**OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by ryanevans

Dalton is young, he's still learning. Palmer was a vet, and still forcing

I think even Peyton Manning has had years recently where he threw four or more pick sixes in a season and it wasn't cuz he was "still learning".

Pick sixes happen, sometimes more than you'd expect, even to the best of them.

On Sunday I saw two dropped picks, one of them was actually broken up by Hawkins I believe it was, on the exact sort of play that either Ocho or TO (during Palmer's infamous 7pick six 2010) would have watched it get picked without trying to break it up and then not even tried to tackle the guy as they would have immediately started pouting on the field while the play was still live and if it got returned for a TD, no one would hold them accountable for their lack of effort....except me. If Palmer has the exact same day, there would have been eight threads talking about how he really "should have had four interceptions but got lucky" and totally owes the win to the defense.

At any rate of Dalton's two picks, the one that went off Jones' hands was ridiculous, that play and Gresham's fumble almost killed us. Dalton, in spite of the pick sixes, is ballin' this year, like I knew he would. He only gets some slack when the team is winning though. Most folks on here were starting to crucify him during the four game losing streak, which was absurd, but whatever. It is what it is.....team wins....."blah blah, the QB's great".....team loses "blah, blah, the QB stinks, derp derp".

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Treee

Yea man. You know a rookie is gonna **** when he can't even get his team past the first round of the playoffs. Lets not even look at the fact that he got there in the first place.

TJ Yates was 3rd string rookie QB and he balled out against us in the Playoffs. Nobody is saying he *****, but right now he's nothing more than the same version of 05-06 Palmer. Great in the regular season but can't seem to win when it counts. Matt Ryan is another example of that.

[Go Cards]

Originally Posted by Abspara

Dalton's also lead this team to the famous "one and done" in the playoffs as well just like Carson. Is that happening again in your forecast?

No, predicted that they would lose in the AFC Championship game as a matter of fact.

Also predicted that this was not actually going to be the Bengals year, but next year will be.

Carson still sux !

[Go Cards]

The only thing that keeps the " Carson Healing " and forgiving from starting is his calvary.

When Carson looks back on his NFL career. The best things will be being the #1 overall pick. Some great years and runs made as well.

But all these things happened in Cincinnati where he is no longer welcome. Very humbling.

Think he wishes the losing debate to stop too. Evident by his post game statements. But the few who invested their life fortunes on Carson swag, will not let it go.

You are doing him no favors by giving people a platform and avenue for Quitter bashing.

Carson already threw up the white flag.

[Go Cards]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

I'm not saying Dalton doesn't deserve credit. He's performed above and beyond expectations, and he's certainly contributed to the success of the team, but to give him all the credit for the turnaround, and Palmer ALL of the blame for the reason the franchise was bad in 2010 isn't fair.

...and Dalton didn't have a choice. Besides, a bright-eyed, excited just to play in the NFL rookie doesn't have the same mentality as a beaten down(mentally and physically) 9year NFL veteran. Do you honestly think Palmer was the exact same way mentally in 2003 as he was in 2010?

Put things in perspective here:
Rookie #1 receiver. (nobody really knew AJ would be this good. Good, yes, but not All-Pro; not this fast.)
Virtual nobodies outside of that at the receiver spot.
Same RB who was crap in 2010.
Patchwork oline that wasn't guaranteed to be ANY better than last season.
A defense who had just lost there(then) best player.
A rookie OC with zero experience in the NFL other than as an assistant(on his bro's team no less).
A HC with a losing record.
The worst owner in the NFL.

All that was facing him had he come back. That was a worse situation than when he left. Granted, he's in a very bad situation in Oakland now, but that's really irrelevant since he didn't have much choice there either: Oakland, Cincinnati, or no football period.

Palmer had every legal right to do what he did. He was only obligated to the terms of the contract. Within those terms, is the right to hold out and/or retire. So legally, all he did was hold out. Mike Brown then traded him. What he did was pretty bad morally, yes, no argument there, but he surely didn't break, or even bend any laws.

Put Dalton in Palmer's place in 2010. Does Dalton lead that team to the playoffs? Keep in mind almost every skill player on that offense: Ocho, TO, Benson, Caldwell, Shipley, and Simpson are now either doing nothing in the NFL, or very little.

What ????? In your first post all these are the positives that Dalton has over Carson.
But then you use the same things for the obvious reasons Carson left.

Which is it ? Guess it is in flux.

Just because Carson was with the Bengals longer means nothing either. I have been a fan since 1968. But have a much better outlook on the Bengals then some of the younger fans.

[BengalsIronMan]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

TJ Yates was 3rd string rookie QB and he balled out against us in the Playoffs. Nobody is saying he *****, but right now he's nothing more than the same version of 05-06 Palmer. Great in the regular season but can't seem to win when it counts. Matt Ryan is another example of that.

Tj Yates had a loaded team man. Dalton still lead us to the playoffs in his first opportunity. So he didn't play lights out his first chance doesn't mean he's written off as a great player in the season but chokes in the postseason. If Dalton can lead us to the playoffs for a consecutive year then that alone puts him ahead of any two year guy and Palmer.

[BengaliJack]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

dude you would complain about winning the lottery because the check they gave you was the wrong color

That made me laugh. Probably true though

[BengalRugby]

I think even Peyton Manning has had years recently where he threw four or more pick sixes in a season and it wasn't cuz he was "still learning".

Pick sixes happen, sometimes more than you'd expect, even to the best of them.

On Sunday I saw two dropped picks, one of them was actually broken up by Hawkins I believe it was, on the exact sort of play that either Ocho or TO (during Palmer's infamous 7pick six 2010) would have watched it get picked without trying to break it up and then not even tried to tackle the guy as they would have immediately started pouting on the field while the play was still live and if it got returned for a TD, no one would hold them accountable for their lack of effort....except me. If Palmer has the exact same day, there would have been eight threads talking about how he really "should have had four interceptions but got lucky" and totally owes the win to the defense.

At any rate of Dalton's two picks, the one that went off Jones' hands was ridiculous, that play and Gresham's fumble almost killed us. Dalton, in spite of the pick sixes, is ballin' this year, like I knew he would. He only gets some slack when the team is winning though. Most folks on here were starting to crucify him during the four game losing streak, which was absurd, but whatever. It is what it is.....team wins....."blah blah, the QB's great".....team loses "blah, blah, the QB stinks, derp derp"


I agree. To think Dalton is winning these games and that is why he's better than Palmer is silly. The major factor is the defense, which Palmer never has sans the turnover freakshow that was the 2005 defense.

Similarly, to give Dalton a pass for balls going off receivers hands is weak. If any QB has a great excuse for INT's it was Palmer in dealing with the creative route running of Ochocinco. For how good Chad was here, he didn't know or freelanced his routes more than any receiver in the game, yet no one mentions that, instead it is all building up Andy and cracking on Carson.


Which isn't even the point. The point is Dalton is tossing the pick 6's as Carson did in his time here. I think it has to do with the offense being run, which points to something Black Jesus may be coaching, but I cannot figure it out. Heck, maybe it's something in the chili that infects the QB's and inclines them towards the pick 6. Just trying to figure it out, and glad to see not everyone is going off reservation with their analysis.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Go Cards

What ????? In your first post all these are the positives that Dalton has over Carson.
But then you use the same things for the obvious reason Carson left.

Which is it ? Guess it is flux.

Just because Carson was with the Bengals longer means nothing either. I have been a fan since 1968. But have a much better outlook on the Bengals then some of the younger fans.

I don't see any contradictions in my posts.

You've also been a fan during the 70's and 80's, a time where the Bengals were a respectable franchise that actually won more than they lost. Paul Brown was also considered one of the greatest football minds ever; the total opposite of his son. You've seen this franchise in a totally different light, so you are more positive that they can get back there. Younger fans, like myself, have never seen sustained success from this franchise, so holding out hope that we'll get back there soon is a lot tougher for us.

[STC]

Just out of curiosity, how and why did the title "Black Jesus" come about?

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by STC

Just out of curiosity, how and why did the title "Black Jesus" come about?

I'm guessing it has something to do with him being the "savior" of the franchise; bringing them out of the 90's "dark ages".

[TheCincinnatiKid]

He has thrown one too many pick 6's this year, but I dont think a 24-13 TD-INT ratio is doing all that badly.

I thought we've been a lot more pass-orientated this year, but looking at it passing attempts wont be a ton different come seasons end likely.

I dont think it's been a massive step forward or anything, but I like the way Dalton's progressed. He's shown he can be that explosive QB in a game. At times I thought the pass game was a lil limited last season, well it doesnt seem to have a ceiling atm, we can be pretty good through the air.

It's pointless thinking about Palmer. We didnt force him out, he left. There wasnt a situation where he was staying. Dalton is proving he can lead us forward if he can be a lil more consistent and I dont see much reason to be too worried about our QB atm.

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

... For how good Chad was here, he didn't know or freelanced his routes more than any receiver in the game, yet no one mentions that...

Really? Seems like many, MANY people love to claim that Chad was a lousy route-runner. I just think many other people find it hard to truly believe because Chad caught so many balls for so many yards in his time here and many of those catches were on precise timing routes at the sideline. Hard to believe he was a long way from where he was supposed to be and when he was supposed to be there when he made so many catches like that.

PS: TJ, who is credited with being a good route runner, was the target on 9 of Carson's league-leading 20 INTs in 2007 (the highest number of targets on INTs of any WR on our roster). So, Carson threw plenty INTs to the guy supposedly the most reliable route-runner on our team too.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Which isn't even the point. The point is Dalton is tossing the pick 6's as Carson did in his time here. I think it has to do with the offense being run, which points to something Black Jesus may be coaching, but I cannot figure it out.

2011
Buff- Ball is kicked up in the air by Andre Caldwell as he's falling down.
@Hou- JJ Watt jumps in the air and snags a ball at the line of scrimmage.

2012
@Wash- Arm is hit while he throws and ball is picked in the end zone.
@Cle- Receiver gives up on route.

That's four out of his 6 pick 6's. How are any of those on coaching?

By my count, Dalton has 2 legitimate 'bad throw/decision' pick 6's. There's a reason you can't figure it out. It's because it has nothing to do with coaching.

[Bengal Dude]

Originally Posted by STC

Just out of curiosity, how and why did the title "Black Jesus" come about?

It was a nickname Marvin got from a player when he showed up 2003.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

2011
Buff- Ball is kicked up in the air by Andre Caldwell as he's falling down.
@Hou- JJ Watt jumps in the air and snags a ball at the line of scrimmage.

2012
@Wash- Arm is hit while he throws and ball is picked in the end zone.
@Cle- Receiver gives up on route.

That's four out of his 6 pick 6's. How are any of those on coaching?

By my count, Dalton has 2 legitimate 'bad throw/decision' pick 6's. There's a reason you can't figure it out. It's because it has nothing to do with coaching.

That's just the one's you can tell from watching. The other one's that appear to be bad decisions on Dalton's part may not be, WR could have run the wrong route and we'd have no idea as fans......When there is clearly miscommunication among players on the field, regardless which one of the players screwed up, it only makes sense to question the coaching. Either they're not getting their message across, they're not holding guys accountable enough etc.. It's reasonable to imagine some of that may be happening if the same errors continue to occur even with different players.

Personally, I just think it's more bad luch than anything, just unlucky bounces exasperated mainly by TOcho when they were here.