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  #1  
Old 01-21-2013, 01:34 PM
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Default Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

With Mike Zimmer returning to Cincinnati for his fifth season as defensive coordinator, I think it's time to make becoming the number one defense in the NFL a goal for the Bengals. All the parts and pieces to accomplish this goal are already there -- provided the Front Office makes good decisions and retains Michael Johnson of course.

The defensive line is stacked with excellent players -- and Robert Geathers.

Moving Vontaze Burfict to middle linebacker makes a lot of sense as that was his natural position in college and Rey Maualuga can test the waters of free agency. Maybe he can play special teams for Pete Carroll in Seattle or something. On the outside, Manny Lawson isn't bad -- but he isn't great either. If Thomas Howard returns it will be huge and I still hold out hope that Dontay Moch can get his migraines under control and become a very good outside linebacker. The lack of outside linebacker skill is why teams can feast against Cincinnati with screen passes and short throws to the tight end at the sideline.

The cornerback situation is solid with Leon Hall, Adam Jones, and a soon-to-be healthy Dre Kirkpatrick. If Dre can crack the lineup on a regular basis, the cornerbacks might become the best component of the Bengals' defense.

As for the safeties, the Front Office should make a serious run in Free Agency at securing the services of Patrick Chung of the Patriots or Dashon Goldson of the 49ers. It would be hilarious to see Ed Reed finish his career as a Bengal but, well, he's old. If Mike Zimmer has another safety to play alongside Reggie Nelson I think deep passes against the Bengals would result in disaster.

Besides what I mentioned, the defense needs just a little more physical play than what we saw in 2009, 2011, and 2012. Note this well: I am not advocating for cheap shots, intentional injuries, or anything of the sort but some bell-ringing punishment wears down opposing offenses very well and makes quarterbacks tentative in their decision-making. While Mike Zimmer's defenses are well-schooled in the fundamentals of tackling and wrapping up, it's time to take tackling to the next level and start crunching ball carriers hard enough so they'll remember it. This will give the Bengals the only thing they don't have on defense: An intimidation factor.

Yes, I know the offense needs a serious overhaul. I didn't forget that. But while Jay Gruden goes back to the drawing board, I hope Mike Zimmer takes the next step and brings the Cincinnati defense to the top of the league. Defenses still win championships.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Morning Star Morning Star is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

yes, even better than the steelers! There DC will be 80 I think this year!
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:22 PM
Jabberwocky Jabberwocky is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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yes, even better than the steelers! There DC will be 80 I think this year!

A senile LeBeau is better than 98% of the DC's out there. I believe Zim heads up the 2% that are better.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:40 PM
jack1953 jack1953 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering View Post
With Mike Zimmer returning to Cincinnati for his fifth season as defensive coordinator, I think it's time to make becoming the number one defense in the NFL a goal for the Bengals. All the parts and pieces to accomplish this goal are already there -- provided the Front Office makes good decisions and retains Michael Johnson of course.

The defensive line is stacked with excellent players -- and Robert Geathers.

Moving Vontaze Burfict to middle linebacker makes a lot of sense as that was his natural position in college and Rey Maualuga can test the waters of free agency. Maybe he can play special teams for Pete Carroll in Seattle or something. On the outside, Manny Lawson isn't bad -- but he isn't great either. If Thomas Howard returns it will be huge and I still hold out hope that Dontay Moch can get his migraines under control and become a very good outside linebacker. The lack of outside linebacker skill is why teams can feast against Cincinnati with screen passes and short throws to the tight end at the sideline.

The cornerback situation is solid with Leon Hall, Adam Jones, and a soon-to-be healthy Dre Kirkpatrick. If Dre can crack the lineup on a regular basis, the cornerbacks might become the best component of the Bengals' defense.

As for the safeties, the Front Office should make a serious run in Free Agency at securing the services of Patrick Chung of the Patriots or Dashon Goldson of the 49ers. It would be hilarious to see Ed Reed finish his career as a Bengal but, well, he's old. If Mike Zimmer has another safety to play alongside Reggie Nelson I think deep passes against the Bengals would result in disaster.

Besides what I mentioned, the defense needs just a little more physical play than what we saw in 2009, 2011, and 2012. Note this well: I am not advocating for cheap shots, intentional injuries, or anything of the sort but some bell-ringing punishment wears down opposing offenses very well and makes quarterbacks tentative in their decision-making. While Mike Zimmer's defenses are well-schooled in the fundamentals of tackling and wrapping up, it's time to take tackling to the next level and start crunching ball carriers hard enough so they'll remember it. This will give the Bengals the only thing they don't have on defense: An intimidation factor.

Yes, I know the offense needs a serious overhaul. I didn't forget that. But while Jay Gruden goes back to the drawing board, I hope Mike Zimmer takes the next step and brings the Cincinnati defense to the top of the league. Defenses still win championships.
+1. Baltimore won their first SB with the number one defense and Trent Dilfer!!! Just as John Gruden did with Brad Johnson!

Don't forget, if the 2 best QBs in the league want any part of the SB this year, they will have to watch from the stands, or their couches!!
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:47 PM
Bull Durham Bull Durham is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

How do you quantify the #1 defense? Based on what?
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:51 PM
Bull Durham Bull Durham is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

The ravens just went into New England and held them to 13 points. Our defense isn't close to being on that level.

The bengals defense doesn't do anything consistently well, whether its pressuring the QB, stopping the run when they have to, getting interceptions, forcing 3 and outs when they really need a stop...
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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How do you quantify the #1 defense? Based on what?
I believe the grading system is done on a combination of yardage and points allowed, defensive points scored, interceptions, takeaways??
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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The ravens just went into New England and held them to 13 points. Our defense isn't close to being on that level.

The bengals defense doesn't do anything consistently well, whether its pressuring the QB, stopping the run when they have to, getting interceptions, forcing 3 and outs when they really need a stop...
Maybe it's time for the Bull to put on the purple and black attire. You will have the team you want and one of the best coaches in the league right now!
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:01 PM
jack1953 jack1953 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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How do you quantify the #1 defense? Based on what?

Take your pick Bull. In both of these rankings for 2012 Cincy was 6th and Baltimore 17th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...e/seasontype/2
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

I also think that a great D is possible. I think the key is LB ... it's the one position on D where I actually think we're really weak. Burfict was promising, but with Howard out injured, I thought every other LB on the roster was only backup quality, including Rey and Lawson. If we can make a few more plays at LB we could make huge strides on D.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:34 PM
JohnHenry JohnHenry is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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I also think that a great D is possible. I think the key is LB ... it's the one position on D where I actually think we're really weak. Burfict was promising, but with Howard out injured, I thought every other LB on the roster was only backup quality, including Rey and Lawson. If we can make a few more plays at LB we could make huge strides on D.
Absolutely…

The weak link was clearly at the linebacker position.

Burfict looks promising but I really hope they try him at MLB.
He seems to be intelligent and have really good instincts, which all 4-3 MLBs must have.

If Thomas Howard is healthy, he’s a quality WLB. He’s as athletic as any linebacker and can cover.
Also, he’s a good tackler which is required because of the under shifted fronts they play.

The missing link is at SLB.
They really need a pro-bowl quality player here.
One that can cover, hold up against the run, and can absolutely get pressure off the edge – tall order I know, but this would be a priority for me in the draft.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

Shore up the LBs and maybe tweek around the secondary and sure we could be at #1 ranked D. Course i'd rather have our offense move into the top ten and our defense stay where it is.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:11 AM
TheCincinnatiKid TheCincinnatiKid is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

While I think this would be a nice thing to have, I dont think it's vital for our success to be #1. Tbh the way we were playing the past 9 or so games on defence was damn brilliant (particularly points wise). Defence has some flaws and would go up a gear if it gets to #1 next year, but if the offense plays well and we have a similar defence again next year, we could be damn good.

But since the topic's just about getting to #1 defensively, I think where the defence can improve the most is at LB. The D-line is one of the best around, our CB unit is a decent one, and maybe played above themselves last season. As somebody said, Safety help for Nelson would be good. MLB is the biggest concern though imo, Rey just wasnt good and it's a bit surprising we were so good defensively without a good MLB, most good defences have that good MLB. I think the defence could be scary good with a commanding MLB who's actually half good.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:04 AM
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bengals Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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The ravens just went into New England and held them to 13 points. Our defense isn't close to being on that level.

The bengals defense doesn't do anything consistently well, whether its pressuring the QB, stopping the run when they have to, getting interceptions, forcing 3 and outs when they really need a stop...
Really? What team did you watch this season? Apart from the first few games where the entire secondary was on an injury riddled rotation with no stability; Cincinnati's defense was easily one of the best in the league:

The only defense not to allow an opening drive touchdown all season. But, you're right, that's not consistent I suppose.

Scored a defensive touchdown in the last four consecutive games, 3 of those being from interceptions. They were right at the league average in interceptions after a slow start. But, you're right, they struggled with those.

Second in the league in sacks with 15 more than the league average. But, you're right, they couldn't pressure the quarterback.

When this unit was healthy they were tops in the league, after the bye week and all players were at full capacity, they were allowing the fewest points per game. But, you're right, they weren't making stops.

Think before you post, you're not even close to being correct about anything you stated.


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Old 01-22-2013, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

To have the number one defense, we need to improve our offense because the defense can't play well if they're on the field 60 to 70 percent of the game. Burfict has said that he likes playing on the outside more than the middle. but I'd ask him how real he was about that and if he can return to MIKE without losing anything. If we leave Burfict on the outside, it depends on who we sign or draft, plus it depends on re-signing guys like MJ. We also need a safety and backer to fill whatever spot Burfict doesn't want.

Also, having an offense that can move the ball and score dictates to the other team that they need to move the ball and score.

It all depends on the offseason and it's too early to tell.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:35 AM
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We are way off from being number one. To many dominate pieces missing.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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We are way off from being number one. To many dominate pieces missing.
Like what? We have a hell of a front four, especially if we re-sign MJ, and they make the rest of the D good, especially in a passing league.

Assuming that we draft a backer and a safety, all of our pieces are filled.

Might need to also re-sign Pacman, depending on Dre's progression.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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Originally Posted by bradfritz21;2787600[B
]To have the number one defense, we need to improve our offense because the defense can't play well if they're on the field 60 to 70 percent of the game.[/b] Burfict has said that he likes playing on the outside more than the middle. but I'd ask him how real he was about that and if he can return to MIKE without losing anything. If we leave Burfict on the outside, it depends on who we sign or draft, plus it depends on re-signing guys like MJ. We also need a safety and backer to fill whatever spot Burfict doesn't want.

Also, having an offense that can move the ball and score dictates to the other team that they need to move the ball and score.

It all depends on the offseason and it's too early to tell.
This is a very good point. Hard to be sharp when you're worn out.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

I think we need a playmaking linebacker in order to be considered the number one defense. Just because of the leadership factors a linebacker presents. I'd like to think of the 49ers. I think their defensive line is great (especially against the run), their safeties are solid (especially against the run) and their corners are great (press man-to-man) but they have INCREDIBLE linebackers, fueled by the amazing Patrick Willis. We need that, we really do. I always thought Rey would be that, but I was wrong.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

Do the Bengals get to play the Patriots later this year?

If so, how about they pound them into the turf, whether it is at PBS or Foxbororough?

That would be a pretty good goal.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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We are way off from being number one. To many dominate pieces missing.
I wouldn't say we are way off. I feel like we are a couple pieces away. We could use a linebacker, safety, and a corner. If Dre Kirkpatrick gets healthy who knows how good he could be?
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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Like what? We have a hell of a front four, especially if we re-sign MJ, and they make the rest of the D good, especially in a passing league.

Assuming that we draft a backer and a safety, all of our pieces are filled.

Might need to also re-sign Pacman, depending on Dre's progression.
Way too many games where the opposing QB was under no pressure and had all day to sit back and play pitch and catch with his receivers. You're confusing recording lots of sacks with generating consistent pressure. I'll compare it to a home run hitter in baseball who hits lots of homers but strikes out every other plate appearance and almost never makes contact. Just because he hits some home runs doesn't mean he's a good contact hitter.

And like I said, a good defense can stop the run when they have to, and when they know the other team is going to run the ball. Too many games where we needed the defense to stop the other team with a 3 and out to give he ball back to the offense and the other team just ran the ball down our throat time after time for first down after first down.

Just look at the Houston playoff game. Everyone knew at the end of the game when there were a few minutes left that the bengals weren't going to get the ball back again because they wouldn't be able to stop the texans. Good defenses are able to make those stops to give their offense another chance.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:49 AM
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bengals Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
Way too many games where the opposing QB was under no pressure and had all day to sit back and play pitch and catch with his receivers. You're confusing recording lots of sacks with generating consistent pressure. I'll compare it to a home run hitter in baseball who hits lots of homers but strikes out every other plate appearance and almost never makes contact. Just because he hits some home runs doesn't mean he's a good contact hitter.

And like I said, a good defense can stop the run when they have to, and when they know the other team is going to run the ball. Too many games where we needed the defense to stop the other team with a 3 and out to give he ball back to the offense and the other team just ran the ball down our throat time after time for first down after first down.

Just look at the Houston playoff game. Everyone knew at the end of the game when there were a few minutes left that the bengals weren't going to get the ball back again because they wouldn't be able to stop the texans. Good defenses are able to make those stops to give their offense another chance.
Again, you're showing that you have no clue. We'll use the Texans game since you bring it up.
The defense had 3 key redzone stops resulting in field goals to keep the game within reach for a very lackluster offense.
With just under 3 minutes left in the game Dalton has the chance to hit AJ for the go ahead touchdown.
But, the defense didn't help make that possible, right? The offense dominated all game and looked like they had a chance all the way through, huh?
No. The defense kept that playoff game in the realm of acceptable. If it weren't for the fact that Maulaluga was exposed all game long, the Texans would've put up even less points.


And as to your theory that consistent pressure wasn't applied to opposing quarterbacks:
Here are the sack totals for each week
week1 BAL: 3
week2 CLE: 2
week3 WASH: 4
week4 JAX: 6
week5 MIA: 2
week6 CLE: 2
week7 PIT: 3
week9 DEN:0
week10 NYG: 4
week11 KC: 3
week12 OAK: 4
week13 SD: 4
week14 DAL: 3
week15 PHI: 1
week16 PIT: 4
week17 BAL: 4
wildcard TEX: 0

If you dont see consistent sack totals from applied pressure there then you're blind. 14 out of 17 games resulted in multiple sacks. Go troll on somewhere else.

Last edited by FRAv; 01-22-2013 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

For this defense to step up into the top position we need a true instinctive, hard nosed, take charge MLB.

I think we've already got the Burfict player !
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Goal for 2013: The Number One Defense in the NFL

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For this defense to step up into the top position we need a true instinctive, hard nosed, take charge MLB.

I think we've already got the Burfict player !
I'm starting to come around to the idea that he could be the missing piece of the D and be the Burfict MIKE that this team has been lacking.

I think he gives us a swagger that says "come get some."

If he was truthful about liking playing on the outside, then that's fine and keep him where he makes the biggest impact, but I would like to see him at least moved to SAM where he's in more plays. Then again, he wouldn't have as much freedom as he does at WILL.

Complicated situation, but I think he'll be a bad-*** wherever he plays.
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