What can the Bengals learn from this years final four playoff teams?

[stonyhands]

Talented players will get you so far but good to great coaching is what's needed to win a Championship.

[jack1953]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

OK ... I can't explain myself any better than I have. Abspara said we ranked 22nd in offense. You replied to his post and said that he was incorrect in his ranking of the Bengals offense. He was in fact correct ... we did rank 22nd in offense by the traditional manner of ranking offenses.

I understand that you used a different ranking system than the ones I used. I get that part of what you are saying. We agree.

5% of my post was pointing out that with the system I used, they were 12th not 22nd.

The other 95% of the post was to look at the season rankings of the playoff teams, according to the system I linked, and then, based upon those numbers, summarize how the games went so far, and to give my opinion and explanation thereof, on what I've seen and learned up to this point in the playoffs, which was in tune with the original post.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by Karp

I noticed that Atlanta had time outs to use during their last drive. Maybe time management could be another good lesson learned. There is no excuse to be out of timeouts by the end of the 3rd Qtr.

I thought the Seattle Coach pulled a "Marvin" with that timeout that allowed the kicker to adjust.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by ThunderCloud

I think we need to observe that when Tom Brady comes to the line and sees what he expected to see, he doesn't **** around with everybody in their stance forever, he takes the snap and runs the play.

Then he gets everybody ready to do it again in short order. Not always in hurry up, but he keeps that offense moving.

I really thought the Bengals would go up tempo to compensate for offensive weaknesses, but they DIDN'T. Brady makes it look easy and the Patriot players are always ready for the snap. The Bengals could hardly get the play sent in let alone run up tempo.

[Morning Star]

that Bill guy with the Patroits is such a perfectionist, not happy unless he wins the superbowl..I don't think I would want Marvin like that, but he does win..

[Siete Uno Uno]

I learned whats the point of having two tight ends and not playing them; oh wait, thats what the Patriots did to BEAT THE TEXANS!!! Jay Gruden if you are here next season, get with the program and use Orson and Gresham together. This could've helped with the lack of production from our OFFENSE!!!

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by jack1953

Using the links below for total team offense and defense for 2012, you are incorrect in your ranking of the Bengal offense. Here is the breakdown of the playoff teams offensive and defensive rankings:

Team ........ Offense Rankings.... Defense Rankings
Patriots.....................1.................... ..........9
Broncos....................2...................... ........4
Redskins...................4...................... ......22
Packers....................5...................... .......11
Falcons.....................7..................... ........5
Texans......................8..................... ........10
Seahawks................ 9..............................1
Ravens.....................10..................... .......12
49ers........................11................... ..........2
Bengals....................12..................... ........8
Vikings.....................14.................... ........15
Colts........................16................... ..........21

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm

Interesting how these numbers played out so far with the teams that are left:

Patriots - They have the number 1 offense and a top ten defense, but also Tom Brady . He is the ONLY QB, in my opinion, that could win even with a lower ranked defense!!

Broncos - They have the best numbers with the number 2 offense and number 4 defense! What happened? Their defense played very poor and Manning made a rookie mistake at the end of the game that cost him the win!!

Redskins - Good offense but very low defense and a rookie QB. Defense wins ballgames......except for Tom Brady !!

Packers - Number 5 offense and number 11 defense. They lost to the Niners who had a lower ranked offense (11) but the number 2 defense. Between Rodgers and Manning, it proves that great QBs are not enough..............except for Tom Brady!!

Falcons - Number 7 offense and number 5 defense with a QB, after 3, count them 3 playoff losses, finally matured into a winner with a clutch game winning drive!

Texans - A good balance of offense (8) and defense (10) but had the unfortunate luck of the draw to face Tom Brady!!

Seahawks - Even though they had a top 10 offense (9) and the number 1 defense, they had a rookie QB who lost to a QB who has been there who had experience (3 previous playoff games) and matured into a winner!

Ravens - A decent balance this year on offense (10) and defense (12) and were fortunate to play a game where the Bronco defense didn't show up and Manning made the uncharacteristic like rookie mistake at the end of the game, and the Ravens are also riding on the Ray Lewis retirement high.

49ers - Good offense (11) number 2 defense, and tons of momentum . Defense wins games, but it will be very interesting to see what happens against Atlanta.

Bengals - Better balance than I realized with offense (12) and defense (8). Offense played horribly and this is also the youngest team in the league. Despite all of that they were in the game all the way and could have won it easily if Dalton hits Green in that last pass.

Vikings - Probably the best balance offense (14) and defense (15) but the balance is in the middle of the pack and they lost their starting QB for the game.

Colts - Middle of the pack offense (16) but lower end defense (21) and a rookie QB.

That's based on yards right?

I've always thought that points was a better measure of an offense or defense.

[eliminate08]

Originally Posted by Karp

If the Bengals as an organization were to use this years final four playoff teams as a case study for success, what can they come away with.

The team the Bengals could learn the most from is the Patriots. They execute on Offense
and keep their Defense fresh. I honestly think we have a better Defense than the Pats but
it doesn't matter if they are on the field all day.

Also, the Pats stepped up and shut down Foster when they needed too. Great teams
show up when it is needed most and the Pats Defense did that for them.

Plus, the Pats ran Slant and Cross routes to exploit the Texans which should be much
easier for Dalton to throw than those outside curls he throws all the time which are very
dangerous to boot.

The coaches could learn the most from the Pats, they were prepared for the Texans in
every aspect.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by eoxyod

Run a multiple offense (As in, no real identity. Just offense). The 49ers and Pats have 8,000 different looks they can give you. Also, make sure even your role players are ready for their moment at any point (Jacoby Jones, Shane Vereen)

They have 8,000 looks and Gruden can't figure out which are the X/s and which are the O's in his playbook.

[THE PISTONS]

The Patriots are all about exploiting matchups. Gronk had a matchup they were exploiting and he got injured and they used Vareen in the same routes and he had multiple TDs.

[Tommy Casanova 72-77]

Did anyone watch how Fox, who is a little bit like a Marvin Lewis type conservative coach going back to carolina...basically reigned in Peyton during the 2nd half.....and seem to be afraid to try and put the game away? The Broncos made plenty of errors sure....but in the last drive before that Horrible prevent D that they played..... 3rd and 7 and you run the ball with Peyton Manning as your QB? You cannot be anymore conservative and obtuse than what Fox was during that game.

Marvin plays not to lose or make mistakes and they always end up losing. Fox, besides his SB appearance with Carolina...... was pretty much a one and done type coach as well.

Sure you need a Defense.....but if your Offense is like the Bengals, you better have a 1985 type Bears defense to try and win. They have a DL that can be like the Giants DL, which basically held Brady down.
But you still have the rules that favor the Offense....therefore... You need an offense that is just better than middle of the pack beacuse you cannot rely on a defense to shut anyone down in the nFL anymore.

[Ian Demagii]

The Bengals have to realize that the league has mandated a passing type game and has enacted rules to make it easier to pass. The lague has also instructed the officials to call the games more tightly.

1) QB's a made of china do not break them-you must cuddle them to hte ground or risk a roughing penalty.

2) Receivers may not be mauled.No more blasting of defenseless receivers-again gently taking them to the ground is the way to go,

3) DB's may not "bother" the receivers after 5 yards

4) O-line may now use their hands much more liberally-hell it seems like holding is called more on running downs anymore.


*The Bengals insist on using a jumbo fullback who is 95% blocker, this takes a playmaker off the field. So too, many times the TE (usually Gresham) must at least chip and go, but many times they have him blocking a DE-this is pure folly-Only Reggie Kelly was able to do this on a regular basis.

The Bengals line is built to run block. Andre Smith is a poor pass blocker. The center is weak, and fails at picking up blitzes up the middle which are all hte rage right now.

The Bengals suffer from having all their receivers very new to the league. There are only a few AJ Greens, and Megatrons around-all other receivers usually take 3 years to develop and TE's can sometimes take 4.

The QB is a poor decision maker with "Esiason's disease"-he locks onto a favored receiver and then chucks the ball over his head. He predetermines where the ball is going and if not open dumps the ball down or chucks it out of bound. Going through his progressions is a Dalton weak point. Sometimes it seems like Neil O'Donnell is the QB coach. Dump it Andy , dump it!

Ian

[jack1953]

Originally Posted by eliminate08

The team the Bengals could learn the most from is the Patriots. They execute on Offense
and keep their Defense fresh. I honestly think we have a better Defense than the Pats but
it doesn't matter if they are on the field all day.

Also, the Pats stepped up and shut down Foster when they needed too. Great teams
show up when it is needed most and the Pats Defense did that for them.

Plus, the Pats ran Slant and Cross routes to exploit the Texans which should be much
easier for Dalton to throw than those outside curls he throws all the time which are very
dangerous to boot.

The coaches could learn the most from the Pats, they were prepared for the Texans in
every aspect.

Disagree. Tom Brady is in a class by himself. He led the Patriots to the AFC Championship one year, with a defense that was ranked in the high 20s. Agree about keeping defense fresh, but when TB is at the helm, your defense gets plenty of rest.

[jack1953]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

That's based on yards right?

I've always thought that points was a better measure of an offense or defense.

Points. Look at the first column in the link.

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by Karp

If the Bengals as an organization were to use this years final four playoff teams as a case study for success, what can they come away with.

Cincy should see these teams and realize they have a good enough defense but nowhere near a good enough offense.

As I've said elsewhere...

GRUDEN MUST GO.

He is AWFUL.

The ONLY stat that matters is that Gruden LOSES to good teams.

1. He cannot move the ball and score points against good teams. Look at Cincy's offensive output vs Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Absolutely wretched. The Giants game now looks like a fluke. The offense did okay against Denver until the 4th quarter when Cincy just needed first downs (not even touchdowns) and couldn't get them. The egg laid vs Miami made me nauseous. The second half of the Cleveland loss made me puke.

2. Gruden is WORSE every time he faces a familiar opponent (usually meaning the second time he faces someone). Good grief, Cincy had just ONE meaningful play in Pittsburgh territory in the win--and that was a pass to get into field goal range. Gruden only beat Balt because our backups played better than Balt's backups. And look at Houston: 19 points, then 10 points, then 6 offensive points. (The only teams' starters that Gruden has beaten in a second meeting were Cleveland in '11, and the offense didn't have a lead until a FG when the clock expired, and Jacksonville in '12--and they were 2-12.)

3. Dalton and Green are NOT progressing. They played in December and January as if they were raw rookies in preseason games. Just completely out of synch. Second seasons are supposed to be much better but this one wasn't when it mattered. There is NO EXCUSE for this passing game falling off a cliff in the second half of '11 and '12. Plus, the pass blocking inexplicably became absolutely atrocious after having a solid stretch of good performances.

4. The IDIOTIC gameplan in the playoffs. Especially that Gruden stuck with it in the second qtr after it failed so miserably in the first qtr. Gruden looked like this was the first game plan he ever made.

5. Gruden CANNOT make in-game adjustments. If his plan doesn't work from the get-go, he has no counter. (If a team is successful getting pressure on Dalton, Gruden STILL calls 5 step drops with long routes--just stupid. And when he calls a screen--that one time in a million--the play is usually botched because he calls them so rarely.) If his plan works, but the other team adjusts to stop it, then Gruden has no counter-adjustment. He simply cannot perform at this level. We've lost way too many games, especially two playoff games (rare gems for this team) because of Gruden. The defense plays its guts out. It deserves better from the offense.

IT'S NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER.

Either (A) Dalton is a good franchise quarterback hamstrung by bad coaching or (B ) Gruden is a good coach and Dalton is a bad quarterback. Why? Because if it's (C) Dalton and Gruden are both performing well, then (D) they both stink and BOTH need replaced. I think it's A.

I am OUTRAGED that Gruden still has his job. I am hoping that Mike Brown didn't fire Gruden simply to make him more attractive to other teams. Otherwise we have yet another incidence of MB's incompetence as a General Manager.

[Cardiackat]

Not being like neither one of those those teams but being their own success..

[jack1953]

Originally Posted by fumetti

Cincy should see these teams and realize they have a good enough defense but nowhere near a good enough offense.

As I've said elsewhere...

GRUDEN MUST GO.

He is AWFUL.

The ONLY stat that matters is that Gruden LOSES to good teams.

1. He cannot move the ball and score points against good teams. Look at Cincy's offensive output vs Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Absolutely wretched. The Giants game now looks like a fluke. The offense did okay against Denver until the 4th quarter when Cincy just needed first downs (not even touchdowns) and couldn't get them. The egg laid vs Miami made me nauseous. The second half of the Cleveland loss made me puke.

2. Gruden is WORSE every time he faces a familiar opponent (usually meaning the second time he faces someone). Good grief, Cincy had just ONE meaningful play in Pittsburgh territory in the win--and that was a pass to get into field goal range. Gruden only beat Balt because our backups played better than Balt's backups. And look at Houston: 19 points, then 10 points, then 6 offensive points. (The only teams' starters that Gruden has beaten in a second meeting were Cleveland in '11, and the offense didn't have a lead until a FG when the clock expired, and Jacksonville in '12--and they were 2-12.)

3. Dalton and Green are NOT progressing. They played in December and January as if they were raw rookies in preseason games. Just completely out of synch. Second seasons are supposed to be much better but this one wasn't when it mattered. There is NO EXCUSE for this passing game falling off a cliff in the second half of '11 and '12. Plus, the pass blocking inexplicably became absolutely atrocious after having a solid stretch of good performances.

4. The IDIOTIC gameplan in the playoffs. Especially that Gruden stuck with it in the second qtr after it failed so miserably in the first qtr. Gruden looked like this was the first game plan he ever made.

5. Gruden CANNOT make in-game adjustments. If his plan doesn't work from the get-go, he has no counter. (If a team is successful getting pressure on Dalton, Gruden STILL calls 5 step drops with long routes--just stupid. And when he calls a screen--that one time in a million--the play is usually botched because he calls them so rarely.) If his plan works, but the other team adjusts to stop it, then Gruden has no counter-adjustment. He simply cannot perform at this level. We've lost way too many games, especially two playoff games (rare gems for this team) because of Gruden. The defense plays its guts out. It deserves better from the offense.

IT'S NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER.

Either (A) Dalton is a good franchise quarterback hamstrung by bad coaching or (B ) Gruden is a good coach and Dalton is a bad quarterback. Why? Because if it's (C) Dalton and Gruden are both performing well, then (D) they both stink and BOTH need replaced. I think it's A.

I am OUTRAGED that Gruden still has his job. I am hoping that Mike Brown didn't fire Gruden simply to make him more attractive to other teams. Otherwise we have yet another incidence of MB's incompetence as a General Manager.

Have you ever coached football on the high school level or above?

[Housh]

I say we cant boo boo on Gruden until we get him a real RB and a real WR core. Running Gruden out of town now would be like Cavs fans getting mad at Byron Scott.......They have like NO talent to wrok with so duh its gonna look bad

[BengalsIronMan]

Originally Posted by Housh

I say we cant boo boo on Gruden until we get him a real RB and a real WR core. Running Gruden out of town now would be like Cavs fans getting mad at Byron Scott.......They have like NO talent to wrok with so duh its gonna look bad

BJGE was more than serviceable