Dalton's stats with Binns/Tate/Sanu/Jones...

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by Steeler Eater

Everyone will probably hate on the idea, but Dalton would be better suited playing with 2 TE's and using them frequently. Charles is a pretty sure handed receiver and we would benefit from using him. I love utilizing TE screens and we could really benefit from running 2 TE sets, just ask Tom Brady.

Sense Sanu went down i figured they would be using Charles much more often.. I was wrong and they have struggled.

[CincyFeeeva]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

I still think we need to add another WR that is a legit #2.

I like Sanu, but he is more a possession WR/ Red Zone target. We need a #2 who has speed to go deep and then put Sanu as the #3 WR and that would be simply AWESOME! Plus, we'd have some redundancy in case of injury...as WR's get hurt.

^this ^ I wouldnt be opposed to drafting another WR as BPA. Depending on were we pick. But that probably wont happen since we do have other pressing needs.

[CincyFeeeva]

Originally Posted by Steeler Eater

Everyone will probably hate on the idea, but Dalton would be better suited playing with 2 TE's and using them frequently. Charles is a pretty sure handed receiver and we would benefit from using him. I love utilizing TE screens and we could really benefit from running 2 TE sets, just ask Tom Brady.

That is an idea that I wish the coaching staff looks into. TE is a big target for the redzone. WHY NOT USE IT?

The thing also is that Gruden doesn't seem to utilize the TE in the offense as much as he should.

[TrojanPride]

Predictably I think you'll find a stronger correlation if you just look at the quality of the pass defense Andy is playing against. He played extremely well against the bad pass defenses and not as well against the better ones.

Who started isn't a great measure because it's misleading. We've seen heavy rotation at that #2 spot during games. It's not like the guy who started typically took all the snaps during that particular game.

For instance the 3 games Sanu started were Oakland, KC and Washington. Those were 3 of the worst pass defenses we've faced this year. And in the case of Washington Sanu only played that first snap of the game where he threw the pass.

Tate started against the Steelers (the best pass defense) and the Broncos (good pass defense).

Also I checked the gamebook and it said that Hawkins started against the Giants.

[CincyGuy344]

Our offense will only get better Jones is a guy that can stretch the field and do reverses. Sanu can move the chains and provide a red zone target. Hawk can make plays in space. Green can do it all. All we need is to get healthy we will be scary good.

[TrojanPride]

I definitely think that a more reliable #2 would help some but I think it's importance is over-stated by a lot on these boards.

I think our offense compares favorably to the Texans (as we both run a WCO). They have a top 3 WR like we do (almost identical stats between Johnson and Green). Their #2 option is a TE (Gresham has more catches and yards than Daniels). Our #3 option Hawkins has more catches and yards than their #3 option.

The Patriots top two targets are the slot receiver and TE. Their #1 WR Lloyd has half as many yards as our #1 Green. Do they even have a #2?

Just saying that it can get done in different ways. Gresham is 5th among TE's in catches and 6th among TE's in yards. Most teams don't have that kind weapon at TE so they need a better #2 WR.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

I definitely think that a more reliable #2 would help some but I think it's importance is over-stated by a lot on these boards.

I think our offense compares favorably to the Texans (as we both run a WCO). They have a top 3 WR like we do (almost identical stats between Johnson and Green). Their #2 option is a TE (Gresham has more catches and yards than Daniels). Our #3 option Hawkins has more catches and yards than their #3 option.

The Patriots top two targets are the slot receiver and TE. Their #1 WR Lloyd has half as many yards as our #1 Green. Do they even have a #2?

Just saying that it can get done in different ways. Gresham is 5th among TE's in catches and 6th among TE's in yards. Most teams don't have that kind weapon at TE so they need a better #2 WR.

You shouldn't look at who lines up where, you should just look at who the primary targets are in those offenses. Wes Welker may line up in the slot, but he's the primary target for Tom Brady. I don't think Hawk has the skills (or the size) to do what Welker does.

Patriots
1. Wes Welker- 95-1116-4
2. Rob Gronkowski- 53-748-10 (10 games)
3. Brandon Lloyd- 57-650-4
4. Aaron Hernandez- 35-334-4
5. Danny Woodhead- 28-306-2

Texans
1. Andre Johnson- 82-1209-3
2. Owen Daniels- 52-622-6
3. Kevin Walter- 35-444-2
4. Arian Foster- 34-176-2
5. James Casey- 30-304-3

Bengals
1. AJ Green- 85-1208-11
2. Jermaine Gresham- 61-699-5
3. Andrew Hawkins- 45-485-4
4. Ben Green-Ellis- 21-104-1
5. Armon Binns- 18-210-1 (since released)

Looking over those receivers, I think NE and Houston have more reliable targets than we do. It says something when your 5th leading receiver (was 3rd through the first 5 games) gets released mid-season. We need more weapons for Andy.

[ishouldbegm]

a good qb is suppose to help develop recievers like brees with guys like colston moore and henderson

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by ishouldbegm

a good qb is suppose to help develop recievers like brees with guys like colston moore and henderson

That's only the case when the receiver actually has a little talent. Give Brees Armon Binns and see what happens. Binns was a scrub. Heck, Tom Brady had Brandon Tate and couldn't do jack with him.

I actually think Andy has done a fine job with our receivers. Hawkins was a nobody before he came here. QBs can only do so much though. Even the great Drew Brees would have trouble with this group.

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

You shouldn't look at who lines up where, you should just look at who the primary targets are in those offenses. Wes Welker may line up in the slot, but he's the primary target for Tom Brady. I don't think Hawk has the skills (or the size) to do what Welker does.

Patriots
1. Wes Welker- 95-1116-4
2. Rob Gronkowski- 53-748-10 (10 games)
3. Brandon Lloyd- 57-650-4
4. Aaron Hernandez- 35-334-4
5. Danny Woodhead- 28-306-2

Texans
1. Andre Johnson- 82-1209-3
2. Owen Daniels- 52-622-6
3. Kevin Walter- 35-444-2
4. Arian Foster- 34-176-2
5. James Casey- 30-304-3

Bengals
1. AJ Green- 85-1208-11
2. Jermaine Gresham- 61-699-5
3. Andrew Hawkins- 45-485-4
4. Ben Green-Ellis- 21-104-1
5. Armon Binns- 18-210-1 (since released)

Looking over those receivers, I think NE and Houston have more reliable targets than we do. It says something when your 5th leading receiver (was 3rd through the first 5 games) gets released mid-season. We need more weapons for Andy.

That was the point I was making. People act like we only have one target in AJ Green because they expect that the #2 WR should be the next best WR. For us Gresham is always going to be our #2 guy regardless of who is at the #2 WR spot.

This is precisely what I was saying with NE. Their #1 WR is their slot. Of course Hawkins isn't as good as him. But Lloyd is nowhere as good as Green as a #1 WR. Green is our primary. Lloyd is their 3rd option like Hawkins is our 3rd option. I would agree that the overall talent of their weapons is better (especially when they are all healthy at the same time) but I was just making the point that they do very well without having great outside WR's.

As for Houston's set of weapons, I disagree. I'm not saying that ours are better but I'd say they are the same. Our #2 and #3 targets have slightly better numbers then theirs. Foster has been a slightly better receiver than Ellis but not by much (and in terms of running they both are 1,000 rushers and Green-Ellis actually has a better yds/carry average).

You can always have more weapons but we aren't in a worse position than most teams in the NFL right now.

[DWright]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

That was the point I was making. People act like we only have one target in AJ Green because they expect that the #2 WR should be the next best WR. For us Gresham is always going to be our #2 guy regardless of who is at the #2 WR spot.

This is precisely what I was saying with NE. Their #1 WR is their slot. Of course Hawkins isn't as good as him. But Lloyd is nowhere as good as Green as a #1 WR. Green is our primary. Lloyd is their 3rd option like Hawkins is our 3rd option. I would agree that the overall talent of their weapons is better (especially when they are all healthy at the same time) but I was just making the point that they do very well without having great outside WR's.

As for Houston's set of weapons, I disagree. I'm not saying that ours are better but I'd say they are the same. Our #2 and #3 targets have slightly better numbers then theirs. Foster has been a slightly better receiver than Ellis but not by much (and in terms of running they both are 1,000 rushers and Green-Ellis actually has a better yds/carry average).

You can always have more weapons but we aren't in a worse position than most teams in the NFL right now.

Didn't know that Gresham was a WR. Gresham sometimes has to stay back and pass protect he can't always be the number 1 or 2 target. You need a second WR on the field that can draw coverage to the other side of the field.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

That was the point I was making. People act like we only have one target in AJ Green because they expect that the #2 WR should be the next best WR. For us Gresham is always going to be our #2 guy regardless of who is at the #2 WR spot.

This is precisely what I was saying with NE. Their #1 WR is their slot. Of course Hawkins isn't as good as him. But Lloyd is nowhere as good as Green as a #1 WR. Green is our primary. Lloyd is their 3rd option like Hawkins is our 3rd option. I would agree that the overall talent of their weapons is better (especially when they are all healthy at the same time) but I was just making the point that they do very well without having great outside WR's.

As for Houston's set of weapons, I disagree. I'm not saying that ours are better but I'd say they are the same. Our #2 and #3 targets have slightly better numbers then theirs. Foster has been a slightly better receiver than Ellis but not by much (and in terms of running they both are 1,000 rushers and Green-Ellis actually has a better yds/carry average).

You can always have more weapons but we aren't in a worse position than most teams in the NFL right now.

I don't really think we're in a great spot receiver wise, at least not as great as some think. AJ is one of the best in the league, but teams are doubling him on every play. We have no other receivers that really need to be game planned for.

For most of the year, it's been a doubled AJ, an inconsistent Gresham and a 5'7" gadget player as the only receivers we rely heavily on. Most teams have either a #2 wr, a 2nd TE or a RB that is heavily involved in the passing game (note that the Texans and Pats have all 3).

We really need more guys that are capable of playing big roles in the passing game. It doesn't necessarily have to be a #2 wr, it could also be a 2nd TE (Orson Charles). Either way, someone needs to step up. Just look what Andy did when Sanu was starting and playing well.