Draft analysis vs 4

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

I think the phrase dominant is overused.
Those "dominant" games, I just didn't see as dominant. He has good games every game because he is surrounded by elite talent and is incredibly smart. No denying that.
But he isn't winning battles one on one with the guys I would want him to think he could handle the leagues best NT in the NFL.

I would absolutely take him for value in the 2nd. But I do not see him as the type of guy I would take in the first. If you take an OL in the first round, it is my opinion that he should start day one. If he wont start day one for you, he isn't worth the first round pick to your team.

I think his best value in the NFL will be at LG. Jones does a lot of things good. But in order for me to say he would be a good pick as early as 19 or whatever, he would have to be the physical type like a Nick Mangold or an Alex Mack.

Without that physicality, I don't think he would be as much of an upgrade as we think at C. First round, no. Second round, yes.

I agree with you about dominant being overly used.... what I don't agree with is automatically targeting players to start day one in the 1st round.... Smith wasn't a day 1 starter (More because of injury). I am not a fan of just handing a position to a guy just because he is a 1st round pick. Yes those guys usually come in football ready, but you have to earn it.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

I agree with you about dominant being overly used.... what I don't agree with is automatically targeting players to start day one in the 1st round.... Smith wasn't a day 1 starter (More because of injury). I am not a fan of just handing a position to a guy just because he is a 1st round pick. Yes those guys usually come in football ready, but you have to earn it.

I didn't say you should. But there are certain positions where you should.
To me, OL is one of them. If you cant start from day one, you probably aren't worth the pick.
What first round OL who didn't start as a rookie (at all) went on to live up to expectations?
Smith should have if not for his laziness and greed.

You don't hand them the job, they get the job because there is no one there to have it.
Zeitler got the job because we had no one at RG. Was that wrong to do? No. I never said to hand him the job. But if you take a first round OL it likely means you have a glaring need there. We don't. They should be starters. OL is one of a few spots I would think this about.

And that is why I don't want Jones in the first. He would sit. For how long is a mystery. What if Cook comes back and is killer with two young talented guards? What do we do with Jones then?

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

I didn't say you should. But there are certain positions where you should.
To me, OL is one of them. If you cant start from day one, you probably aren't worth the pick.
What first round OL who didn't start as a rookie (at all) went on to live up to expectations?
Smith should have if not for his laziness and greed.

You don't hand them the job, they get the job because there is no one there to have it.
Zeitler got the job because we had no one at RG. Was that wrong to do? No. I never said to hand him the job. But if you take a first round OL it likely means you have a glaring need there. We don't. They should be starters. OL is one of a few spots I would think this about.

And that is why I don't want Jones in the first. He would sit. For how long is a mystery. What if Cook comes back and is killer with two young talented guards? What do we do with Jones then?

I can play the what if game too... what if Cook is terrible? Or if Cook is injured again? Or Jones is just plain better? A lot of variables to consider.... This may sound weird because as Bengals fans we don't see it often if ever, but we actually have some decent depth on the roster all across (IMHO anyway). So anyone you pick will either be better than what you have or have the dreaded word "potential". Just curious who would you consider?

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Cincy's Best

I can play the what if game too... what if Cook is terrible? Or if Cook is injured again? Or Jones is just plain better? A lot of variables to consider.... This may sound weird because as Bengals fans we don't see it often if ever, but we actually have some decent depth on the roster all across (IMHO anyway). So anyone you pick will either be better than what you have or have the dreaded word "potential". Just curious who would you consider?

You don't draft for injuries.
Cook has by the large been healthy.
Cook was good enough to get an extension recently. So I don't think we will spend a first on a replacement until we see Cook with Boling and Zeitler.

We do not have decent depth across the board IMO.
We lack key depth at DE, FS, RB, WR, SS, WLB, MLB, SLB
We have alright talent to start at some spots but no real depth. You have to figure only one guy has a for sure spot in 2013 at LB and that's Burfict. Lawson is gonna be gone, Howard is 30 and coming off a bad ACL injury. Rey is inconsistent and a FA.

I get what you're trying to say, but center just isnt a top need for 2013. Cook has been good enough in years past to make it a non-issue when compared to us not having anything penciled in at several spots.

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

You don't draft for injuries.
Cook has by the large been healthy.
Cook was good enough to get an extension recently. So I don't think we will spend a first on a replacement until we see Cook with Boling and Zeitler.

We do not have decent depth across the board IMO.
We lack key depth at DE, FS, RB, WR, SS, WLB, MLB, SLB
We have alright talent to start at some spots but no real depth. You have to figure only one guy has a for sure spot in 2013 at LB and that's Burfict. Lawson is gonna be gone, Howard is 30 and coming off a bad ACL injury. Rey is inconsistent and a FA.

I get what you're trying to say, but center just isnt a top need for 2013. Cook has been good enough in years past to make it a non-issue when compared to us not having anything penciled in at several spots.

I am not trying to say anything, I am saying it.

DE.... We have Dunlop and MJ, as well as Gilberry (who has been a pleasant surprise), the only one I would consider replacing is Geathers (but he does a good job in his role). A 2nd round pick for DE like Bjoern Werner or Alex Okafor (who I think have a good chance to fall that far)

FS.... If the purpose is to pick the BPA, then name 1 quality 1st round safety? I don't really see any ahead of Jones as the BPA.... RB, SS and even WR are the same....

WR.... I actually feel we are set at WR, Green has the top spot on lock, Sanu has shown up and I think M. Jones will come into his own as well.

LBer... I see your point... I think Rey has been decent (agree on inconsistent) and I would replace him for Te'o if he fell that far to us. I would also take Jarvis Jones and move Burfict to MIKE if he were available, or leave Burfict alone and put Jones opposite him. However those 2 are probably not gonna make it to us (though you never know).... This class seems to have some pretty good depth at LB, C.J. Mosley, Chase Thomas, Shane Skov, and many more that look to be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I can also see us resigning Rey, (if he is as bad as many fans believe him to be then resigning him wouldn't be a problem as what team would target him, plus never underestimate the power of loyalty).

RB... I like Randall for a 2nd round pick, but that is it... I am not impressed with the RBs in this class (I may be the only one)... If Lattimore didn't get injured then I would be interested in him... but he did, so unless he is still there in the 5-CFL range then I wouldn't chance the pick on him....