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Old 12-24-2008, 03:32 PM
belfryky belfryky is offline
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Default I hate the kneel down

I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
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Old 12-24-2008, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by belfryky View Post
I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
I honestly dont think its that big of a deal. :mellow:
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

its a free play we could try something deep and if we get intercepted then i won't matter
talking 5 yards is boring and sometimes they don't give it
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by belfryky View Post
I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
i agree it is stupid to kneel down just fire the ball 20+ yards down the field and see what happens
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

Not that I'd like to agree w/CollinsSmurf about anything, but I would like us to be more aggressive when someone jumps offsides. It's a free shot for pete's sake. Peyton wouldn't take a knee...
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

I'm tiring of the quick snap/kneel down trying to catch a defender offsides as well, but they'll be in no position to take the "free play" unless that happens at the time the snap was originally intended to take place.

If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.

About the only way I see that they can go deep on such a "free play" is if they already have a pass play called and the defender jumped just prior to the intended snap of the ball. Then they would either have to have a receiver already running a deep route of have one designated as changing his route to go deep when he reads the likely offsides call.

Clearly the Bengals' quick snap/kneel down play is designed to occur well before the intended snap because no other player moves besides the center and QB.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

I'm tiring of the quick snap/kneel down trying to catch a defender offsides as well, but they'll be in no position to take the "free play" unless that happens at the time the snap was originally intended to take place.

If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.

About the only way I see that they can go deep on such a "free play" is if they already have a pass play called and the defender jumped just prior to the intended snap of the ball. Then they would either have to have a receiver already running a deep route of have one designated as changing his route to go deep when he reads the likely offsides call.

Clearly the Bengals' quick snap/kneel down play is designed to occur well before the intended snap because no other player moves besides the center and QB.
Okay then only use the free play when a pass play has been called. I'll take being aggressive 50% of the time over none of the time.

I don't care if the defense has an advantage to be honest, it's minimal at best and odds are they just commited a penalty, so whatever positive outcome went to the opponent, is negated by that penalty.

In the case where they actually weren't offsides and our QB just assumes they were...

Either 1.) you have a free play where odds are, I'd guess, about 50% that we'd complete a pass or cause the opponent to commit another penalty, e.g. pass interference, 40% that it would be incomplete and 10% interception or a sack.

Or 2.) you take a kneel down and giftwrap a 7 yard sack for our opponents.

I like those odds and I would be ecstatic to see the outcome, even if only 50% of the time.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

i like the kneel when carson and rich did it.for every 1 time he did it for nothing it worked 3-4 times so its 5extra yards2me.

fitz doesnt doit,and eric does it when he wants to(w/o fitz's knowledge...fumble)
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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i like the kneel when carson and rich did it.for every 1 time he did it for nothing it worked 3-4 times so its 5extra yards2me.

fitz doesnt doit,and eric does it when he wants to(w/o fitz's knowledge...fumble)


Yeah Eric seemingly does not know what is going on sometimes...a lot of the time, I meant.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

I think most are missing the point on the kneel down... It only happens when the snap wasn't supposed to happen..

One example: Carson comes up, "hut hut".. nobody jumps, so then he reacts to the Defense by making pre-play adjustments, then snaps and the play ensues..

2nd example: Carson comes up, "hut hut"... someone on the defense jumps- they take a knee and we get 5 yards, instead of letting the defender get back to his spot, going through the adjustments and calling a hike...

Like was said above, you obviously take the free play if someone were to jump at the same exact time of the snap.. that DOES happen..
You don't take a free play when the Center and QB just snap the ball with no one else knowing and assume you can pull off some kind of play... the refs would most likely blow the call dead if the QB was dropping back with the ball and everyone else on the offense was trying to figure out whats going on...

Last edited by ralex; 12-24-2008 at 06:48 PM. Reason: ...
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by ralex View Post
I think most are missing the point on the kneel down... It only happens when the snap wasn't supposed to happen..

One example: Carson comes up, "hut hut".. nobody jumps, so then he reacts to the Defense by making pre-play adjustments, then snaps and the play ensues..

2nd example: Carson comes up, "hut hut"... someone on the defense jumps- they take a knee and we get 5 yards, instead of letting the defender get back to his spot, going through the adjustments and calling a hike...

Like was said above, you obviously take the free play if someone were to jump at the same exact time of the snap.. that DOES happen..
You don't take a free play when the Center and QB just snap the ball with no one else knowing and assume you can pull off some kind of play... the refs would most likely blow the call dead if the QB was dropping back with the ball and everyone else on the offense was trying to figure out whats going on...
I think you are missing the point then. Other teams go for the free play moreso than ZERO percent of the time. It's simply a microchosm of our franchise, it really is. It's timidity personified. It's more of "playing not to lose" than it is "playing to win".
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by HearUsRoar View Post
I think you are missing the point then. Other teams go for the free play moreso than ZERO percent of the time. It's simply a microchosm of our franchise, it really is. It's timidity personified. It's more of "playing not to lose" than it is "playing to win".

We don't go for the free play ZERO times, if the snap count falls in line with the offsides then we would go for it, and we have... The kneel down only occurs when the offsides occurs before the offense is ready to snap it, based on the snap count they were given in the huddle.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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We don't go for the free play ZERO times, if the snap count falls in line with the offsides then we would go for it, and we have... The kneel down only occurs when the offsides occurs before the offense is ready to snap it, based on the snap count they were given in the huddle.
No we do not. I haven't missed a game in...well, I honestly can't think of the last time I missed a game. I also can't tell you the last time we took advantage of a free play. I would venture to guess it was during the Sam Wyche era, the last coach we had worth a damn.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

Well if your certain that we've never taken advantage of a free play then yes that is very dumb, but I would imagine that, more often than not, the kneel down occurs before the play is ready to be run...
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

It's all Bratworst's fault anyway. Get a new OC.
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by belfryky View Post
I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
I'm on your side with this. WE know what is going on, but when we kneel down
and no flag is thrown, the announcers are completely lost on tv. We've lost downs
this way. It should be a free play, and we give up and sacrifice ourselves. I don't
think we have become exactly experts here, as i said we've done it when there
is no flag.
I think Collinsworth is right. I'm sure as a receiver he was taught to watch the
ball and if the teams goes offside, to go deep. At worst we get 5 yards anyway.
Might as well have a play instead of kneeling down.
This one just does irk me.
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Old 12-24-2008, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

I can't even put into words how dumb it is to complain about 5 free yards...


"Well they could be going for the home run ball"

blah, blah,blah...we take the 5 yards it sets us up with managable down and distance situations...never look the gift horse in the mouth...

First time they chuck it deep and the defense intercepts it with the "offside" defender getting back into position without the flag...people will be griping the other way...

"Why didn't he just take the knee"...
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

Th kneel down is ridiculous, plain and simple. No other team in the NFL does this. Why do we? Because of the timing? Come on now. Do you honestly think that the Bengals are so adept at the hard count they are the only team drawing defenses offsides? Other teams take the shot, we don't. That's a fact.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

I'm tiring of the quick snap/kneel down trying to catch a defender offsides as well, but they'll be in no position to take the "free play" unless that happens at the time the snap was originally intended to take place.

If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.

About the only way I see that they can go deep on such a "free play" is if they already have a pass play called and the defender jumped just prior to the intended snap of the ball. Then they would either have to have a receiver already running a deep route of have one designated as changing his route to go deep when he reads the likely offsides call.

Clearly the Bengals' quick snap/kneel down play is designed to occur well before the intended snap because no other player moves besides the center and QB.
34... that was beuatifully done...again.

Most people don't understand there may be a motion or line se not complete.

Props to you
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by londonbengalfan View Post
its a free play we could try something deep and if we get intercepted then i won't matter
talking 5 yards is boring and sometimes they don't give it
Agreed. Toss it downfield. Whats the worst that can happen? A bengals score?
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Agreed. Toss it downfield. Whats the worst that can happen? A bengals score?
Please see 34's comments.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Please see 34's comments.
I read them, and those are his opinions. If i agree withanyone its HearUsRoar.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by ishouldbegm View Post
i agree it is stupid to kneel down just fire the ball 20+ yards down the field and see what happens
I saw a team try to quick snap and run a play when the defense jumped offsides last weekend.

The defense jumped off side, the center snapped it, and the receivers took off, the quarterback dropped back. The problem was that the rest of the offensive line didn't realize the ball had been hiked, but the defensive line, who were looking at the ball did know it. The defense rushed past an immobile offensive line and nearly killed the quarterback.

Snap the ball, kneel down, take the five yards.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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I read them, and those are his opinions. If i agree withanyone its HearUsRoar.

No they are the facts that surround play calling
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
[color="darkorange"]Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

\
If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.
COLOR]
More than likely, if the d is offsides, it is 1 player, so only 1 offensive lineman has the possibility of being beat. Also, no ones responsibilty should be changed due to it being offsides. You run the play thats been called.
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