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  #51  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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Originally Posted by WeezyBengal View Post
When they gave griffey that contract the farm system was half of what it was today. Also, Griffey got hurt pretty much every year so thats not a fair comparison. We dont know how that team would have been with a healthy junior in center field.

So, if the reds would have signed phillips to an extension and let votto walk you would have been completely fine with this?
It is a fair comparison, if Votto gets hurt or declines in production the Reds will be in the exact same boat. You can't predict their health or the future, it is Exactly why this is a such a risky move.

This also doesn't mean that the risk doesn't pay off and Votto plays like a HOFer for the rest of his career and evades injury.

I would have preferred the reds been far more conservative. Signed Phillips for 5 for less and brought in other good talent and had the money to sign our other talent down the road. Trade Votto or play out his contract and try to win now. Until this happened I was under the impression that they weren't going to keep him and that they were just in Win now mode while they had him.

I could be completely wrong in all of this as well. The reds could get a new TV deal, supplement his contract and still invest in other players and talent. I am not a FO guy, I just know the Reds are small market and have played small market with their Roster Payroll.

I don't understand why I have had to defend myself for wanting to keep Phillips. People saying he isn't elite talent is laughable IMO. Phillips is the easiest player to love on the reds, for on field performance, effort and attitude in the clubhouse and community.

“Yeah yeah. That’s what we do in Cincinnati. We go first to third.” Brandon Phillips all star game, still gives me chills hearing his enthusiasm.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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It is a fair comparison, if Votto gets hurt or declines in production the Reds will be in the exact same boat. You can't predict their health or the future, it is Exactly why this is a such a risky move.

This also doesn't mean that the risk doesn't pay off and Votto plays like a HOFer for the rest of his career and evades injury.

I would have preferred the reds been far more conservative. Signed Phillips for 5 for less and brought in other good talent and had the money to sign our other talent down the road. Trade Votto or play out his contract and try to win now. Until this happened I was under the impression that they weren't going to keep him and that they were just in Win now mode while they had him.

I could be completely wrong in all of this as well. The reds could get a new TV deal, supplement his contract and still invest in other players and talent. I am not a FO guy, I just know the Reds are small market and have played small market with their Roster Payroll.

I don't understand why I have had to defend myself for wanting to keep Phillips. People saying he isn't elite talent is laughable IMO. Phillips is the easiest player to love on the reds, for on field performance, effort and attitude in the clubhouse and community.

“Yeah yeah. That’s what we do in Cincinnati. We go first to third.” Brandon Phillips all star game, still gives me chills hearing his enthusiasm.
Agree...I hope for the best with Votto and he is great but in baseball you have to pay them the full amount..
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  #53  
Old 04-03-2012, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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Originally Posted by IgnoreME View Post
It is a fair comparison, if Votto gets hurt or declines in production the Reds will be in the exact same boat. You can't predict their health or the future, it is Exactly why this is a such a risky move.

This also doesn't mean that the risk doesn't pay off and Votto plays like a HOFer for the rest of his career and evades injury.

I would have preferred the reds been far more conservative. Signed Phillips for 5 for less and brought in other good talent and had the money to sign our other talent down the road. Trade Votto or play out his contract and try to win now. Until this happened I was under the impression that they weren't going to keep him and that they were just in Win now mode while they had him.

I could be completely wrong in all of this as well. The reds could get a new TV deal, supplement his contract and still invest in other players and talent. I am not a FO guy, I just know the Reds are small market and have played small market with their Roster Payroll.

I don't understand why I have had to defend myself for wanting to keep Phillips. People saying he isn't elite talent is laughable IMO. Phillips is the easiest player to love on the reds, for on field performance, effort and attitude in the clubhouse and community.

“Yeah yeah. That’s what we do in Cincinnati. We go first to third.” Brandon Phillips all star game, still gives me chills hearing his enthusiasm.
I sure hope they find a way to keep BP as well, he's the kind of special player people come out to see play because he's the total package. He makes spectacular plays in the field, but he can hit and run as well. The story of him tweeting he had nothing to do one day last year, and some kid tweets back to come to his LL game; and he shows up there and signs autographs for the kids was priceless. He went because he always wanted to remember where he came from. BP is what baseball is all about, I sure hope they find a way to keep him too.
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  #54  
Old 04-03-2012, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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Originally Posted by IgnoreME View Post
It is a fair comparison, if Votto gets hurt or declines in production the Reds will be in the exact same boat. You can't predict their health or the future, it is Exactly why this is a such a risky move.

This also doesn't mean that the risk doesn't pay off and Votto plays like a HOFer for the rest of his career and evades injury.

I would have preferred the reds been far more conservative. Signed Phillips for 5 for less and brought in other good talent and had the money to sign our other talent down the road. Trade Votto or play out his contract and try to win now. Until this happened I was under the impression that they weren't going to keep him and that they were just in Win now mode while they had him.

I could be completely wrong in all of this as well. The reds could get a new TV deal, supplement his contract and still invest in other players and talent. I am not a FO guy, I just know the Reds are small market and have played small market with their Roster Payroll.

I don't understand why I have had to defend myself for wanting to keep Phillips. People saying he isn't elite talent is laughable IMO. Phillips is the easiest player to love on the reds, for on field performance, effort and attitude in the clubhouse and community.

“Yeah yeah. That’s what we do in Cincinnati. We go first to third.” Brandon Phillips all star game, still gives me chills hearing his enthusiasm.
If I had won the lottery I would be a millionaire.
Griffey had an injury history coming in.
Votto does not.
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  #55  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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This is fantastic news! Meg is gonna be one happy girl! And so am I!!!!!!!


Ummmm...I'm a happy man....not girl.......
I made a scene in best buy when I found out. I am beyond excited.

The contract just confirms Walt is ready to win in Cincy, and holy hell so am I.

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Originally Posted by eoxyod View Post
Yep. Votto seems to have the personality of a wet carrot
No. Joey Votto just wants to play baseball. He doesn't need to call the Cards "little *****es" (which, they are, so good for B Phil).

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Originally Posted by IgnoreME View Post
It is a fair comparison, if Votto gets hurt or declines in production the Reds will be in the exact same boat. You can't predict their health or the future, it is Exactly why this is a such a risky move.

This also doesn't mean that the risk doesn't pay off and Votto plays like a HOFer for the rest of his career and evades injury.

I would have preferred the reds been far more conservative. Signed Phillips for 5 for less and brought in other good talent and had the money to sign our other talent down the road. Trade Votto or play out his contract and try to win now. Until this happened I was under the impression that they weren't going to keep him and that they were just in Win now mode while they had him.

I could be completely wrong in all of this as well. The reds could get a new TV deal, supplement his contract and still invest in other players and talent. I am not a FO guy, I just know the Reds are small market and have played small market with their Roster Payroll.

I don't understand why I have had to defend myself for wanting to keep Phillips. People saying he isn't elite talent is laughable IMO. Phillips is the easiest player to love on the reds, for on field performance, effort and attitude in the clubhouse and community.

“Yeah yeah. That’s what we do in Cincinnati. We go first to third.” Brandon Phillips all star game, still gives me chills hearing his enthusiasm.
I'm totally with you- to an extent. I love Brandon Phillips. I don't think the Reds are a World Series team without him, tbh. BUT, Votto is the better player, he's got a better bat.

And I still think it's possible to keep both of them. Bruce is locked up, and making next to nothing, Stubbs and Heisey won't be getting huge contracts for at least a couple more years. I think giving Brandon Phillips 15mil is doable. Hopefully Walt thinks so too. He always says he wants to stay in Cincy, let's see if he means it.
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  #56  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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I made a scene in best buy when I found out. I am beyond excited.

The contract just confirms Walt is ready to win in Cincy, and holy hell so am I.
You mean Bob Castellini right?

It's his money.... not Walt's.
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  #57  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:54 PM
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You mean Bob Castellini right?

It's his money.... not Walt's.
Obviously it's Bob's money, but Walt's doing. I think it's about how convincing Walt can be to get Castellini to front the cash monies.
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  #58  
Old 04-03-2012, 02:26 PM
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This is awesome! Hate to lose Brandon....but this is definately good stuff.
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  #59  
Old 04-03-2012, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

He is signed until he is 40. This deal begins after this season.
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  #60  
Old 04-03-2012, 03:10 PM
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I think they will get a contract with BP worked out.... if the fans show up.

My girlfriend and I will go to around 20 games this year.... do your part.

It is not like buying Bengals tickets where you have to invest a few hundred dollars to take a family to a game and have to worry about the weather. Buy some tickets in section 401 (which is a great view honestly) and you can take a family of 4 for around $50.
Right, I enjoy the left field bleachers....very economical, you can see the game just fine, as they're not very far up, and there's the Machine Room. I always go to a few each year, but I'll make more this season....it will be my daughter's first season, can't wait.
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  #61  
Old 04-03-2012, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

Yeah, this got me moist.
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  #62  
Old 04-03-2012, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

Since I am very much a fairweather Reds fan, as I will usually follow them when they are good, should I be excited about this? Even though I am not a fan of the MLB's non-salary cap league, and since we don't have the Yankee size of a payroll?
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  #63  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

Really glad Votto is going to stay, but I wish we could keep Phillips too. I'm going to miss him. It ****** me off that baseball doesn't have a salary cap and big market teams like the Yankees can afford to keep ridiculous amounts of talent but small market teams have to choose between their best players.


But anyway World Series 2012!
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  #64  
Old 04-04-2012, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post
He is signed until he is 40. This deal begins after this season.
Correct about the 40 part, but starts after 2013 season.

I am on vacation in a state park in florida and have to drive 15 miles to get any cell service. When I found out about this I was super excited. Was more excited when the news was that the 10 years included his current (2 more years) contract. 40 is awefully old in the national league. The no trade clause makes me nervous too.

Like all here, I hope we can still extend BP for a few more years too.

I wish Walt was here when "Uncle Carl" Linder was our owner. He had more $ than Steinbrenner and went to the grave same as all of us. Can't take it with you, but he coulda gotten us a world series. But, I digress....
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  #65  
Old 04-04-2012, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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This

I would rather keep Phillips a couple more years. I think Phillips is the real cog of this team, he is the face of the team where Joey is simply the best player. Joey does not have the charisma or fan interaction to draw crowds to GABP that phillips does.

I also don't agree with paying 1 person 20 - 30% of the entire payroll. Can anyone say Ken Griffey Jr?

P.S. The thread title is misleading, they haven't agreed to anything. The story is that they are nearing an agreement.
BP is one of my favorite players, but lets take off the rose colored glasses for one second. BP is a fan favorite, raised a reds fan and larkin fan, and loves being a red: but votto is more important. BP's defense is amazing, but he does have the habit of swinging at a lot of bad pitches and does go in slumps. Votto on the other hand is amazingly consistent throughout the season and on top of it the man is CLUTCH!!! Votto's OPS, Slugging pct, OBP, RISP average, and virtually every stastistic are at the top or near the top of the NL. Votto has super star ability and is glue in the middle of this order, he is our offensive dynamo. Phillips is definitely the second best player in the line up, but if you give a choice between signing a 28 year old first basemen for absurd money or a 32 year old 2nd basemen for most likely absurd money... I'm taking Votto all day. I personally believe that Castellini is intending on continuing to poney up the cash to keep this team together.

People forger that we have a very large and deep pocketed ownership group. Castellini is not the only member of our ownership group. I think this is a sign that the rest of the ownership group gave Bob and Phil the greenlight to keep Votto. I personally think that we will be working on a new marketing scheme, as well as renegotiating with FSN Ohio to get a better deal going.

Now if they follow the path of the Linder ownership, then I won't be happy, but I don't think Castellini is going to take that route. Time will tell...
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:16 AM
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http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnat.../tidbits1.html

"Forget the pennant. The Cincinnati Reds ' new ownership group has enough money, brainpower and clout to start a small city.

The group includes three Fortune 500 CEOs and six whose privately held companies rank among Cincinnati's 115 largest. The companies represented by these investors generate more than $62 billion in annual revenue. They give at least $5 million a year to charity and have lots of political clout."
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
If I had won the lottery I would be a millionaire.
Griffey had an injury history coming in.
Votto does not.
no Griffey did not have an injury history at all

when he went to Cincy he got the Hammy injury and couldnt shake it

he was healthy in Seattle


I wanted Joey to come home as his contract was up but there goes that
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:46 AM
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Keep in mind that big Arroyo contract is going to be coming off the books as is Rolens. I think we will have enough to keep Brandon around for a few years.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

Another thing to keep in mind is Votto's deal does not hit the big bucks until 2016 and by then will probably look like chump change.

I say there is about a 75% chance BP stays.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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no Griffey did not have an injury history at all

when he went to Cincy he got the Hammy injury and couldnt shake it

he was healthy in Seattle


I wanted Joey to come home as his contract was up but there goes that
He had knee issues from the **** turf in Seattle
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:32 AM
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He had knee issues from the **** turf in Seattle
Didn't he also miss some substantial time after breaking an ankle or something resulting from a collision with the fence?
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:17 PM
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Keep in mind that big Arroyo contract is going to be coming off the books as is Rolens. I think we will have enough to keep Brandon around for a few years.
If memory serves me correctly, Arroyo was reuped last offseason till 2013. So not too much more hot/cold bronson arroyo pitching. Dude is an innings hog, but he is frighteningly inconsistent.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:19 AM
Tommy Casanova 72-77 Tommy Casanova 72-77 is offline
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Default Re: Votto stays!

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This

I would rather keep Phillips a couple more years. I think Phillips is the real cog of this team, he is the face of the team where Joey is simply the best player. Joey does not have the charisma or fan interaction to draw crowds to GABP that phillips does.

I also don't agree with paying 1 person 20 - 30% of the entire payroll. Can anyone say Ken Griffey Jr?

P.S. The thread title is misleading, they haven't agreed to anything. The story is that they are nearing an agreement.

So you want a face and charisma as opposed to one of the best hitters in the NL?

OK....that's exactly the best way to build baseball team....with a face and charisma. WOW!

I mean you are seriously out of whack in your perspective. Phillips is good and I hope they can still keep him but Votto is an MVP candidate who can carry your offense

Last edited by Tommy Casanova 72-77; 04-08-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:25 AM
Tommy Casanova 72-77 Tommy Casanova 72-77 is offline
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He had knee issues from the **** turf in Seattle
NO he did not and never did. He broke his wrist going up against the wall in Seattle....that was it. NEVER had problems with his legs.....that must be some hazy memory for you. He never had knee problems even with that turf. I watched his games and listened to the Seattle broadcasters and they never talked about his knees ever being any problem.

They were not in 200 either...when he was here and played on the turf. He could have taken care of himself a little better yes.......but once those hammys started going out....it was just a snowball of problems.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:36 AM
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So you want a face and charisma as opposed to one of the best hitters in the NL?

OK....that's exactly the best way to build baseball team....with a face and charisma. WOW!

I mean you are seriously out of whack in your perspective. Phillips is good and I hope they can still keep him but Votto is an MVP candidate who can carry your offense
No read through my posts with a little more intent instead of just trying to bash.

I wanted Phillips over Votto, smaller contract, shorter term than to keep Votto for 10 + at a crippling 30% of payroll. Especially when you cannot predict the future of health or production.
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