Should Graham make the roster?

[Rayne]

He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[philhos]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"]He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]
Quick answer: no, 'cause according to you, it doesn't matter who the PK is. It takes all 11 guys to make a field goal, so it's obvious that Graham is only 9% at fault for the misses.
Serious answer: No, excuse me for saying this Ghost, but that's a pretty stupid question to ask. Graham is the 2nd most accurate kicker in NFL history (I'm not sure if that's just among active or all time). You're talking about 2 missed kicks, 1 of which was a pre-season game.
If it were to become a habit where he'd missed a ton of clutch kicks, then maybe you'd ask that question. But, as it is, it's really a stupid thing to ask. That'd be like me asking if Tomlin should be looking for a new QB since Ben threw 23 INTs last year (which led the league).
I expect better of you, Ghost.

[Rayne]

[quote user="philhos"][quote user="Ghostwriter"] He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]
Quick answer: no, 'cause according to you, it doesn't matter who the PK is. It takes all 11 guys to make a field goal, so it's obvious that Graham is only 9% at fault for the misses.
Serious answer: No, excuse me for saying this Ghost, but that's a pretty stupid question to ask. Graham is the 2nd most accurate kicker in NFL history (I'm not sure if that's just among active or all time). You're talking about 2 missed kicks, 1 of which was a pre-season game.
If it were to become a habit where he'd missed a ton of clutch kicks, then maybe you'd ask that question. But, as it is, it's really a stupid thing to ask. That'd be like me asking if Tomlin should be looking for a new QB since Ben threw 23 INTs last year (which led the league).
I expect better of you, Ghost.
[/quote]
There was a Bengal fan here yesterday that told me that Jon Kitna should have been traded because he's a choke artist.......seems that Graham has the same problem. With the game on the line, I'd want a guy that can put it through the uprights.
Consider....2 of New Englands 3 Lombardi's are on the foot of Adam Vinaterri.

[philhos]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"][quote user="philhos"][quote user="Ghostwriter"] He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]
Quick answer: no, 'cause according to you, it doesn't matter who the PK is. It takes all 11 guys to make a field goal, so it's obvious that Graham is only 9% at fault for the misses.
Serious answer: No, excuse me for saying this Ghost, but that's a pretty stupid question to ask. Graham is the 2nd most accurate kicker in NFL history (I'm not sure if that's just among active or all time). You're talking about 2 missed kicks, 1 of which was a pre-season game.
If it were to become a habit where he'd missed a ton of clutch kicks, then maybe you'd ask that question. But, as it is, it's really a stupid thing to ask. That'd be like me asking if Tomlin should be looking for a new QB since Ben threw 23 INTs last year (which led the league).
I expect better of you, Ghost.
[/quote]
There was a Bengal fan here yesterday that told me that Jon Kitna should have been traded because he's a choke artist.......seems that Graham has the same problem. With the game on the line, I'd want a guy that can put it through the uprights.
Consider....2 of New Englands 3 Lombardi's are on the foot of Adam Vinaterri.
[/quote]
Well, that Bengal fan is either an idiot, or was yanking your chain (obviously depends on how serious he was). But, like I said, 2 instances does not make a problem (especially when one of them is in the pre-season). If it were to happen more and more, then it would be a legitimate question. But, right now, is really a ridiculous and n00bish thing to ask.
And, FYI, 2 of those Super Bowls are not on the foot of Adam Vinaterri. It takes all 11 guys to make a FG, Ghost. You should know that better than anyone. [8-)]

[jc81622]

The ONLY kicker I would take over graham is Vinaterri. There is no reason to be looking for a new kicker. people should not assume that fieldgoals are free points if you get to the 30-35 yard line. Those are tough kicks to make, everyone misses.

[calell83]

[quote user="jc81622"]The ONLY kicker I would take over graham is Vinaterri. There is no reason to be looking for a new kicker. people should not assume that fieldgoals are free points if you get to the 30-35 yard line. Those are tough kicks to make, everyone misses.[/quote]
Graham is pretty good.

[cantstop85]

Rank
PlayerTeamFGMFGALongXPAXPMPts
2006 7 AFC graham CIN 25 30 51 42 40 115

13 NFL graham CIN 25 30 51 42 40 115

2005
3 AFC graham CIN 28 32 49 47 47 139

5 NFL graham CIN 28 32 49 47 47 139

2004
5 NFL GRAHAM CIN 27 31 53 41 41 122

5 AFC GRAHAM CIN 27 31 53 41 41 122

[cantstop85]

lol....looked better b4 i posted it now it wont let me edit it sorry

[Joe from Florence]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"]He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]
i know your stirring the pot, but if your serious then you need to stop sniffing glue.
I went back and looked at every game from 2004 thru 2006 and Graham only missed one FG that would of won the game for us at the end and that was last year agasint your steelers.
He was 3 for 3 with last second winning FG's up to that point including 2 in 2004 Miami and Baltimore, both kicks were with under 7 seconds left in the game to win it.....and also in 2005 against the Browns with 1 sec left in the game kicked the game winner.
So if anyone thinks he chokes for missing a 48 yard FG really need to revaluate every kicker in the league because I've even seen Vinetarie miss 48 yarders.
so when it counts Graham is 3-1 for the bengals with the game on the line....thats pretty good odds if you ask me

[Steely_J]

Most accurate.. least accurate... good kickers change with the weather now it seems. IMO every kicker is on a year to year watch.



Last Steeler kicker I ever thought of as "money" was Norm Johnson.

[philhos]

[quote user="Steely_J"]
[/quote]
"I told you I could kick with my eyes closed! Yeah, boy-eeeeeeee! What? I missed? Wide right? So, wide right that the chain gang guys caught the ball? Crap. Coach is going to KILL me."

[Steely_J]

Mikey Van says: "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.... sigh"

[Long Time Bengal Fan]

Ha ha HA!
Not only will he make it but I predict he will make amends for last years errors. I would rather have him miss now than when it counts like last season.
All he has done was make himself aware that he needs to work harder and practice more. He will return to form, after all he is one of the top kickers currently playing in the NFL!

[oasiswr]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"]He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]
Casper,you are really reaching around on this one. That last kick wasn't even centered on the field right.And I still don't know why they even went so far to the left for positioning the football for a field goal attempt.

[Whatever]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"]He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]
Well,in the first place,we had a 16 point lead with 5-6 minutes left. Graham should've never been in that position to begin with. The camp meat that choked the lead away should definately be in the unemployment line. Also,had poor game management not blown our timeouts,we would have been able to get closer. As I said in another thread,48 yards is no chip shot,but in a dome,that's a kick that Graham SHOULD make. However,how many other kickers are out there right now that you'd say SHOULD have hit a clutch 48 yard FG? Not many.
I've got concerns over Graham in the clutch,but the problem is,there's nobody better available right now. I mean,do you want a "clutch" kicker that misses a couple in the 1st half,or do you want a guy like Graham,hoping he'll make those FG's early so you won't HAVE to make last minute FG's?
All in all,Graham has mostly been reliable. I've always looked at things from the standpoint that if you need the kicker to bail you out,you had other opportunities to win that you didn't take advantage of. So,it's definately not fair to pin ENTIRE losses on the guy.

[pdub2005]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"]He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?

[/quote]

To put it simply..no. The preseason clutch kick in question was a 48 yarder, not exactly a chip shot. Yes, he did choke in the Pitt game, but that will happen to the best of players at sometime.

Heres a link for the stats of kickers last year. Jeff Reed is 15, Graham at 5.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/fantasy/k.rankings/index.html

[rhinocero23]

[quote user="Ghostwriter"]He made some last night, but he missed a clutch kick that would have won it. He did the same thing against us in the last game of the year. Had he made that one, you would have swept us AND made the playoffs at the same time.
Should Marvin Lewis be searching for a new PK?
[/quote]
Ghost may be trying to just stir the pot but he does pose a good question. The PK's main job is to be able to win the game when it is on the line, all this BS about it taking 11 guys to make the kick is just that, BS. If it were blocked, the hold were bad, or the snap off then that is something different. He missed it...plain and simple. You can argue that it was not a chip shot but he proved that when the pressure was not on he had the leg and the accuracy to make that kick.
I think he is a good kicker and the stats that Joe listed prove this, maybe the last two game winning opportunites are just a blip on the radar screen but every coach in the league will say the same thing...give us the ball last and let us have a chance to win the game. At this point I am a little worried about Golden Graham's confidence not his ability. I will feel much better when he kicks a game winner, preseason or not but the sooner the better.

[The Bat]

[quote user="philhos"]Serious answer: No, excuse me for saying this Ghost, but that's a pretty stupid question to ask.
[/quote]

Not unlike most of his posts of late...

[doctorhook18]

You are hurting feelings Steely! Now I am going to have start my "Bomb Canada" campaign all over again!