Time to part ways with Rivers.

[GreenDragon]

I think as soon as he's cleared, it's time to part ways with Keith Rivers. There have to be other teams that would be interested in a possible trade. Maybe a late round draft pick or two.

[khamla]

If we didn't cut him when he was injured why cut him when he's expected to be ready. We need depth, he's quality depth whether people like it or not. For the people who say he's not then u better be saying that to Geathers too. What if Manny or Rey tear something in preseason or training camp. This happens all the time. It's going to happen to someone but who. We need depth at all positions. Why do you think our pass rush did so this year? It was because we sub in and out.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Id keep him around for depth purposes only, he hasnt really proven that he's reliable enough to be a quality starter.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by khamla

If we didn't cut him when he was injured why cut him when he's expected to be ready. We need depth, he's quality depth whether people like it or not. For the people who say he's not then u better be saying that to Geathers too. What if Manny or Rey tear something in preseason or training camp. This happens all the time. It's going to happen to someone but who. We need depth at all positions. Why do you think our pass rush did so this year? It was because we sub in and out.

Pretty sure you're not allowed to do that

[grampahol]

They'll evaluate him in training camp and let him compete for his job..if he does great he'll stay. If someone beats him out they'll make a move..one way or another..

[ODRAB14]

I will always say that Rivers was the right pick at #9 that year even with Mayo right behind him. At the time he was the right pick.

With that said Rivers have been a bust. Simply has not lived up to the potential. I would keep him around for Depth but he simply has not cut it

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by ODRAB14

With that said Rivers have been a bust. Simply has not lived up to the potential. I would keep him around for Depth but he simply has not cut it

He may not have lived up to his draft status, but he is not a bust. His a starting quality OLB. It would be crazy to just cut him.

[Who Dey Time]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

He may not have lived up to his draft status, but he is not a bust. His a starting quality OLB. It would be crazy to just cut him.

Agreed. And to the OP, it makes no sense to cut him unless you know that you have a solution in place once he is off the roster. This is especially relevant since you might not have Maualuga on the roster Week 1

[thebullfrog24]

I feel like people are hating on keith rivers because he's only a solid LB and not a great LB like we thought he was. I think people are forgetting his upside, he had a good year in 08 and solid years when he's not injured. He's not a starter right now but he's a great backup

[PApinhead]

Although I am disappointed in Rivers, I too think he is at least a good back-up and that we should keep him for depth.

[jj22]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

He may not have lived up to his draft status, but he is not a bust. His a starting quality OLB. It would be crazy to just cut him.

Thank you Fred. Not sure why people have forgot. Not lived up to his potential? He never had potential. He was who he was coming out and we knew that. He's solid. If not for the injuries we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. I've seen him have some good games. And I've seen him take over some games (Chargers 09, Cowboys 08 just to name a few couple ones). He's not Patrick Willis, but we never thought he was and he was never suppose to be. He needs to stay healthy for a fullyear so we can get a true eval of him.

[Goose]

Originally Posted by khamla

If we didn't cut him when he was injured why cut him when he's expected to be ready. We need depth, he's quality depth whether people like it or not. For the people who say he's not then u better be saying that to Geathers too. What if Manny or Rey tear something in preseason or training camp. This happens all the time. It's going to happen to someone but who. We need depth at all positions. Why do you think our pass rush did so this year? It was because we sub in and out.

I think Rivers is a fine player, and should help Zimm.

[caddie]

Originally Posted by yellowxdiscipline

Id keep him around for depth purposes only, he hasnt really proven that he's reliable enough to be a quality starter.

Yeah I second this he may not be a legit starter anymore but lets be fair if healthy is a hell of a rotational guy.

[et2house]

The only reason I would cut or trade him is to save money. What's his cap number on his rookie contract where he was #10 pick in the old rookie wage system? TBS, it's not like the team doesn't have the cap space to carry him as depth if they wanted to.

[grampahol]

Rivers has hsd his share of pain, no doubt, but when healthy he's solid. His injuries will lower the contract he'll want even if he has a solid season.

[GreenDragon]

If they want him as a backup, they'll have to rework his contract definitely.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by et2house

The only reason I would cut or trade him is to save money. What's his cap number on his rookie contract where he was #10 pick in the old rookie wage system?.

Originally Posted by GreenDragon

If they want him as a backup, they'll have to rework his contract definitely.

Rivers will only make $2.16 million this year. He got all the big money up front and is now playing for peanuts.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Rivers will only make $2.16 million this year. He got all the big money up front and is now playing for peanuts.

I was going to say that too...Why cut him? Then someone will get injured and we'll realize that the backups are scrubs.

Rivers is actually better than Howard...

What exactly doesn't Rivers do well enough to be on the roster? And don't say pass rush.

[bfine32]

I thought I have read/heard (don't ask for a link cause I don't have one) that Rivers may be the one that wants traded. I think this desire will be intensified if he is relegated to a reserve role and then required to earn his money on ST.

There very well could be another team out there that is willing to take on reclamation projects such as the Bengals do. Wonder what Carroll would give to have his old WLB back?

[et2house]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Rivers will only make $2.16 million this year. He got all the big money up front and is now playing for peanuts.

Then no reason to cut him. He's a solid player at a cheap price, can't have too many of those around with all the injuries that occur. Rivers' own injury history makes the case.

[JohnHenry]

Not sure what people are looking for from Rivers.

The WLB position on a team that mainly uses an under-shifted front is not a “WOW” position.
The position in the scheme is protected by the front and the goal is to filter the running play to the weak side.
Therefore, WLBs in this scheme should make a lot of tackles – along with the MLB who really should have the most.

Rivers main job is to be at or near the top of the team in tackles, and for the most part he’s done that.
Again, he’s not a 5-technique DE, or a 3-4 SOLB, or a 3-4 SS, so there just won’t be a lot of “WOW” associated with his position.

In addition, if you want a measuring stick for Rivers or Howard for that matter, use Derrick Brooks.
Derrick Brooks was a WLB with Tampa Bay which also played a 4-3 defense and used an under-shifted front most of the time.
Brooks was an 11x Pro-Bowler, 9x All-Pro, NFL linebacker of the year, Defensive player of the year, and named to the all 2000s team.
Real strong resume if you ask me.

Here are Derrick Brooks career stats:
14 year career
Games played – 224
Games started – 221
Games started per year – 15.78
Tackles – 1,715 (7.7 per games started)
Sacks – 13.5
Interceptions – 25

Notice that Brooks didn’t have a lot of sacks but had A WHOLE LOT OF TACKLES which was his main responsibility.

Here are Rivers career stats:
4 year career
Games played – 35
Games started – 33
Games started per year – 8.25
Tackles – 186 (5.63 per games started)
Sacks – 2
Interceptions – 2

With that said… Rivers certainly won’t be considered for any All-Pro teams anytime soon but his stats aren’t awful either.
However, he MUST stay on the field. They can’t afford to keep paying for and reserving a roster spot for a player that’s going to keep getting injured.
I know the injuries weren’t always his fault but the NFL is a bottom line business and he has to be there.

Further, Thomas Howard has turned out to be a good free agent pick-up.
He was a 2nd round pick and highly regarded coming out of college too, and is every bit the athlete that Rivers is.
I like them both, but Howard just seems to have some swagger that I don’t see from Rivers.
Making a tackle is one thing but knocking a guy on his A S S is another, and Rivers needs to add that component to his game.
So, let them battle it out in training camp and may the best man start, while the other is kept for injury management.

Regarding his draft position, IMO they drafted the position too high regardless of the player.
In general, the 9th overall selection shouldn’t be used on a 4-3 WLB.
That selection should be reserved for a 5-technique DE, or a QB, or a 4-3 MLB, or a DT, or a CB for example... Maybe even a 4-3 SLB.
Finding a WLB that’s durable and can tackle should be left for later rounds… just my opinion.

[hacker]

This is the first time Rivers may find himself on the bench. Just maybe that lights a fire under him. It would be crazy to unload him now. Let's see how he plays and if he needs to be cut, so be it

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

I was going to say that too...Why cut him? Then someone will get injured and we'll realize that the backups are scrubs.

Rivers is actually better than Howard...

What exactly doesn't Rivers do well enough to be on the roster? And don't say pass rush.

RIvers is not better than Howard. What do you base this off of? I hope not stats because that will be a losing battle. Howard is a much better LB than Rivers and that is from the eye test. I used to have to check to see if we even had a WLB on the field. It is nice during a game to actually know he is out there because he is making plays.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

Not sure what people are looking for from Rivers.

The WLB position on a team that mainly uses an under-shifted front is not a WOW position.
The position in the scheme is protected by the front and the goal is to filter the running play to the weak side.
Therefore, WLBs in this scheme should make a lot of tackles  along with the MLB who really should have the most.

Rivers main job is to be at or near the top of the team in tackles, and for the most part hes done that.
Again, hes not a 5-technique DE, or a 3-4 SOLB, or a 3-4 SS, so there just wont be a lot of WOW associated with his position.

In addition, if you want a measuring stick for Rivers or Howard for that matter, use Derrick Brooks.
Derrick Brooks was a WLB with Tampa Bay which also played a 4-3 defense and used an under-shifted front most of the time.
Brooks was an 11x Pro-Bowler, 9x All-Pro, NFL linebacker of the year, Defensive player of the year, and named to the all 2000s team.
Real strong resume if you ask me.

Here are Derrick Brooks career stats:
14 year career
Games played  224
Games started  221
Games started per year  15.78
Tackles  1,715 (7.7 per games started)
Sacks  13.5
Interceptions  25

Notice that Brooks didnt have a lot of sacks but had A WHOLE LOT OF TACKLES which was his main responsibility.

Here are Rivers career stats:
4 year career
Games played  35
Games started  33
Games started per year  8.25
Tackles  186 (5.63 per games started)
Sacks  2
Interceptions  2

With that said Rivers certainly wont be considered for any All-Pro teams anytime soon but his stats arent awful either.
However, he MUST stay on the field. They cant afford to keep paying for and reserving a roster spot for a player thats going to keep getting injured.
I know the injuries werent always his fault but the NFL is a bottom line business and he has to be there.

Further, Thomas Howard has turned out to be a good free agent pick-up.
He was a 2nd round pick and highly regarded coming out of college too, and is every bit the athlete that Rivers is.
I like them both, but Howard just seems to have some swagger that I dont see from Rivers.
Making a tackle is one thing but knocking a guy on his A S S is another, and Rivers needs to add that component to his game.
So, let them battle it out in training camp and may the best man start, while the other is kept for injury management.

Regarding his draft position, IMO they drafted the position too high regardless of the player.
In general, the 9th overall selection shouldnt be used on a 4-3 WLB.
That selection should be reserved for a 5-technique DE, or a QB, or a 4-3 MLB, or a DT, or a CB for example... Maybe even a 4-3 SLB.
Finding a WLB thats durable and can tackle should be left for later rounds just my opinion.

Terrible argument. What exactly did comparing Rivers to Brooks accomplish? Brooks smoked him in tackles, was great in coverage and had 25 career picks which is sick for a LB. Thomas Howard had a 100 tackles in his only season here. Rivers hasn't even approached 100. He wasn't a total bust, but he was certainly a disappointment. It's time to move on. Any other team would.

[JohnHenry]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Terrible argument. What exactly did comparing Rivers to Brooks accomplish? Brooks smoked him in tackles, was great in coverage and had 25 career picks which is sick for a LB. Thomas Howard had a 100 tackles in his only season here. Rivers hasn't even approached 100. He wasn't a total bust, but he was certainly a disappointment. It's time to move on. Any other team would.

Let’s find out exactly where we disagree…

Keep in mind, comparing Brooks’ numbers to Rivers’ is not absolutely practical simply because Brooks has played in many more games.



Anyway, here’s a summary of my post:

In general:
1. I used Brooks as a benchmark because he was certainly one of the best 4-3 WLBs in history. So for those that want to run him out of town, Brooks can provide a basis for your decision.
2. I defined the WLBs role in Cincinnati and Tampa Bays’ system (both use a 4-3 defense with under-shifted fronts.) In short, the WLBs job is to make tackles.

Do we disagree here?


In Rivers Favor:
1. Rivers per start tackle numbers are definitely less than Brooks but not completely awful in comparison. Again, I fully understand that Rivers’ data set is small when compared to Brooks.
2. Brooks didn’t have a lot of sacks and neither does Rivers. The point was to show that WLBs in 4-3 defenses typically don’t have a lot of sacks.
3. Rivers is very gifted athletically.

Do we disagree here?


Not in Rivers favor
1. I stated that Rivers won’t be mentioned for any All-Pro teams anytime soon.
2. I stated that Rivers problem is that he’s injured too often which can’t be tolerated too long.
3. I stated that compared to Howard, Rivers seems to play with less emotion and isn’t an “enforcer” like he needs to be - has no “Wow” factor to his game.
4. When compared to Howard, Rivers has no edge when it comes to athleticism.

Do we disagree here?


Regarding his draft position
1. I believe the 9th pick in the draft is too high for a WLB in a 4-3 under-shifted front.

Do we disagree here?


In short, I don’t agree with the OP. I don’t think it’s time to part ways with Rivers. I think he and Howard should battle it out in training camp for the starter role, while the other is kept for depth.

Do we disagree here?