Bubble Screen pass to Hawkins.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by bigwilliestyle

haha yea he probably would. They really didnt try to get him the ball and he had 51 receptions for 533 yds. Whereas welker got 118 receptions. They both had the same number of catches over 40 yds showing me welker isnt any faster. Hawkins 40 time is 4.34 and welkers is 4.65. Welker is not more athletic or capable he is just targeted twice as much. Give Dalton an oline that gives him time to look at more than one option (like Brady's) and actually try to get him the ball and he can get those stats. Only problem i have with hawkins is that he tends to not come back to the ball.

********.
Welker is incredibly talented. Hawkins is a nice gadget player.
Stop.

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

Yeah because the game in which we tried to feature hawkins was so good...

I remember many missed and one INT trying to get the ball to hawkins

Hes a gaget player whos best use is in space on a quick screen or reverse.

Are you talking about this past game where the oline didnt give dalton time at all. Ill give you that he didnt come back to the ball on that one play and it got batted down. There was also one play that an int was thrown tying to get it to aj. does that mean he isnt useful? most players in the nfl are useful if their coaches know how to use them.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by bigwilliestyle

Are you talking about this past game where the oline didnt give dalton time at all. Ill give you that he didnt come back to the ball on that one play and it got batted down. There was also one play that an int was thrown tying to get it to aj. does that mean he isnt useful? most players in the nfl are useful if their coaches know how to use them.

No im saying he should not be a featured WR in the middle of the field or if he is Gruden needs to game plan it better so the D doesnt see him coming every time..

(it was one of the games right after sanu went down maybe Dallas game)

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

********.
Welker is incredibly talented. Hawkins is a nice gadget player.
Stop.

Not saying welker isnt talented. Just saying they used him in the beginning and he made plays. .Some were gadget plays and some were not. If they continued trying to get him the ball he would make more plays just because of his speed and quickness. However a third option in an offense that doesnt provide time for its qb doesnt get opportunities. If he is targeted as much as welker guarantee you he at least almost puts up same numbers.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

No im saying he should not be a featured WR in the middle of the field or if he is Gruden needs to game plan it better so the D doesnt see him coming every time..

(it was one of the games right after sanu went down maybe Dallas game)

The Miami game.
We tried to push Hawkins and it was awful.

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Any throw to Hawkins more than 5 yards down field terrifies me.
I think 3-4 picks from Dalton have been on throws where Hawkins' size killed us. He can fight for position on the ball.

any throw to any receiver far down the field was scary with daltons accuracy. Yes hawkins is tiny. so the solution to that would be to not put him in a position where he has to fight for the ball. For example screens, routes that create picks, maybe having his routes designed to sit in between a zone. I personally dont remember that many times you saw our receivers sit in the gap of zone coverages they were against. It seemed like there routes were just designed to go one direction without any options just in case a player blitzed or if there was a certain coverage. One thing our offense was great at back when tj was here was having him find the open spots of zone coverages and sitting in them. Why not start doing that with him. Im not saying throw the ball deep and to him every play. Im just saying he has the talent if used properly to be an impact player.

[Joelist]

Originally Posted by bigwilliestyle

any throw to any receiver far down the field was scary with daltons accuracy. Yes hawkins is tiny. so the solution to that would be to not put him in a position where he has to fight for the ball. For example screens, routes that create picks, maybe having his routes designed to sit in between a zone. I personally dont remember that many times you saw our receivers sit in the gap of zone coverages they were against. It seemed like there routes were just designed to go one direction without any options just in case a player blitzed or if there was a certain coverage. One thing our offense was great at back when tj was here was having him find the open spots of zone coverages and sitting in them. Why not start doing that with him. Im not saying throw the ball deep and to him every play. Im just saying he has the talent if used properly to be an impact player.

No it is not "Dalton's accuracy". It is stupid game plans that have a 5'7 gadget player going across the middle in traffic - the lack of height and also inability to create separation make Hawk a difficult target in that scenario.

There's a reason a lot of us say bubble screen - Hawk is at his best when in space so put him in space. We constantly fail on offense to game plan around what our players do well.

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by Joelist

No it is not "Dalton's accuracy". It is stupid game plans that have a 5'7 gadget player going across the middle in traffic - the lack of height and also inability to create separation make Hawk a difficult target in that scenario.

There's a reason a lot of us say bubble screen - Hawk is at his best when in space so put him in space. We constantly fail on offense to game plan around what our players do well.

Im saying hes not used properly as well and that if he was he could put up big numbers. the offense seems like a really simple offense that isnt able to pick apart what d's do.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Joelist

No it is not "Dalton's accuracy". It is stupid game plans that have a 5'7 gadget player going across the middle in traffic - the lack of height and also inability to create separation make Hawk a difficult target in that scenario.

There's a reason a lot of us say bubble screen - Hawk is at his best when in space so put him in space. We constantly fail on offense to game plan around what our players do well.

Bingo

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Bingo

So youre agreeing with me that the problem is the gameplan with hawkins? not that he is incapable.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by bigwilliestyle

So youre agreeing with me that the problem is the gameplan with hawkins? not that he is incapable.

No. I was agreeing with him that Hawkins is not anything like Welker (who is capable and effectively used in all aspects of the pass game) while Hawkins is best used in bubble screens and such to get in open fields and make people miss.

[bigwilliestyle]

maybe we just have different definitions of what a gadget play is

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

No. I was agreeing with him that Hawkins is not anything like Welker (who is capable and effectively used in all aspects of the pass game) while Hawkins is best used in bubble screens and such to get in open fields and make people miss.

btw welker has limitations too. He's not much of a deep threat like hawkins.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by bigwilliestyle

maybe we just have different definitions of what a gadget play is

Not running the full route tree.
Too small to do it effectively.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by bigwilliestyle

btw welker has limitations too. He's not much of a deep threat like hawkins.

Wes Welker can be a deep threat. Is he Randy Moss or Calvin? No.
But he gets his deep plays in.

[bigwilliestyle]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Wes Welker can be a deep threat. Is he Randy Moss or Calvin? No.
But he gets his deep plays in.

him and hawkins both had only 2 receptions of over 40 yards despite the fact that he had over twice the amount of receptions. He is a great receiver but not a deep threat.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by McC

Speaking of screen passes, have there ever been two uglier ones attempted than the two the Bengals tried to run Saturday? To all of us wondering why we never run them, look no further.

Again, it's the coaching.

[Picksfor6]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Any throw to Hawkins more than 5 yards down field terrifies me.
I think 3-4 picks from Dalton have been on throws where Hawkins' size killed us. He can fight for position on the ball.

I agree his size is detrimental to Dalton. Love to see him in for a few gadgets but have Sanu take over the slot role