Carson Palmer : Bill of Goods

[RhodeIslandFan]

I'd just like to see that 17pt average from 09 double up. or even move to 31. The way Palmers been playing it looks highly unlikely. I wonder how long before T.O speaks out about Palmers accuracy issues.

[34inXXIII]

Originally Posted by WeezyBengal

Do you guys realize that carson has NEVER won a playoff game? Flacco went to the afc championship game with his "awesome" weapons he had on defense a few years ago. Gimme a break.

What's your point here? OK, I get your point about Palmer not having won a playoff game, but I don't understand the point of bringing up Flacco winning in the postseason since there are his stats in those victories:

9-23, 135 yds, 0 TD, 0 Int
11-22, 161 yds, 1 TD, 0 Int
4-10, 34 yds, 0 TD, 1 Int

I'm pretty confident Carson could pull off those numbers. Actually, he pretty much did just that last season in the Wild Card playoff game.

Furthermore, here are the stats from Flacco's playoff losses....

13-30, 141 yds, 0 TD, 3 Int
20-35, 189 yds, 0 TD, 2 Int

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point, but trying to reinforce Palmer's shortcomings by promoting Flacco's postseason success seems inappropriate.

[ATLBengalLM]

When Carson runs the no-huddle, the offense clicks and moves the ball.

Originally Posted by who dey 9

yep its as simple as that

It's amazing isn't it. Why doesn't anyone else seem to notice this. If it works, use it.

The fact that they do not, is just beyond me. Can someone figure out how to cut the communications between Carson and Brat. That's what we really need.

[IrishBengalFan]

I dont post here often, love reading the boards sometimes, and this topic is of course the most important right now. I know my opinion is going to get lost in this thread, but i beg of you, ALL OF YOU ON BOTH SIDES to look at it objectively.

1. Palmer was NEVER elite. But he WAS an excellent QB with a lot of potential.

2. Injuries have sidetracked his career, but he has a few years left.

3. He has the tools to be that excellent QB again, but he has to get going soon, because right now, he is holding this offense and team back.

On one side, some people blindly want to say he is still elite. You guys are sadly mistaken, but you are right in saying he can regain some measure of form.

On the other side, some people say the season is lost because of Palmer. This is also total bullcrap. It is a team sport. Palmer will have to improve his game big time for us to beat the Manning's and Brady's of the AFC, but you cannot judge his performance for the season until we get into the season. It is only week 3. Have some patience. Also remember that he is right now at this early stage of the season a mid tier passer.

I am taking no sides, that is just an objective view.

IN MY OPINION, Carson's play the last two games leaves A LOT to be desired. He himself has said he has ******. Lets all put our faith as fans of this team into him and hope his level of play improves to the point we can ALL say, yes, Carson is improving, Carson is making his adjustments, etc. etc.

[BlackSunshyne]

Originally Posted by battey60

I have no problem with his contract. At the time it made alot of sense.

Heading into the 06 season you're correct, it did make a sense. He was coming off his best year and looked to be headed into the upper echelon of QBs in the league. Unfortunately now in 2010 the Bengals are paying 10 million per year and going up for a mediocre QB. Not good.

[Robbie Sharp]

Originally Posted by HearUsRoar

Prepare to be flamed for not praising "the Messiah".

Next thing you know he will be running down our coaching staff!!

[Millz]

I am waiting a few games before I pass my armchair judgment on Carson, offense, etc. In the last two games, he has had only one receiver that he has played with on Sunday before this season (Chad). The ones right now like Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and even Shaub have all their receivers back from last year and it showing for them guys. I am not saying this an excuse, but it could be a factor only two games in the season. What we need to see happen is the o-line pass block better, see more Bernard when we go with the 3 wr- 1 te sets, and go no-huddle more often. I said before the season began in here that I thought Carson was in the 10-15 range of QBs in the league with potential of moving up. I still think that.

[Jungle bum]

Originally Posted by IrishBengalFan

I dont post here often, love reading the boards sometimes, and this topic is of course the most important right now. I know my opinion is going to get lost in this thread, but i beg of you, ALL OF YOU ON BOTH SIDES to look at it objectively.

1. Palmer was NEVER elite. But he WAS an excellent QB with a lot of potential.

2. Injuries have sidetracked his career, but he has a few years left.

3. He has the tools to be that excellent QB again, but he has to get going soon, because right now, he is holding this offense and team back.

On one side, some people blindly want to say he is still elite. You guys are sadly mistaken, but you are right in saying he can regain some measure of form.

On the other side, some people say the season is lost because of Palmer. This is also total bullcrap. It is a team sport. Palmer will have to improve his game big time for us to beat the Manning's and Brady's of the AFC, but you cannot judge his performance for the season until we get into the season. It is only week 3. Have some patience. Also remember that he is right now at this early stage of the season a mid tier passer.

I am taking no sides, that is just an objective view.

IN MY OPINION, Carson's play the last two games leaves A LOT to be desired. He himself has said he has ******. Lets all put our faith as fans of this team into him and hope his level of play improves to the point we can ALL say, yes, Carson is improving, Carson is making his adjustments, etc. etc.

Thanks for gracing us with your presence. I won't let your important post get buried in the thread. You make some good points but they might be buried in your condescending tone.

WoW....

[henrizzle]

Originally Posted by elmalloc

These threads are absolute jokes. Crying that Carson didn't put up numbers against the Ravens defense?

I don't give a **** if Carson doesn't get 300 yards the rest of the year as long as we win. I'm very surprised at how dumb some of the forum members are! Who cares if he's awesome, average, or bad. He can be bad and we can win (ALA Mark Sanchez).

-ELmO

agreed. Look at the ravens/bengals games in recent years, i can't think of one that went over 30 points.
Give palmer sometime to get his stuff together. Wait until week 4 or 6 then judge him.
Also, people citing passer ratings, give me a break.
Tom Brady has only one season with a 100+ passer rating, and that was the infamous 2007 season where if you need a refresher, they lost in the superbowl to the Giants and Eli Manning who had a 73.9 passer rating and 20 interceptions. Palmer has only had one below that and that was when he only played 4 games. Eli had a great season last year, maybe his best as far as numbers go, but look at that, his team didn't even make the playoffs.

[Storm]

I wonder if Palmer is fed up with Brats offense and has checked out?

Last year I suspected there was an injury he was hiding, still could be the case, maybe its his elbow? since he declined tommy john surgery we really don't have any comparisons to see how long it will take to heel on its own if at all, maybe he has a shoulder injury?

I think they owe it to him to fire Brat and bring in someone else just to see if thats the problem, if it isn't then they can start thinking of the next franchise QB, if he continues to struggle then they need to do something.

[Jungle bum]

Originally Posted by Storm

I wonder if Palmer is fed up with Brats offense and has checked out?

Last year I suspected there was an injury he was hiding, still could be the case, maybe its his elbow? since he declined tommy john surgery we really don't have any comparisons to see how long it will take to heel on its own if at all, maybe he has a shoulder injury?

I think they owe it to him to fire Brat and bring in someone else just to see if thats the problem, if it isn't then they can start thinking of the next franchise QB, if he continues to struggle then they need to do something.

Agreed. Easier to replace some half wit OC than find another quarterback.

[Joe from Florence]

Originally Posted by TKuhl

No way not me, WAIT! didnt they both win at least 1 playoff game.

you do realize that Football is actually a team sport?

in case you didn't get the memo, it is.

Let me help you out a little.
you see there are 3 phases to a football game, there is the special teams, the defense and the offense.

Now when one of any of those phases are on the field their are 11 players per team on the field at one time.

That means that 1 player can't do anything without the help of the other 10 on his team on the field at the same time.

you follow me yet?

so you are just like many of the other lemmings around the country who believe the QB is responsible for every win and loss a team has.

let me simply take you back to the year 2005.
There was a game that year called the Super Bowl. The Pittsburgh Steelers won that game. Their almighty QB was probably the worst player on the field for his team that game as his QB Rating showed after the game. The funny thing is, his team still won the game. Not because of him, but actually in spite of him.

you see, it was all the other players on that team that had more to do with winning that game than the QB did.

I hope this little lesson of football 101 helped.

let me give it to you another way.

Because you believe the QB is respnsible for wins and losses in the playoffs. Can I ask you how many Super Bowl wins the 2 best QB's in the league have? Peyton M<anning and Drew Brees.....I believe they have been in this league for quite some time....longer than Palmer. Now according to your logic, they should each have around 5 Super Bowl championships under their belt, since they are the best in the league and have been in the league at least 10 years each.

did you figure out yet how many SB wins each has yet? Let me help you out, the answer is 1 each

so how is that possible if you have the 2 best QB's in the entire league and they only have 1 SB each after a combined 20 seasons in the league?

hmmmm....puzzling isn't it?

[Jungle bum]

Originally Posted by Joe from Florence

you do realize that Football is actually a team sport?

in case you didn't get the memo, it is.

Let me help you out a little.
you see there are 3 phases to a football game, there is the special teams, the defense and the offense.

Now when one of any of those phases are on the field their are 11 players per team on the field at one time.

That means that 1 player can't do anything without the help of the other 10 on his team on the field at the same time.

you follow me yet?

so you are just like many of the other lemmings around the country who believe the QB is responsible for every win and loss a team has.

let me simply take you back to the year 2005.
There was a game that year called the Super Bowl. The Pittsburgh Steelers won that game. Their almighty QB was probably the worst player on the field for his team that game as his QB Rating showed after the game. The funny thing is, his team still won the game. Not because of him, but actually in spite of him.

you see, it was all the other players on that team that had more to do with winning that game than the QB did.

I hope this little lesson of football 101 helped.

let me give it to you another way.

Because you believe the QB is respnsible for wins and losses in the playoffs. Can I ask you how many Super Bowl wins the 2 best QB's in the league have? Peyton M<anning and Drew Brees.....I believe they have been in this league for quite some time....longer than Palmer. Now according to your logic, they should each have around 5 Super Bowl championships under their belt, since they are the best in the league and have been in the league at least 10 years each.

did you figure out yet how many SB wins each has yet? Let me help you out, the answer is 1 each

so how is that possible if you have the 2 best QB's in the entire league and they only have 1 SB each after a combined 20 seasons in the league?

hmmmm....puzzling isn't it?

My appollogies IrishBengalFan. This is the most condescending waist of time post I have ever read.

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

stats dont tell the story of a team... if had been a fan then you would have known what was going on or your just stupid...

lets see 07 we had 0 Defense non and were constantly playing from behind and when you have to throw more you are gonna get picked more. its pretty simple stuff.

....

playing from behind in 07 doesnt help

Great example of what qualifies as an "excuse" for Carson. In fact, in 2007 Carson threw 20 INTs and 8 of those came when we were leading and 1 was with the score tied. So, being behind can explain some of the INTs, but certainly not all of them. Even of the 11 remaining INTs, 4 came when we were trailing by a TD or less, so not exactly desperate situations where the QB has no choice but to take a chance.

[thebullfrog24]

Honestly i think this is just the new theme of the week. Your probably the same guy that was calling for zimmers head last week.

Yeah he had a bad game, against the ravens. I'll definately give you that, he missed some key plays that he should have made.

But can we take a look at the previous years

2005-2007 with about 4000 yard seasons (2005 he had 3836)

2008 he played 5 games

2009 yardage was down but we also changed our offense to commit towards the run and make him more of a game manager

We are 2 games into the season...will you please calm down!!

3 outta of his 4 main options are new (t.o. shipley gresham), Give him till game 5 before you wanna bench him and put in Jordan palmer hahaha

[devils advocate]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

Great example of what qualifies as an "excuse" for Carson. In fact, in 2007 Carson threw 20 INTs and 8 of those came when we were leading and 1 was with the score tied. So, being behind can explain some of the INTs, but certainly not all of them. Even of the 11 remaining INTs, 4 came when we were trailing by a TD or less, so not exactly desperate situations where the QB has no choice but to take a chance.

Funny thing about 20 int seasons is that almost every elite QB of the last 20 - 25 years have one, or close to it..... and some of those elite QB's have multiple 20 int seasons.

[TrojanPride]

I haven't read all the pages in the thread because I already know what they say in the end this is what it comes down to....

Is Carson elite? No. Is Carson near his 2005 form? No. Can he get back to that form? Yes but it's not looking great. Does that mean he is terrible? No, 2005 was a top 20 year for a QB in NFL history. Does that mean that we can't win with him? Um no and it is ridiculous suggest so. Is he overpaid at $10 million a year? Maybe slightly but have you seen what all starting QB's make in the NFL. Have you seen what guys like Eli Manning and David Garrard make? Is it possible to point out short-commings on the team as a whole and not be making excuses for Palmer at the same time? Absolutely, Palmer last year and so far this year has not been as accurate as he was in the past. He looks shaky in the pocket at times. At the same time we also had some of the worst pass recieving skill players in the league last year. In 2006 and 2007 we had a terrible defense and **** poor running game.

Is another thread like this useful? No, it's ridiculously tiring and reptitive. Why am I responding to it then? I'm a Bengals fan

[Utts]

Originally Posted by rydogg707

Can I reference your post when he wins us a playoff game this year?

He is the reason they won't make the playoffs.

[RedBengal9]

Carson's the new Trent Green, plain and simple. He's a great QB...but not elite.

The problem is people get on here with an emotional kick going and post the first thing that flies out of their brain without thinking twice about it...then the rest of us subject ourselves to reading it.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by BigTuna513

First of all there are about 3 teams in the NFL right now that have great o-lines. Beyond that most are average. Carson has a better line then most teams I would this o-line in the top 10. If you don't agree you haven't been watching a lot of teams.

WTF??????????????

TUNA,,,are you freaking serious? This O line is top 10????????? They havent even been very good run blocking so far,,,let alone giving palmer time like brady had. And then on top of that THE PENALTIES,,,,,top 10???? More like 20th.

[TKuhl]

Im with alot of you about Palmers poor play,ive been bashing him myself, but before we write him off i think we would all like to see what he can do under a NEW OC, let Palmer run the no huddle, shotgun offense, call his own plays like he wants to do, he wants to run the offense like Peyton, there is no chemistry on offense, so it cant get any worse if we brought in a new OC mid-season. Still wish we would have got Marx when we had the chance. I say FIRE BRAT once and for all, and see what Palmer can do from there. QB to be Elite.

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by thebullfrog24

Honestly i think this is just the new theme of the week.

New theme where have you been for the last 3 years. There are at least 5 of these stupid threads started every week either by the Carson homers or the Carson haters. The same stupid talking points are repeated over and over again. And as is the case with most things in life the reality of the situation lies somewhere in between.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by elmalloc

These threads are absolute jokes. Crying that Carson didn't put up numbers against the Ravens defense?

I don't give a **** if Carson doesn't get 300 yards the rest of the year as long as we win. I'm very surprised at how dumb some of the forum members are! Who cares if he's awesome, average, or bad. He can be bad and we can win (ALA Mark Sanchez).

-ELmO

Hmmm,,,he has been bad at times, and guess what, we dont win. Maybe reg games here and there, but not playoff games. Sanchez is total garbo, yet somehow that team made it to the AFC champ game in his ROOKIE year. I dont think carson stinks, but he is not what he used to be, and chad and TO are older than they used to be, and our coaching stinks, if any of you think we will make it to the SB or go deep in the playoffs you are sorely mistaken.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by momadance02

Dude, we've had TWO games. Shipley is NOT Wes Welker. Our 1st rounder on the OL has been awful, our 6th highest rushing back from last year hasn't done squat, Carson had ONE bad game against an ELITE defense, and Chad and TO have already dropped balls.


Sorry we're not putting up great stats for you, but we just beat an incredibly tough Baltimore team. Nobody is going to put up stats against them.

Umm NO,,,,,you are talking of TWO potential HOF WRs along with what so far looks to be good slot WR in shipley and a good TE in gresham. Not to mention having a D that is respectable. And then having benson and scott running (even though they dont know how to use scott) and for this team to look this inept is just pathetic!!!!!

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by momadance02

19th in QB rating after a whopping TWO games. One AT New England and one against the Ravens.


ha.

And the rest of the schedule other than a few games is extremely rough, so what will be your excuse then?? "oh but we played great teams all year" Well,,,,GREAT QBS AND GREAT TEAMS FIND A WAY TO DO IT,,,,they may look bad once in a blue moon, but not ALL THE TIME LIKE THE BENGALS DO.