he had one of the best arcs on the football I've ever seen. Maybe Marvin could get Blake in here in off season to work with Dalton. Shoot It couldn't hurt.

Absolutely Jeff Blake threw a fantastic deep ball. It was a shame that was all he did. Blake infuriated me. The guy had real wheels but would take a sack rather than to run when the field was wide open for him.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Absolutely Jeff Blake threw a fantastic deep ball. It was a shame that was all he did. Blake infuriated me. The guy had real wheels but would take a sack rather than to run when the field was wide open for him.

He was coached to stay in the pocket. The Bengals tried to make him more of a conventional QB. As for the deep ball, it was the best I've ever seen, but after 94, teams started to take that away somewhat. I've watched some games from 95 recently and Blake was solid on short to mid range throws as well (when he had time).

I watched one game where Blake was hitting Pick, Scott and McGee on mostly short-medium throws and led us to a 31-14 lead over the Steelers. Neil O'Donnell wound up leading the Steelers on 5 consecutive TD drives and we lost 49-31. Blake was a good QB, we just had some of the worst defenses that the NFL has ever seen back then.

[Jay62107]

Originally Posted by jack1953

+1 I believe that will be Sanu.

Sanu wasn't really a #2 he played more in the slot.

[w8ing 4 '08]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Throws of 41+ yards (passer rating in parenthesis)

1. Schaub- 3-4-164-2-0 (156.3)
2. Brees- 4-6-223-2-0 (149.3)
3. Stafford- 6-11-303-2-0 (139.2)
4. Rapist- 3-9-179-2-0 (121.5)
5. Foles- 1-3-44-1-0 (121.5)
6. Griffin- 4-13-246-4-0 (119.4)
7. Bradford- 2-8-101-2-0 (118.8)
8. Weeden- 1-6-62-1-0 (109.7)
9. Hasselbeck- 1-6-30-1-0 (87.5)
10. A.Smith- 1-3-55-0-0 (81.9)
Newton- 4-12-206-0-0 (81.9)
12. Dalton- 2-7-105-1-1 (79.2)
Palmer- 1-4-58-0-0 (79.2)
14. Cutler- 2-8-98-1-1 (78.1)
15. Flacco- 2-16-99-1-0 (73.7)
16. Ryan- 3-10-157-1-1 (72.9)
17. Wilson- 3-11-147-1-3 (69.9)
18. Freeman- 3-12-159-1-2 (67.4)
19. Luck- 2-12-90-1-2 (46.5)
20. Ponder- 1-3-54-0-1 (42.4)
21. Brady- 0-6-0-0-0 (39.6)
Peyton- 0-1-0-0-0 (39.6)
Eli- 0-2-0-0-0 (39.6)
Fitzp- 0-4-0-0-0 (39.6)
Cassel- 0-1-0-0-0 (39.6)
Tannehill- 0-2-0-0-0 (39.6)
Gabbert- 0-2-0-0-0 (39.6)
Henne- 0-1-0-0-0 (39.6)
29. Romo- 2-12-114-0-2 (27.1)
30. Vick- 2-12-95-0-1 (25.3)
31. Rodgers- 1-6-52-0-1 (23.6)
32. Rivers- 0-4-0-0-1 (0.0)
Sanchez- 0-5-0-0-1 (0.0)
Locker- 0-5-0-0-2 (0.0)

Completion % on throws over 20 yards

1. A.Smith- 47.1%
2. Ryan- 44.4%
3. Hasselbeck- 43.9%
4. Griffin- 41.9%
5. Brees- 41.4%
6. Peyton- 39.7%
7. Rodgers- 39.6%
Newton- 39.6%
9. Eli- 37.7%
10. Freeman- 36.9%
11. Locker- 36.5%
12. Wilson- 34.0%
13. Brady- 33.3%
Tannehill- 33.3%
15. Schaub- 32.6%
Sanchez- 32.6%
17. Flacco- 32.5%
18. Luck- 31.3%
19. Rivers- 31.3%
20. Bradford- 30.9%
21. Henne- 29.4%
Cassel- 29.4%
23. Cutler- 28.8%
Romo- 28.8%
Stafford- 28.8%
26. Vick- 25.6%
27. Dalton- 25.0%
Gabbert- 25.0%
29. Palmer- 22.4%
30. Foles- 22.2%
31. Roeth- 21.6%
Weeden- 21.6%
33. Fitzp- 21.4%
34. Ponder- 16.7%

Notes:

- In 2011, Dalton completed 42.9% of his throws over 20 yards. That would've been the 4th best % this year.

- Why did Dalton's completion % on 21+ yard throws drop from 42.9% last year to 25.0% this year? Perhaps because Jerome Simpson > Binns/Tate/Jones?

- In 2011, Dalton went 3-6-131-2-1 (95.8 passer rating) on throws of 41+ yards. So for his career, he is 5-13-236-3-2 on long bombs, which is very good when compared to his peers.

- Only qualifying QBs were included.

I think these numbers prove that Andy does not have a problem with deep throws. Especially when you look at his % from last year which was outstanding. The difference is obvious. Simpson was a legit #2 that teams had to respect. This year, we've had 4 different #2 wr's, and only one of them made any sort of impact.

No offense, but I don't believe these numbers mean that much. Some of the players on this list (RG3, Alex Smith) complete a higher percentage of deep balls because the deep balls are more available in their respective offenses.

To simplify, Dalton hasn't been able to master his deep ball in games this year because opposing teams are paranoid concerning AJ Green. Alex Smith and RG3 have very balanced offenses that don't rely on the deep ball as much, and as a result, can throw easy long balls that are wide open.

If there is anyone to blame for the porous deep ball numbers, I believe it is Jay Gruden. Our offense has deteriorated throughout the year.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Jay62107

Sanu wasn't really a #2 he played more in the slot.

Wrong! He played outside on two receiver sets and moved inside on multiple receiver sets. Much like TJ used to do.

[Ron Mexico]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wrong! He played outside on two receiver sets and moved inside on multiple receiver sets. Much like TJ used to do.

He did say that he played "more" in the slot, not "only" in the slot. Which would be true.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Ron Mexico

He did say that he played "more" in the slot, not "only" in the slot. Which would be true.

However moving to the slot in multiple receiver sets does nothing to indicate he was not playing as the #2 when he is on the field opposite AJ in two receiver sets. Anything else?

So do you dispute that TJ was #2?

[Ron Mexico]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

However moving to the slot in multiple receiver sets does nothing to indicate he was not playing as the #2 when he is on the field opposite AJ in two receiver sets. Anything else?

So do you dispute that TJ was #2?

Nope, I just like disagreeing with you.