Spanking children

[barryllium]

A friend of my wife's recently said, "If I could give one piece of advice to parents, it would be spank your children." When my wife told me about this, I almost fell out of my seat. Really, that would be your one piece of advice? Not "love your children" or "be patient" or anything like that?

Anyway, this has me thinking - why spank children to begin with? What does it really teach children when they are spanked. I was spanked as a child, and all it really taught me was that being spanked hurts. That, and if you are bigger than someone you can get what you want by force.

I'm wondering if anyone really has a reason to spank children - because I just don't see it (and I'm willing to accept I just might not understand). I realize you really cannot reason with a 2-3 year old - but that doesn't mean spanking is the only other option. I've heard the argument that not spanking children doesn't "teach them discipline" - but aren't there other things that teach children discipline? And how do you teach a child that violence is wrong when violence is what you use to discipline? It all makes me think of a quote I once heard (and I can't remember who said it or the exact wording), but it essentially is "people aren't very creative when violence is an option".

I'm not trying to condemn anyone who has ever spanked their children - it's been widely accepted for a long time. I'm merely stating that I simply don't understand it, and am looking for people's insight either way. So - why spank children?

[IgnoreME]

Originally Posted by barryllium

A friend of my wife's recently said, "If I could give one piece of advice to parents, it would be spank your children." When my wife told me about this, I almost fell out of my seat. Really, that would be your one piece of advice? Not "love your children" or "be patient" or anything like that?

Anyway, this has me thinking - why spank children to begin with? What does it really teach children when they are spanked. I was spanked as a child, and all it really taught me was that being spanked hurts. That, and if you are bigger than someone you can get what you want by force.

It is a different perspective thats for sure. I think that you believe that now that you are an adult looking back. Children do not think that way.

Originally Posted by barryllium

I'm wondering if anyone really has a reason to spank children - because I just don't see it (and I'm willing to accept I just might not understand). I realize you really cannot reason with a 2-3 year old - but that doesn't mean spanking is the only other option. I've heard the argument that not spanking children doesn't "teach them discipline" - but aren't there other things that teach children discipline? And how do you teach a child that violence is wrong when violence is what you use to discipline? It all makes me think of a quote I once heard (and I can't remember who said it or the exact wording), but it essentially is "people aren't very creative when violence is an option".

I'm not trying to condemn anyone who has ever spanked their children - it's been widely accepted for a long time. I'm merely stating that I simply don't understand it, and am looking for people's insight either way. So - why spank children?

I was spanked as a child. I wish corporal punishment in school systems were still allowed. You best bet your *** that children feared the nun with the ruler and paddles, they did not act out in class as much.

Trust me, I also thought to myself as a child. Should I do this or am I going to get spanked for doing it. Teaches them right and wrong. Concequences for their actions.

I think of it this way, since when did we start giving children ritalin because they are hyperactive? Since when is drugs better than giving a kid a spanking?

I would bet if we still had corporal punishment those kids with "ADHD" would be paying attention out of fear of getting smacked on the ***.

[philhos]

Originally Posted by barryllium

A friend of my wife's recently said, "If I could give one piece of advice to parents, it would be spank your children." When my wife told me about this, I almost fell out of my seat. Really, that would be your one piece of advice? Not "love your children" or "be patient" or anything like that?

Anyway, this has me thinking - why spank children to begin with? What does it really teach children when they are spanked. I was spanked as a child, and all it really taught me was that being spanked hurts. That, and if you are bigger than someone you can get what you want by force.

I'm wondering if anyone really has a reason to spank children - because I just don't see it (and I'm willing to accept I just might not understand). I realize you really cannot reason with a 2-3 year old - but that doesn't mean spanking is the only other option. I've heard the argument that not spanking children doesn't "teach them discipline" - but aren't there other things that teach children discipline? And how do you teach a child that violence is wrong when violence is what you use to discipline? It all makes me think of a quote I once heard (and I can't remember who said it or the exact wording), but it essentially is "people aren't very creative when violence is an option".

I'm not trying to condemn anyone who has ever spanked their children - it's been widely accepted for a long time. I'm merely stating that I simply don't understand it, and am looking for people's insight either way. So - why spank children?

Spanking children is a form of punishment that they can readily understand. You cannot reason with a 3-year-old. They don't understand the concept of "if I do this, it's wrong" unles there is a negative consequence to that action.

I'm all in favor of spankings (and do so when necessary to my 2 children), but there are times it can cross the line. You should never spank when angry. You should make it as clear as you can the reason you are spanking. And it should never be more than a couple hits literally (more than 2 is excessive) with an open hand on the buttocks. (IMO, mothers can also slap a child across the face if the child says something completely disrespectful to her).

I also don't condemn parents who DON'T spank, as long as they replace it with a form of punishment that works. There's a lady that goes to my church and she never spanked her son (she let us know this constantly), but she made it a point to discipline him in other ways when he needed it and he's turned into a fine, young college man.

[spinksjinx]

I was spanked as a child, it never really stopped me from getting in trouble but it did stop me from throwing a fit in a store.

I think it's ok if used in moderation, a few kids come into my work and they severly need an *** whipping. I don't believe in the whole show the kid love thing or abuse them. Kids are going to stray regardless, it's part of human nature. It's how we handle it that counts. Like I said kids will get in trouble and spanking is useless but to use it in moderation and to keep them in line while in public (such as kids screaming and yelling) I think its appropriate.

[philhos]

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

I was spanked as a child. I wish corporal punishment in school systems were still allowed.

I agree completely!

I also find it interesting that when a child gets in trouble at school, many parents ask the school what the SCHOOL did or yelling at the SCHOOL, instead of reaming the kid out for getting into trouble. If my girls were ever to get into trouble at school (hasn't happened yet, knock on wood), you better believe I'm not going to care too much what the school did (unless they went overboard on punishment) and I'm going to make sure that my girls don't EVER get into trouble again.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by barryllium

A friend of my wife's recently said, "If I could give one piece of advice to parents, it would be spank your children." When my wife told me about this, I almost fell out of my seat. Really, that would be your one piece of advice? Not "love your children" or "be patient" or anything like that?

Anyway, this has me thinking - why spank children to begin with? What does it really teach children when they are spanked. I was spanked as a child, and all it really taught me was that being spanked hurts. That, and if you are bigger than someone you can get what you want by force.

I'm wondering if anyone really has a reason to spank children - because I just don't see it (and I'm willing to accept I just might not understand). I realize you really cannot reason with a 2-3 year old - but that doesn't mean spanking is the only other option. I've heard the argument that not spanking children doesn't "teach them discipline" - but aren't there other things that teach children discipline? And how do you teach a child that violence is wrong when violence is what you use to discipline? It all makes me think of a quote I once heard (and I can't remember who said it or the exact wording), but it essentially is "people aren't very creative when violence is an option".

I'm not trying to condemn anyone who has ever spanked their children - it's been widely accepted for a long time. I'm merely stating that I simply don't understand it, and am looking for people's insight either way. So - why spank children?

My wife and I do not spank, have 2 terrific kids, that are certainly not perfect, but well behaved, and do not get spanked. The bottom line is there are many more effective ways to discipline your childrenWith that said I am not against those parents that do, it can be very effective in it's own way, purely a matter of choice.

[IgnoreME]

On the same subject as "Alternative Means of Discipline". A woman refuses to spank her children for bad behavior and punishes them by having to read.

This is not directed at anyone but COMON! Reading should not be punishment. Reading is educational and recreational. Thats just bad parenting!

[philhos]

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

On the same subject as "Alternative Means of Discipline". A woman refuses to spank her children for bad behavior and punishes them by having to read.

This is not directed at anyone but COMON! Reading should not be punishment. Reading is educational and recreational. Thats just bad parenting!

That's it, IgnoreME. I've had it with your attitude. Now, for your punishment, I want you to sit down in front of the TV and watch your favorite shows ALL DAY. NOW! Don't argue with me! DO IT!!!

[CloeHokie]

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

On the same subject as "Alternative Means of Discipline". A woman refuses to spank her children for bad behavior and punishes them by having to read.

This is not directed at anyone but COMON! Reading should not be punishment. Reading is educational and recreational. Thats just bad parenting!

These days its hard to pry kids away from the TV or the Xbox. Kids see reading as a punishment. Lol

[HearUsRoar]

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" There's no better way of putting it than that.

My parents spanked me as a child when I misbehaved and now I thank God they did, it made me who I am today. When I did something that was only kind of bad, I'd just get a lecture, if I did something really bad then my mom would spank me and if I did something that was down-right horrible then my dad would spank me. My dad is a Vietnam Vet, who boxed in the army. Needless to say he "ran a tight ship." But he did so with respect. I respect him more than any human being alive and part of that is due to the disciplining and punishments I received as I was growing up.

Timeouts just don't work unless you're dealing with an exceptional child. More often that not (understatement) there needs to be some sort of spanking involved if the misbehaving warrants it.

[barryllium]

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

It is a different perspective thats for sure. I think that you believe that now that you are an adult looking back. Children do not think that way.

Actually, I did as a child. I found ways to try to get around the spanking hurting, and also used violence to get what I wanted from my little brother. As my older brother did to me.

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

I was spanked as a child. I wish corporal punishment in school systems were still allowed. You best bet your *** that children feared the nun with the ruler and paddles, they did not act out in class as much.

Trust me, I also thought to myself as a child. Should I do this or am I going to get spanked for doing it. Teaches them right and wrong. Concequences for their actions.

I think of it this way, since when did we start giving children ritalin because they are hyperactive? Since when is drugs better than giving a kid a spanking?

I would bet if we still had corporal punishment those kids with "ADHD" would be paying attention out of fear of getting smacked on the ***.

I really don't believe in corporal punishment in school - but there are so many issues with discipline in school it's disastrous. Spanking, though, doesn't necessarily teach right from wrong - it can just as easily teach one wrong corrects another wrong.

For me, I didn't think "should I do this or am I going to get spanked for doing it". I thought "can I get away with this". I got more creative, I didn't learn right from wrong from spanking.

Agreed Ritalin isn't the answer (although I'm open to it sometimes being an option, but I really don't know enough on that area) - in my opinion it is another easy way to not really deal with something. Spanking "ADHD" kids wouldn't always help them, though, it might simply give them a reason to find a way to seem like they were actually paying attention more.

[busamboy]

Originally Posted by barryllium

A friend of my wife's recently said, "If I could give one piece of advice to parents, it would be spank your children." When my wife told me about this, I almost fell out of my seat. Really, that would be your one piece of advice? Not "love your children" or "be patient" or anything like that?

Anyway, this has me thinking - why spank children to begin with? What does it really teach children when they are spanked. I was spanked as a child, and all it really taught me was that being spanked hurts. That, and if you are bigger than someone you can get what you want by force.

I'm wondering if anyone really has a reason to spank children - because I just don't see it (and I'm willing to accept I just might not understand). I realize you really cannot reason with a 2-3 year old - but that doesn't mean spanking is the only other option. I've heard the argument that not spanking children doesn't "teach them discipline" - but aren't there other things that teach children discipline? And how do you teach a child that violence is wrong when violence is what you use to discipline? It all makes me think of a quote I once heard (and I can't remember who said it or the exact wording), but it essentially is "people aren't very creative when violence is an option".

I'm not trying to condemn anyone who has ever spanked their children - it's been widely accepted for a long time. I'm merely stating that I simply don't understand it, and am looking for people's insight either way. So - why spank children?

Well, I know that I am going to beat the crap out of my kids if they do something wrong. Not physically hurt them, but it will correct mistakes. Kids do not take any other punishment seriously. But it gives the parents a chance to interact with their kids. A kid that gets spanked will also want to be hugged. Love is pain, if you can teach a kid that early in his development, the better he will be socially and economically in the world. If you have a dumb kid though and know that he/she is dumb, then maybe spanking is not for them. I also really do not believe in spanking girls. A man is a man and he has to be raised a little differently in my opinion. Obviously by the time my kids would get to be a teenager, it is a little too late for spanking to correct mistakes. Then grounding is perfect because it takes away from their freedoms. I think every parent knows best when it is time for what punishment. But I definitely do not believe in time outs for little kids, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[barryllium]

Originally Posted by philhos

Spanking children is a form of punishment that they can readily understand. You cannot reason with a 3-year-old. They don't understand the concept of "if I do this, it's wrong" unles there is a negative consequence to that action.

I'm all in favor of spankings (and do so when necessary to my 2 children), but there are times it can cross the line. You should never spank when angry. You should make it as clear as you can the reason you are spanking. And it should never be more than a couple hits literally (more than 2 is excessive) with an open hand on the buttocks. (IMO, mothers can also slap a child across the face if the child says something completely disrespectful to her).

I also don't condemn parents who DON'T spank, as long as they replace it with a form of punishment that works. There's a lady that goes to my church and she never spanked her son (she let us know this constantly), but she made it a point to discipline him in other ways when he needed it and he's turned into a fine, young college man.

Do they really understand it, though, philhos? Would it make sense to you if you parked in a handicapped spot and someone beat the poop out of you? Sure, you may not park in a handicapped spot again, but would you really understand why you shouldn't because you got beat up?

Agreed, spanking in anger is never a good idea - that's just taking your frustration out on someone, which isn't good no matter what the age of the person having frustration taken out on them.

In the end, can you honestly say you didn't have another option any time you've spanked your children? Could you have taken away a favorite toy, unplugged the TV, or something that might even relate to the offense (something along the lines of no dessert for a week if a child stole a cookie from someone)?

Originally Posted by philhos

I agree completely!

I also find it interesting that when a child gets in trouble at school, many parents ask the school what the SCHOOL did or yelling at the SCHOOL, instead of reaming the kid out for getting into trouble. If my girls were ever to get into trouble at school (hasn't happened yet, knock on wood), you better believe I'm not going to care too much what the school did (unless they went overboard on punishment) and I'm going to make sure that my girls don't EVER get into trouble again.

Here we do agree. It's a sad thing how much many parents expect the school to raise/discipline their children. And how many parents will not admit that their child could ever do anything wrong, so someone else must be responsible. My wife deals with this every day.

Speaking of my wife, every year she talks with her students about violence and war (when she teaches All Quiet on the Western Front, I believe), and they get into the idea of justified violence. She ends up asking her students what works best for them as far as disciplining them and teaching them a lesson, and it never fails that the most well-adjusted children say that their parents explain to them why their actions disappointed them. They weren't spanked, they were just told they did something that was wrong and disappointed their parents, and told why. Just food for thought.

[barryllium]

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

On the same subject as "Alternative Means of Discipline". A woman refuses to spank her children for bad behavior and punishes them by having to read.

This is not directed at anyone but COMON! Reading should not be punishment. Reading is educational and recreational. Thats just bad parenting!

I also agree that this is a bad idea. Something that is a good thing should not be represented as a punishment.

[34inXXIII]

"I love my kids. I try to bring them up the right way, not spanking them. I find that I don't have to spank them. I find that waving the gun around pretty much gets the same job done!" - Denis Leary

[Samhain]

Originally Posted by IgnoreME

It is a different perspective thats for sure. I think that you believe that now that you are an adult looking back. Children do not think that way.



I was spanked as a child. I wish corporal punishment in school systems were still allowed. You best bet your *** that children feared the nun with the ruler and paddles, they did not act out in class as much.

Trust me, I also thought to myself as a child. Should I do this or am I going to get spanked for doing it. Teaches them right and wrong. Concequences for their actions.

I think of it this way, since when did we start giving children ritalin because they are hyperactive? Since when is drugs better than giving a kid a spanking?

I would bet if we still had corporal punishment those kids with "ADHD" would be paying attention out of fear of getting smacked on the ***.

I'm all for spanking kids. My parents beat the living daylights out of me, and I'm probably better off for it. I do, however disagree with the idea that teachers should be doing it. It's too much of a legal can of worms. There are also plenty of idiot teachers out there who may be prone to being a little heavy handed without knowing what's really going on with the kid. Parents, good ones anyway, should always know the details and are therefore in a better position to decide if it's time to break out the yardstick. It's kind of silly anyway. No nun at my school could ever scare me anyhwhere close to what my dad was capable of. It's pretty simple to me. Kid screws up, school calls parents, parents handle the corporal punishment. To boot, the kid gets to stew all day about the tanning his/her hide will recieve when the parents get wind of the problem.

[barryllium]

Originally Posted by busamboy

Well, I know that I am going to beat the crap out of my kids if they do something wrong. Not physically hurt them, but it will correct mistakes. Kids do not take any other punishment seriously. But it gives the parents a chance to interact with their kids. A kid that gets spanked will also want to be hugged. Love is pain, if you can teach a kid that early in his development, the better he will be socially and economically in the world. If you have a dumb kid though and know that he/she is dumb, then maybe spanking is not for them. I also really do not believe in spanking girls. A man is a man and he has to be raised a little differently in my opinion. Obviously by the time my kids would get to be a teenager, it is a little too late for spanking to correct mistakes. Then grounding is perfect because it takes away from their freedoms. I think every parent knows best when it is time for what punishment. But I definitely do not believe in time outs for little kids, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

I absolutely disagree with the idea that boys and girls should be raised differently. I think it stunts both sexes to treat them differently when you are raising them - and my personal opinion is that is the biggest thing that keeps men and women from relating as well as they could to each other as they get older. If I treat my daughter in a way that is different than how I would raise a boy, then I am deciding part of who she is for her. On the other hand, if - from birth - I learn who my daughter is and allow her to grow into who she really wants to be, then nothing has been decided for her.

It's important to teach boys that they need to respect women (I think this is part of what you are saying). On average, they will be bigger than girls, but it's important they don't use that to their advantage. But the truth is, I want any son I may have to respect everyone, not just because they are a boy and other people are girls. The idea of only spanking a boy makes me think the message is being sent that boys need to be tough and deal with pain. But in the end, that forces anyone (boy or girl) to disassociate from parts of themselves, which is never a good thing.

Love can be pain, as you said, but teaching them that early in the form of spanking can lead to terrible associations. They could learn that along with love comes the acceptance of causing physical pain. They can learn that love hurts and shy away from it - thus bottling up a part of themselves, disassociating themselves from their feelings - which can lead to not living a fulfilling life at it's best, and not valuing the feelings/emotions/lives of others at it's worst. There are better ways, in my opinion, to teach that love can hurt than spanking.

I'm a little confused on what you think is wrong with time outs, as they are a simplified version of grounding, which you think is perfect because it takes time away from their freedoms (I agree that grounding is great for children that have freedom to go places). Can you elaborate more? I'm just curious.

[bengaljacob]

I am 11 years old and my parents do not spank me, which allows me to take full advantage of them.

[IgnoreME]

Originally Posted by bengaljacob

I am 11 years old and my parents do not spank me, which allows me to take full advantage of them.

Awkward....

[HearUsRoar]

Originally Posted by bengaljacob

I am 11 years old and my parents do not spank me, which allows me to take full advantage of them.

Jacob? Is that you? That's the final straw bucko.

[jamiethelanky]

It is a question of building trust between parent and child. It should be a last resort. Most kids play up because most parents are bad at their job. Watch Supernanny, if you give time to your kids you should be fine. If they get torn astray and they are below the age of reason (say about 7 or 8) then spanking may be an option, but I think corner time, naughty step and being sent to their bedroom and having their toys locked away is just as effective.

If over 8, explain where they are going wrong. If that doesn't work take away priveleges.

[kjb034]

I don't have any children yet, but I will not be spanking them. My mom tried that with me a few times when she didn't know what else to do, but never really stuck with it. Either way, it just made me resent her and try harder to not get caught. It didn't teach me why I should respect her and do what she says, if anything I respected her less. I went through a few rough patches with my parents, but by the time I was 18 everything was great and I turned out pretty well.

[barryllium]

Originally Posted by jamiethelanky

It is a question of building trust between parent and child. It should be a last resort. Most kids play up because most parents are bad at their job. Watch Supernanny, if you give time to your kids you should be fine. If they get torn astray and they are below the age of reason (say about 7 or 8) then spanking may be an option, but I think corner time, naughty step and being sent to their bedroom and having their toys locked away is just as effective.

If over 8, explain where they are going wrong. If that doesn't work take away priveleges.

My feelings exactly. I have yet to find a reason why spanking would ever be necessary, but as I said in creating this thread I'm open to understanding why/when people think it is.

[philhos]

Originally Posted by barryllium

Do they really understand it, though, philhos? Would it make sense to you if you parked in a handicapped spot and someone beat the poop out of you? Sure, you may not park in a handicapped spot again, but would you really understand why you shouldn't because you got beat up?

First off, what kid is driving, let alone parking in a handicap spot.

Seriously, though, spanking should be used mostly as a result of disobeying repeatedly. If I tell my kids not to do something and they do it anyway, that doesn't mean instant spanking (although, it depends on the severity of the "crime" they committed). However, if I've told them 3 times and they STILL are doing something they shouldn't, then that means they haven't learned their lesson and they will with a spanking.

And they will also learn, because it's not just a matter of spanking them. It's a matter of telling them WHY they are being spanked. Then they will learn the reasons for the spanking.

And, BTW, speaking from experience, when I spank my kids it most certainly does NOT hurt me more than it hurts them. Any parent that says so is full of crap.

[busamboy]

Originally Posted by barryllium

I absolutely disagree with the idea that boys and girls should be raised differently. I think it stunts both sexes to treat them differently when you are raising them - and my personal opinion is that is the biggest thing that keeps men and women from relating as well as they could to each other as they get older. If I treat my daughter in a way that is different than how I would raise a boy, then I am deciding part of who she is for her. On the other hand, if - from birth - I learn who my daughter is and allow her to grow into who she really wants to be, then nothing has been decided for her.

It's important to teach boys that they need to respect women (I think this is part of what you are saying). On average, they will be bigger than girls, but it's important they don't use that to their advantage. But the truth is, I want any son I may have to respect everyone, not just because they are a boy and other people are girls. The idea of only spanking a boy makes me think the message is being sent that boys need to be tough and deal with pain. But in the end, that forces anyone (boy or girl) to disassociate from parts of themselves, which is never a good thing.

Love can be pain, as you said, but teaching them that early in the form of spanking can lead to terrible associations. They could learn that along with love comes the acceptance of causing physical pain. They can learn that love hurts and shy away from it - thus bottling up a part of themselves, disassociating themselves from their feelings - which can lead to not living a fulfilling life at it's best, and not valuing the feelings/emotions/lives of others at it's worst. There are better ways, in my opinion, to teach that love can hurt than spanking.

I'm a little confused on what you think is wrong with time outs, as they are a simplified version of grounding, which you think is perfect because it takes time away from their freedoms (I agree that grounding is great for children that have freedom to go places). Can you elaborate more? I'm just curious.

Grounding you do to teenagers to take away privileges, kids don't understand privileges yet. So they are not going to understand a time out. A time out is not worse than telling a kid he has to go to bed. How is that punishment. Going to bed is the worse punishment you would be giving the kid in his eyes. You don't hit boys after a certain age, and i don't feel that you should hit girls at all because that may allow them to accept being hit by future boyfriends. Regardless of how you look at it, Men are different than women, even with all the civil rights trying to make us equals. But 2 different people can never be equals because everyone is different. I am different from you and you are different from any women. If you beat your kids from age say, 5 to 10, you should only have to beat them maybe a maximum of 3 times for the same thing. If they keep doing the same thing there are consequences. It lays down the law, and the kid knows exactly what is coming from you. I got beat as a kid, and I got beat for doing a couple of other things wrong more than once. But there was some things that I did that just wasn't worth the punishment. Kids learn risk vs reward, they understand grownup privileges once you move on from the spanking to grounding. It is an easy transition. For any girls that I have, I will have to take my wifes word on how she should be raised. But girls tend to not want to make their father sad, so there is a lot she will stay away from because she cares about a fathers feelings if it is a loving family. Teenage boys on the other hand, don't think like that, don't care to think like that as they tend to only worry about their selves. And also, just to comment on it, yes it does make your son grow up more tough, but in a good way. I don't know about you, but everyone that I know that got beat as a kid when they did something wrong does not let people walk over them. They are seen as leaders because they are more likely to understand right from wrong, but that is debatable. But a man that has gone through his trials and tribulations, or spankings in this case, stand taller because of it. Ask anybody that has gone through the military if they feel and act more like a man. It shows too. A kid that gets spanked for doing wrong just tends to understand other people boundaries and gets them to think about other peoples feelings and emotions and how their actions affect more than just thierselves. If you spank your kid the right way, and not just beat the crap out of them for no reason. They know that you don't enjoy it, even at a young age they can tell that.