Bold prediction: the Bengals draft Tyrann Mathiue with the 37th overall pick.

[eliminate08]

As i have said before, the dude is a playmaker.

But he is a headcase and he is small. I would not even look at him until the 4th round or later.

[bradfritz21]

They have him as a second-round talent and list us as a possible destination.

Here's parts of their report:

Mathieu is a tenacious bump-and-run defender with an aggressive demeanor that frustrates receivers at the line. He's at his best when he shadows wideouts with quickness, but also shows the ability to attack receivers with forceful jams. Mathieu maintains hip-pocket position throughout the play and displays an explosive closing burst to finish. When he struggles in coverage, it is due to an occasional lack of eye discipline.

I like him because he's a hell of a press-coverage corner and also has great return skills, which, if he can't get on the field for our D just yet, he could be huge for our return game.

Also, Dre is a hell of a press corner, so having two bump-n-run corners on the outside, with our pass rush, would blank opposing offenses.

Has some negatives, like his size and peaking inside at the quarterback, but I'm liking him because of his press ability, which Zimmer loves to run press-man, and his return skills.

Only lists two other teams as possibly destinations, so I like our odds:

Cincinnati Bengals: Marvin Lewis has built Cincy into a perennial playoff contender. Part of this success can be attributed to clever gambles on troubled prospects in the draft. From Rey Maualuga to Carlos Dunlap to Vontaze Burfict, the Bengals have been able to get key production from high-risk prospects by putting them in a structured environment among veteran leaders. Additionally, Cincinnati has a respected coaching staff adept at dealing with eccentric personalities. With Mathieu offering big-play potential as a defender/returner, the Bengals might be inclined to take another gamble on a player who could help push them over the top in the AFC North.

Washington Redskins: The Redskins are in desperate need of playmakers in the back end after parting ways with DeAngelo Hall and Cedric Griffin in the offseason. Mathieu is an ideal nickel corner candidate who could also fill the team's need at punt returner. Although the Redskins have shied away from character risks in the Mike Shanahan era, the presence of defensive backs coach Raheem Morris could persuade Washington to take a gamble on Mathieu. Morris is an exceptional position coach with a knack for developing young players. Most importantly, he has experience working with troubled players, which is a critical asset in this case. If Morris and Mathieu can develop a strong rapport during the pre-draft process, it wouldn't shock me to see the "Honey Badger" thriving in D.C.

Pittsburgh Steelers: The Steelers typically prefer bigger cornerbacks, but Mathieu could be an intriguing option due to his versatility as a defender. He has the capacity to cover outside as a corner or blitz off the edges from the slot. In **** LeBeau's aggressive zone-blitz scheme, versatile players like Mathieu are valued at a premium. Additionally, Mathieu's ability to provide an impact as a punt returner could allow Antonio Brown to solely concentrate on developing into a true No. 1 receiver. Factor in Mike Tomlin's tough-love approach with his players, and a marriage between Mathieu and Pittsburgh could be a viable option on draft day.

Here's the article and there's more on the page.

[Au165]

The dude is tiny. The simple fact is if your tiny playing bump and run your going to get beat over top by bigger athletic WR's. I don't mind taking him, but if it is anywhere around the 2nd round i'll be pizzed. I'd take him in the 4th no earlier.

[bradfritz21]

Originally Posted by Au165

The dude is tiny. The simple fact is if your tiny playing bump and run your going to get beat over top by bigger athletic WR's. I don't mind taking him, but if it is anywhere around the 2nd round i'll be pizzed. I'd take him in the 4th no earlier.

I might grab him in the third because our needs are only at SAM (which can be argued), safety, and running back, so any pick after we fill those needs is a luxury, which also means that we don't have much invested in him and could cut ties if he messes up.

(You could also argue center, but Cook back to 100% or Robinson should take care of that.)

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by bradfritz21

They have him as a second-round talent and list us as a possible destination.

Here's parts of their report:



I like him because he's a hell of a press-coverage corner and also has great return skills, which, if he can't get on the field for our D just yet, he could be huge for our return game.

Also, Dre is a hell of a press corner, so having two bump-n-run corners on the outside, with our pass rush, would blank opposing offenses.

Has some negatives, like his size and peaking inside at the quarterback, but I'm liking him because of his press ability, which Zimmer loves to run press-man, and his return skills.

Only lists two other teams as possibly destinations, so I like our odds:



Here's the article and there's more on the page.

I hope we do not touch the kid personally. You can argue playmaker all you want but I just do not think he has learned his lesson. I could be wrong.

Give me a CB like Hawthorne in the late rounds who better fits what we do on defense. We can find someone that can return punts that does not have the baggage. For that matter if Dre and Prater are both healthy and we get Newman back then there really is no reason for us to use Jones on defense and he could concentrate full time on returns.

I just have no interest in the kid whatsoever. Sorry.

[IndianaBengal984]

I'd take him ............ in the 3rd or 4th only

[bradfritz21]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

I hope we do not touch the kid personally. You can argue playmaker all you want but I just do not think he has learned his lesson. I could be wrong.

Give me a CB like Hawthorne in the late rounds who better fits what we do on defense. We can find someone that can return punts that does not have the baggage. For that matter if Dre and Prater are both healthy and we get Newman back then there really is no reason for us to use Jones on defense and he could concentrate full time on returns.

I just have no interest in the kid whatsoever. Sorry.

Normally, I'd agree, but, like I said, we have so few other needs that we wouldn't be to invested in him.

Lace his contract with behavior clauses and keep little invested in him.

We'd kill two Ravens with one stone and we'd add an explosive guy.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by bradfritz21

Normally, I'd agree, but, like I said, we have so few other needs that we wouldn't be to invested in him.

Lace his contract with behavior clauses and keep little invested in him.

We'd kill two Ravens with one stone and we'd add an explosive guy.

Why worry about having to lace his contract with any clauses at all?

Give me a Terry Hawthorne in his place any day. A guy with real size and speed and who works his tail off. Look at the bench reps for The Honey Possum. It is obvious he has not been spending his time in the weight room and he has had plenty of free time. Even Zimmer said he could bench press 225 as many times as he did.

He is a liability on defense and I have posted the video footage to prove it. He is not a good tackler and the NFL receivers of this day and age just get bigger. They will eat him up. He is not physical enough to jam them at the line and their is video posted that shows this as well, When he jams he gets beat.

I just do not get the love for the guy. Punt returns are great but I am pretty sure we can find someone to do the job.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by bradfritz21

They have him as a second-round talent and list us as a possible destination.

Here's parts of their report:



I like him because he's a hell of a press-coverage corner and also has great return skills, which, if he can't get on the field for our D just yet, he could be huge for our return game.

Also, Dre is a hell of a press corner, so having two bump-n-run corners on the outside, with our pass rush, would blank opposing offenses.

Has some negatives, like his size and peaking inside at the quarterback, but I'm liking him because of his press ability, which Zimmer loves to run press-man, and his return skills.

Only lists two other teams as possibly destinations, so I like our odds:



Here's the article and there's more on the page.

Report are that he looked great in his Pro Day today as well. Mayock currently rates him as a 3rd round pick. If you look through out the multiple pages. I've suggested folks make things up about Tyrann. If you read you can see those stories changing as the evidence becomes more and more over whelming. I have seen it go from slow to stiff to poor coverage to now the latest is a liability in run support and poor in press coverage (2 of his strengths). Tried to give the distractors some advice a few pages back. The kid has 3 weaknesses: size, character issues, and lapses of discipline in coverage (or what Bucky called "eye discipline").

[NATI BENGALS]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

He is a liability on defense and I have posted the video footage to prove it.

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you even know what you are looking at when you are watching these guys.

Everybody and their brother had Mathieu as a first team All American at DB. They don't have to put him on the team at DB. There is the option of listing a player as all purpose. Which usually goes to guys who make a difference in the return game.

He won the Bednarik which is given to the best defensive player in the nation. And he was a Heisman finalist for being a game changer. Yet for some reason when you watch him you see a liability on defense.

Do you close your eyes when you are watching these videos? And just pretend he looks terrible.

Give him all the hell you want for being a product of his environment and smoking dope. But just making stuff up about his ability is lame.

There is nothing wrong with having your own opinion. But when everybody who has a job in sports media covering college football and the coaches who played against him disagree with that opinion... It gets annoying when you keep trying to claim it as fact.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you even know what you are looking at when you are watching these guys.

Everybody and their brother had Mathieu as a first team All American at DB. They don't have to put him on the team at DB. There is the option of listing a player as all purpose. Which usually goes to guys who make a difference in the return game.

He won the Bednarik which is given to the best defensive player in the nation. And he was a Heisman finalist for being a game changer. Yet for some reason when you watch him you see a liability on defense.

Do you close your eyes when you are watching these videos? And just pretend he looks terrible.

Give him all the hell you want for being a product of his environment and smoking dope. But just making stuff up about his ability is lame.

There is nothing wrong with having your own opinion. But when everybody who has a job in sports media covering college football and the coaches who played against him disagree with that opinion... It gets annoying when you keep trying to claim it as fact.

There are certainly things that are annoying no denying that.

I posted video showing his poor tackling. Feel free to watch it and disagree. I did not state it as fact I stated what I watched I also posted what I watched for others to look at as well. If you wish to dispute it then watch the footage posted and state why you disagree with it. I did not slight you in a personal manner and I would expect the same respect from you.

Post #160 offers plenty of footage for you to watch and dispute.

You offered up one clip earlier of him making a single tackle on Richardson and Lacy each as if that was majorly significant and then when another player blows up your footage with his observations you fell back on well yeah lots of people look bad against Alabama.

Guess I could have come in stating that was lame however I chose not to.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

There are certainly things that are annoying no denying that.

I posted video showing his poor tackling. Feel free to watch it and disagree. I did not state it as fact I stated what I watched I also posted what I watched for others to look at as well. If you wish to dispute it then watch the footage posted and state why you disagree with it. I did not slight you in a personal manner and I would expect the same respect from you.

Post #160 offers plenty of footage for you to watch and dispute.

You offered up one clip earlier of him making a single tackle on Richardson and Lacy each as if that was majorly significant and then when another player blows up your footage with his observations you fell back on well yeah lots of people look bad against Alabama.

Guess I could have come in stating that was lame however I chose not to.

This is silly. Now you don't like this Cornerback because (in your opinion) he is poor in run support.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by bfine32

This is silly. Now you don't like this Cornerback because (in your opinion) he is poor in run support.

Actually, what is silly is you thinking that everyone should agree with you about him. I have made my case and posted reasoning for several things I do not like in regard to him. Tackling and coverage being two of them. Getting burnt when attempting to jam at the line of scrimmage is another. Letting a player advance 10 yards while trying to strip the ball rather than making the tackle and or missing the tackle all together because you are attempting to strip the ball is another.

I guess what you need to realize is that I could careless if you agree or not.

[NATI BENGALS]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Actually, what is silly is you thinking that everyone should agree with you about him. I have made my case and posted reasoning for several things I do not like in regard to him. Tackling and coverage being two of them. Getting burnt when attempting to jam at the line of scrimmage is another. Letting a player advance 10 yards while trying to strip the ball rather than making the tackle and or missing the tackle all together because you are attempting to strip the ball is another.

I guess what you need to realize is that I could careless if you agree or not.

What is silly is you posting videos of Philip Thomas looking like garbage and talking him up after posting video of Tyrann looking way better than Thomas and ripping him for it.

[berserkerone88]

Tyrann is rough in coverage. Needs polished. He has the athleticism and skills. But the time he missed from being coached is huge. If we do draft him, we are in a position to not even really use him on defense and just let him return.

3rd round is probably the earliest I would take him.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

What is silly is you posting videos of Philip Thomas looking like garbage and talking him up after posting video of Tyrann looking way better than Thomas and ripping him for it.

Yet have seen you do nothing but flap your gums. If you wish to make it personal that is completely fine no problem with it. Once again the video is there feel free to make your own critique of it. However, you seem to prefer to just run your mouth.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Yet have seen you do nothing but flap your gums. If you wish to make it personal that is completely fine no problem with it. Once again the video is there feel free to make your own critique of it. However, you seem to prefer to just run your mouth.

What is silly is that you are so desperate to find something not to like about the kid that you have resorted to critiquing his tackling skills. Post all the videos you want that basically show how a Cornerback tackles. He's a Cornerback; while occassionally called on the make a tackle, it is not what most are based on. What is your breakdown of Trufant's, Milliner's, Bank's, Rhoades', ect... tackling skills?

FWIW (I'm sure they haven't looked at your videos) Here is what NFL.COM had to say about Tyrann's tackling:

Originally Posted by NFL.COM

Strengths
Does whatever it takes to make a stop, fights through blocks using hands and quickness, goes low or high and doesn’t let up after initial contact. Brings enough force despite his size to get ballcarriers off balance with a glancing blow. Constantly rips at the ball while making a tackle or when others have secured the stop... Will also be a strong tackler on coverage units if required.

The "poor in coverage" assertion is too silly to refute. I could list a whole page of expert analysis that would disagree and most agree, he is one of the best off the line of scrimmage with his physical play.

I get it. Folks are looking for things to slam this guy for: a bad workout,a poor interview, some media mistake, ect... To date he has disappointed them.

Remeber stick to size, off field concerns, and discipline lapses in coverage. Then you have a something to argue.

[draftnick61]

After all of the recent history of troubled players that we mostly purged from the team, WHY would anyone think that it is a good idea to bring in a troubled player with a history of drug use dating back to when he was 13 years old (his words). We do not need his "pothead" problems. I wouldn't even have him anywhere on my draftboard. He is a definate character issue we don't need!

[dr1441]

I for one would love him on this team. This team lacks explosive plays on defense and even though he is limited in coverage the guy is a playmaker. He had more turnovers in the couple of years he played than any other defensive back in the draft.

And sure the "we can switch him to safety" argument is always made but it is true about him. He played some deep safety at LSU and if switched to a full time safety I think he could be an Earl Thomas type safety but needs work on run support.

[NATI BENGALS]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Yet have seen you do nothing but flap your gums. If you wish to make it personal that is completely fine no problem with it. Once again the video is there feel free to make your own critique of it. However, you seem to prefer to just run your mouth.

I just don't feel like wasting my time. You have supposedly watched the videos. Me breaking them down Barney style for you is not going to do anything. I know it is impossible to win an argument with you.

You think Philip Thomas is on the same level as Vaccaro and Elam. And you think Tyrann is an absolute bum. I along with plenty others disagree. And that isn't me running my mouth.

You are the one questioning others reading comprehension skills. Don't take everything so personal broham.

Originally Posted by ScottHotshot

Are you seriously saying that you think he could cover some of the bigger faster guys in this division, let alone tackle a rb like Trent Richardson?

I posted the video of him tackling Richardson and Lacy because someone directly questioned his ability to do so.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS

I just don't feel like wasting my time. You have supposedly watched the videos. Me breaking them down Barney style for you is not going to do anything. I know it is impossible to win an argument with you.

You think Philip Thomas is on the same level as Vaccaro and Elam. And you think Tyrann is an absolute bum. I along with plenty others disagree. And that isn't me running my mouth.

You are the one questioning others reading comprehension skills. Don't take everything so personal broham.



I posted the video of him tackling Richardson and Lacy because someone directly questioned his ability to do so.

That is great he actually made a couple of tackles. No one has ever said he has not. However, when you go into extended footage of him you see that it is not always the case.

Let me give you a specific example. On NUMEROUS occasions he misses tackles because he is trying to strip the ball. When you are the sole defender engaged with a player your first priority needs to be making the tackle. He does not do this and on NUMEROUS occasions you see players breaking free from him or gaining extended yardage because he is not attempting to make the tackle.

If you are not willing to critique the video then why to you feel compelled to critique someone else who is willing to? Do you dispute what I have posted in regard to specific plays? If you do which ones? I would be more than happy to look at it again if you see something differently.

My opinions and that are all they are opinions are not based off what others think. I prefer to watch things for myself and form my own opinions rather than have someone else hand them to me I do not really care if they are popular or not. I as well have not asked for your approval of my opinion.

Is that what you are looking for to win an argument? How can you win in a debate of opinion? To win a debate of opinion would only mean that you feel your opinion is superior to another's. However, at least when giving my opinion I have given argument and evidence to support it rather than just following that of others.

I feel he is an explosive playmaker when it comes to return ability but I do not find that compelling enough to override what I see as chinks in the armor of defense. Yes he causes turnovers by stripping the ball. I do not feel this overrides his deficiencies on a consistent basis when it comes to tackling. My feeling is that at best when it comes to defense he will be a nickel type corner to cover the slot. I just do not ever see him being a really effective starting CB at the NFL level. It is fine if you do not agree.

While having his return ability would be nice to have I just do not see that being an effective use of a draft selection when you could take another player that could be groomed into an effective role in a starting position on offense or defense. I offer up a guy like Terry Hawthorne from the Illi as an example. Return ability is great but in the grand scheme of things what have a Devin Hester or Josh Cribbs really done to make their teams Superbowl contenders. While Chicago has been a consistent playoff team can that really be directly linked to Hester? Maybe you think it can be and maybe I have just not watched Chicago enough but I just am not sure the two are directly linked. It certainly has not been with Cribbs and Cleveland.

[UnoCinco]

When I first posted this thread.... EVERYONE was talking trash to me for being insane...

As you can see.... Mel Kiper's take on the Honey Badger, "Tyrann Mathieu, CB, LSU
I can hear Jon Gruden in my ear: "He makes plays, Mel." That he does. Mathieu is a risk-taker and a "feel" player in coverage, but he has the best hands of any defensive player in the draft, and adds value as a returner. He has made plays in big games against top competition. I think he could go in Round 2."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...raft-prospects

Looks like the 37th pick isn't too insane after all!!

Thoughts?

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by pulses

that's not bold that's utterly stupid

agreed he should be sitting there in the 4th for us to nap quietly.

[reggieubaldo18]

If cincy picks him up. Expect zimmer to tear him a new one

[oldschoolomen]

I don't want the Bengals to draft him at all, but if they take him at 37, I'll have to watch Seinfeld or something so that I don't go to sleep ****** off.