Which Safety is having the better year?

[Jasonew6]

Safety A:
1 INT 0 yds, 0 TDs 35.5 tackles 0 sacks 0 passes defensed 0 forced fumbles 0 TFL

Safety B:
3 INT 129 yds 1 TD 41.5 tackles 1 sack 2 passes defensed 3 forced fumbles 2 TFL

Safety C:
1 INT 0 yds 0 TD 46 tackles 0 sacks 6 passes defensed 1 forced fumble 5 TFL

Rank them 1 - 3.

[AirForce]

Statistically:
1 - B
2 - C
3 - A

But you can't grade a prospect solely on stats, otherwise QB's like Colt Brennan and Graham Harrol would have been 1st round draft picks.

I'm going to guess that A is Taylor Mays, B is that guy out of OSU, and C is Berry?

[TrojanPride]

A lot if has to do with scheme as well.

The Cover 1 that Pete has Taylor playing really limits his ability to make big plays as he often lines up 20 yards down the field and is responsible for the entire field . It certainly limits his ability to sack the QB and make TFL's. Also he has something like 20 passes defended in his career so as time has gone on, fewer and fewer offensive coordinators have challenged him down the field. Unfortunately for Mays, Pete was going to give him more of an opportunity to play SS and play up around the LoS this year but our best cover corner was deemed academically ineligible for the year, which forced Josh Pinkard to be moved back to CB (he was going to start at FS this year), which forced Mays back to FS.

In Tennessee Monte Kiffin has installed his Tampa Cover-2 defense and you can see that it has limited Berry's impact plays. He often lines up both of his safety's well down the field. Also Berry's reputation, like Mays prevents teams from really going after him.

Ohio State plays a much more aggressive scheme in the secondary which gives their secondary players many more opportunities. Coleman is a SS so he has more opportunity to make plays at the LoS. In addition, most teams don't exactly fear him so they are more likely to take shots at him and it gives him more opportunties to make plays.

[fatphil101]

This thread is a pure example of two things.

1. Stats aren't everything.

2. OSU fans will do anything to pimp their player. No offense to you Jasonew6, you're a great poster, but it's pretty typical.

Also you have to factor the fact that Coleman plays a different position than Berry and Mays. Coleman is a SS where we have Ndukwe and Williams. Berry and Mays are FS's, where we have Crocker and a couple of ST guys at best in Hebert and Nelson. Then scheme plays into it, but TrojanPride already covered that part. Stats are very useful when comparing two players at the same position (such as LT), but they're hard to use with players playing different positions in different defensive schemes.

To answer your question, purely looking off stats, the answer is Coleman. Take into account the scheme, and it's no question Mays.

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by fatphil101

This thread is a pure example of two things.

1. Stats aren't everything.

2. OSU fans will do anything to pimp their player. No offense to you Jasonew6, you're a great poster, but it's pretty typical.

Also you have to factor the fact that Coleman plays a different position than Berry and Mays. Coleman is a SS where we have Ndukwe and Williams. Berry and Mays are FS's, where we have Crocker and a couple of ST guys at best in Hebert and Nelson. Then scheme plays into it, but TrojanPride already covered that part. Stats are very useful when comparing two players at the same position (such as LT), but they're hard to use with players playing different positions in different defensive schemes.

To answer your question, purely looking off stats, the answer is Coleman. Take into account the scheme, and it's no question Mays.

I agree with everything here except I think Berry is slightly better than Mays from what I've seen so far in their college careers and I think Berry has been better this year although it's close. However, I've obviously seen a lot more of Mays whereas I'm more going off of highlights with Berry (but I've seen a couple Volunteer games start to finish this year)

[Mr.Palmer]

Yeah, sorry, no Ohio State DB's are even remotely close to being on Mays' level and none of them are even in the same universe as Eric Berry. Berry is one of the best saefty prospects I have seen since Sean Taylor. He is that good and will without a doubt be a top 5 and maybe even a top 3 pick.

Sorry Buckeye homer, but you guys haven't produced a solid NFL corner since Chris Gamble and you haven't produced a solid NFL safety since Donte Whitnor, and still neither of them come even remitely close to Eric Berry.

Pretty lame attempt to pimp a mediocre player in my opinion, it's almost as bad as someone wanting the Bengals to select the University of Cincinnati wide out in the first. Well, no, your homersim is worse, they are actually ranked higher then your team.

[Bengalsfreak2k4]

Eric Berry is the best safety in the country i see him play on every sat here in tenn, aganist my fave team Auburn he played a killer game and last sat aganist fla, bama he played great i like Berry#1 Mays#2

[BengalUSCfan]

I'm not pimping anybody. I'm just glad that there's a strong crop of safeties coming out.

I would, however, like everyone to watch Chad Jones out of LSU. He's only a Junior but he'd be nuts not to declare this year. (Can you say Sam Bradford? How about Jermaine Gresham?) Jones is 6'3" and 231 lbs AND a punt returner AND enough of an athlete that he's a pitcher for the LSU baseball team too.

I don't know why this kid isn't mentioned on more boards, except that he's a Junior. Please do yourself a favor and watch him play if you enjoy watching safeties who hit like they own the turf and receivers are trespassing. He's a great enforcer.

Better yet, with Berry and Mays and maybe Jones coming out, somebodies got to fall to us.

I'm watching DE's too with Odom out.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

Safety A:
1 INT 0 yds, 0 TDs 35.5 tackles 0 sacks 0 passes defensed 0 forced fumbles 0 TFL

Safety B:
3 INT 129 yds 1 TD 41.5 tackles 1 sack 2 passes defensed 3 forced fumbles 2 TFL

Safety C:
1 INT 0 yds 0 TD 46 tackles 0 sacks 6 passes defensed 1 forced fumble 5 TFL

Rank them 1 - 3.

Depends. How many Big-10 teams have each of them played?

[crazyjdawg]

You could argue that the safety that has the worst stats is the best because that means guys stay away from him.

It'd be different if the guy with the fewest FF, sacks, INTs had a lot of tackles, which would mean people throw on him. But if the guy with the fewest FFs and INTs also has the fewest number of tackles, maybe people just don't throw at him.


That said, I think Safety C is having the best season. 5 TFL means he can play at the line of scrimmage. The others have 0 and 2.

He also has 1 INT as well as 6 PDs., meaning he disrupted 7 passes individually.
A has disrupted 1 play, and B has disrupted 5 plays. Those 3 ints are just coincidential. any PD could easily become an INT.

The 3 FFs are just right place right time.


C is having the best season. Who's that?

[fatphil101]

A - Taylor Mays
B - Kurt Coleman
C - Eric Berry

[coachmcneil71]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

I agree with everything here except I think Berry is slightly better than Mays from what I've seen so far in their college careers and I think Berry has been better this year although it's close. However, I've obviously seen a lot more of Mays whereas I'm more going off of highlights with Berry (but I've seen a couple Volunteer games start to finish this year)

I pretty much agree here but I think both will be good pros.
Mays and Berry will both be playin "big boy" ball on Sundays!

[Cincinnati Seminole]

Since I believe we will probably be picking in the mid-teens (at worse), I doubt Mays or Berry will be available to us. So I doubt we pick a Safety in the First. i would look more to Lindley, CB out of UK or maybe even Gresham, if Coffman doesnt start getting accustomed to the game.

Here are some other safeties we may be able to look at in Round 2 and beyond.

Chad Jones - LSU
Rashad Jones - Georgia
Morgan Burnett - GaTech
Myron Rolle - FSU
Major Wright - Florida

I am sure there are others, but these are just a few that we could look at in the later rounds.

[WHO_DEY_51]

Originally Posted by crazyjdawg

You could argue that the safety that has the worst stats is the best because that means guys stay away from him.

It'd be different if the guy with the fewest FF, sacks, INTs had a lot of tackles, which would mean people throw on him. But if the guy with the fewest FFs and INTs also has the fewest number of tackles, maybe people just don't throw at him.


That said, I think Safety C is having the best season. 5 TFL means he can play at the line of scrimmage. The others have 0 and 2.

He also has 1 INT as well as 6 PDs., meaning he disrupted 7 passes individually.
A has disrupted 1 play, and B has disrupted 5 plays. Those 3 ints are just coincidential. any PD could easily become an INT.

The 3 FFs are just right place right time.


C is having the best season. Who's that?

Coleman is definitely showing that he is the better safety. He is win Lott award. He is a playmaker and makes his team play better. Coleman was suspended for the Indiana game. So his stats are going to be lower.


Coincidental??? Some people are playmakers and some people aren't. the playmakers force turnovers. FS are overrated, anyways. it is the SS that makes a defense, not the FS.

Name the NFL Ss. Most, if not all, are SS.

Yes, Coleman is playing better than Berry and Mays. Berry and Mays are overrated by ESPN.

[WHO_DEY_51]

Originally Posted by Whatever

Depends. How many Big-10 teams have each of them played?

You claim OSU fans are biased, this just makes your assessment, void.

Just because OSU plays against the top teams every year and loses, doesn't mean they aren't good. They are just going up against the best team that year or a top team that year. That's what happens when you are in the top 10, yearly. Oh, wait, OSU has the potential to be in the top 10 again. What is that 6 years in a row. What other team has done that? SInce 2002, OSU has only been outside the top 10, once. (Not counting this year.)

Since 2002-2008: (AP poll) (Top 10 teams, yearly)
SEC: (15)
Florida: 2
Alabama:4
LSU: 2
Georgia: 5
Auburn: 2

BIG TEN: (15)
Iowa: 3
Penn St: 2
Ohio St: 6
Michigan: 3
Wisconsin: 1

PAC-10: (8)
Oregon: 1
USC: 7
Arizona: 0

BIG 12: (9)
Texas: 4
Oklahoma: 5
Ok St: 0

By that alone:
1. USC
2. OSU
3.Oklahoma
4. Georgia
5. Texas
6. Alabama
7. Michigan
8. Iowa
9. Florida/Penn St/Auburn/LSU

Say what you want about OSU, but fact is they are yearly the 5th best team in college football. USC is the only team that matches up to them with NFL players, top 10's, and wins.

[WHO_DEY_51]

Originally Posted by Mr.Palmer

Yeah, sorry, no Ohio State DB's are even remotely close to being on Mays' level and none of them are even in the same universe as Eric Berry. Berry is one of the best saefty prospects I have seen since Sean Taylor. He is that good and will without a doubt be a top 5 and maybe even a top 3 pick.

Sorry Buckeye homer, but you guys haven't produced a solid NFL corner since Chris Gamble and you haven't produced a solid NFL safety since Donte Whitnor, and still neither of them come even remitely close to Eric Berry.

Pretty lame attempt to pimp a mediocre player in my opinion, it's almost as bad as someone wanting the Bengals to select the University of Cincinnati wide out in the first. Well, no, your homersim is worse, they are actually ranked higher then your team.

Whitner was drafted in 2006. It is 2009. He was a SS. So, that means Coleman would have been his replacement.

I think, Malcolm Jenkins was drafted last year in the 1st round.

You have blind hate. Every thing you say is to hate the Buckeyes. Everything. You claim the Buckeyes haven't had solid corners, but they, in fact, lead the league in DBs. Winfield, Witner, Clements, Jenkins, Gamble, and Doss. Should i go on.

By the way, you say we have mediocre S. Doss preceded Whitner who preceded Coleman. In that order. That was our SS the last 10 years. One year starter between Whitner and Coleman.


Clements (1st, 2001), Doss (2nd, 2003), Gamble (1st, 2004), Whitner (1st, 2005), Jenkins (1st, 2008)

Proves you know nothing. That is 5. Name another school with that? By the way, Coleman and Chekwa could be draft in the 1st round next year.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by WHO_DEY_51

You claim OSU fans are biased, this just makes your assessment, void.

Just because OSU plays against the top teams every year and loses, doesn't mean they aren't good. They are just going up against the best team that year or a top team that year. That's what happens when you are in the top 10, yearly. Oh, wait, OSU has the potential to be in the top 10 again. What is that 6 years in a row. What other team has done that? SInce 2002, OSU has only been outside the top 10, once. (Not counting this year.)

Since 2002-2008: (AP poll) (Top 10 teams, yearly)
SEC: (15)
Florida: 2
Alabama:4
LSU: 2
Georgia: 5
Auburn: 2

BIG TEN: (15)
Iowa: 3
Penn St: 2
Ohio St: 6
Michigan: 3
Wisconsin: 1

PAC-10: (8)
Oregon: 1
USC: 7
Arizona: 0

BIG 12: (9)
Texas: 4
Oklahoma: 5
Ok St: 0

By that alone:
1. USC
2. OSU
3.Oklahoma
4. Georgia
5. Texas
6. Alabama
7. Michigan
8. Iowa
9. Florida/Penn St/Auburn/LSU

Say what you want about OSU, but fact is they are yearly the 5th best team in college football. USC is the only team that matches up to them with NFL players, top 10's, and wins.

How in the world is OSU yearly the 5th best team in college football when they can't even beat top 10 teams? If they were the 5th best team in college football,then they should win half their games against top 10 schools,but they don't. Whipping up on Indiana,Northwestern,Youngstown State,and New Mexico doesn't make you a perrennial powerhouse. And your statistics basically mean nothing because most college football fans have complained over the last few years that Big-10 schools on the whole have been overrated in the polls.

For another,look at OSU's track record with DB's since Tressel has taken over. Chris Gamble is the only OSU DB drafted that's proven to be worth the pick. Donte' Whitner is decent,but not worth the top 10 pick the Bills blew on him. Past that,it's a laundry list of failures. Case in point,people were toting Malcolm Jenkins as a top 5 pick last year,but he can't even crack the Saints' starting lineup. Look at the laundry list of failed OSU S's like Mike Doss,Donnie Nickey,Will Allen,and Nate Salley. Simple fact of the matter is,OSU has not been a good school for putting DB's in the pros since Tress has been there. We see it year after year where OSU's DB's(players on the whole,for that matter)get built up way to be way better than what they really are,some team takes them way too early,then they're out of the league in a few years. I'm an OSU fan for pete's sake,but if you can't see that the OSU coaching staff does a TERRIBLE job,with a couple of exceptions(AJ Hawk,Mangold),of developing players to play on Sunday,then you simply aren't being objective. However,because they're the biggest college in-state,and Bengal fans watch a lot of them,every time any one of them does anything it's "The Bengals should take this kid(2 rounds too early)." OSU is not putting out NFL quality talent like USC,Florida,Alabama,etc...so why in the world do we keep overhyping their players when the track record of the program is that the odds are highly stacked that the kid is going to fail?

[Bengals in Toronto]

OSU has a great college team but when the players head to the NFL they disappear

[Bech72]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

Safety A:
1 INT 0 yds, 0 TDs 35.5 tackles 0 sacks 0 passes defensed 0 forced fumbles 0 TFL

Safety B:
3 INT 129 yds 1 TD 41.5 tackles 1 sack 2 passes defensed 3 forced fumbles 2 TFL

Safety C:
1 INT 0 yds 0 TD 46 tackles 0 sacks 6 passes defensed 1 forced fumble 5 TFL

Rank them 1 - 3.

Safety D:

6 INT 127 yds 2 TD 27 tackles 0 sacks 6 passes defensed 1 forced fumble ? TFL

Texas' Earl Thomas; 3rd year sophomore that could declare and might be available late in 1. We're obviously going to be out of the Mays and Berry sweepstakes, but Thomas might be a nice consolation prize if we go looking for an impact safety. Can also play CB which would make him valuable to us even if he doesn't start as a rook.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

In Tennessee Monte Kiffin has installed his Tampa Cover-2 defense and you can see that it has limited Berry's impact plays. He often lines up both of his safety's well down the field. Also Berry's reputation, like Mays prevents teams from really going after him..

Actually Berry has been lining up much closer to the line of scrimmage. He is playing more like a SS than a FS. That is why he has all those tackles in the backfield, but only 1 int. this year.

In fact a recent string of injuries to the LB corps started a rumor that Berry would be moved to LB. That has been denied, but if you watch the games Berry often lines up in the box just like an extra LB.

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Actually Berry has been lining up much closer to the line of scrimmage. He is playing more like a SS than a FS. That is why he has all those tackles in the backfield, but only 1 int. this year.

In fact a recent string of injuries to the LB corps started a rumor that Berry would be moved to LB. That has been denied, but if you watch the games Berry often lines up in the box just like an extra LB.

Interesting. I was basing it off something I heard by the announcers in the Alabama game. He was definitely in the two deep for much of that game.

[fatphil101]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

Interesting. I was basing it off something I heard by the announcers in the Alabama game. He was definitely in the two deep for much of that game.

He hasn't been consistently at the line or deep at all this year. How they use him has been solely based off the opponents, which I think speaks volumes of his versatility. He's also been playing a ton of CB this season.

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by fatphil101

He hasn't been consistently at the line or deep at all this year. How they use him has been solely based off the opponents, which I think speaks volumes of his versatility. He's also been playing a ton of CB this season.

That's why the guy is going to be a top 5 pick.

As a USC fan I'm jealous because Mays was supposed to be able to have that kind of versatility this year but with Shareece Wright academically ineligible (our best cover corner) causing Pinkard to move from safety to CB, Mays has been stuck in his deep FS spot. And it hasn't helped that our backup FS Drew McCallister has been injured for most of the year because it really means that Mays cannot move. It's a shame because in the few opportunities when they've been able to move him up to the LoS he's been effective.

We sure could have used him closer to the LoS in the Oregon game.